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How Is LH FRA-SEA Doing?  
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

Does anyone have the load factors for this route?

I'm curious to see how it's moving along...

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9037 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7276 times:
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Quoting AAce24 (Thread starter):

I flew this route in May and flight was pretty full. From what I heard it is doing well, I don't have exact load factors, but it looks good so far.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7241 times:

I don't have exact numbers either but I have heard the FRA-SEA is doing pretty good for LH. The route is also becoming popular for travellers going from SEA to India.

User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

I heard from a friend trying to fly standby to SEA for a week...and couldn't get a single seat despite the fact having high ranks in the standby priority.

Looks like its doing quite good.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5831 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7188 times:

What equipment is used?

User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7160 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
What equipment is used?

a330-300


User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

That's good to hear.

Anyone think it will ever be upgraded to an A340?


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

A340 isn't really an upgrade. They seating configuration is exactly the same. Plus, the A333s all have PTVs whereas the A343s won't for some time.

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 6):
Anyone think it will ever be upgraded to an A340?

btw, I've heard the flight is doing quite well.


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7054 times:



Quoting GEG2RAP (Reply 5):
a330-300

Pretty long flight for an A333, does LH have the newer versions with higher gross weights?



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineFlynorth From Sweden, joined Mar 2008, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

Does anyone know if this has had any impact on yields/load factor on the CPH-SEA route by SK? That was a discussed when the FRA-SEA route was announced by LH.

User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6983 times:



Quoting LHUSA (Reply 7):
A340 isn't really an upgrade. They seating configuration is exactly the same. Plus, the A333s all have PTVs whereas the A343s won't for some time.

I was just meaning it's a rather long flight on an A330.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6968 times:



Quoting Flynorth (Reply 9):
Does anyone know if this has had any impact on yields/load factor on the CPH-SEA route by SK? That was a discussed when the FRA-SEA route was announced by LH.

Well, SFO-CPH and not SEA-CPH got the axe, so apparently nothing has changed... I was actually looking through the Port's statistics for April or May and SK's pax numbers actually went up for once, but it is still no indication of yield. And no one seems to have any information on how this route is doing sans the outdated article from 2005.


User currently offlineLH469 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6953 times:

Loads and yield are doing very well on the SEA-FRA route.

User currently offlineFlynorth From Sweden, joined Mar 2008, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6953 times:



Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 11):
Well, SFO-CPH and not SEA-CPH got the axe, so apparently nothing has changed... I was actually looking through the Port's statistics for April or May and SK's pax numbers actually went up for once, but it is still no indication of yield.

Good to hear for SK. Maybe LH and SK help each other to improve loads from europe to SEA, since they are both Star Alliance.

Quoting United777 (Reply 2):
I don't have exact numbers either but I have heard the FRA-SEA is doing pretty good for LH. The route is also becoming popular for travellers going from SEA to India.

Is there an Indian community in Seattle area? SK is supposed to start up CHP-DEL later this year (if all goes well). But i don´t know if it will connect well with their SEA flights.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6913 times:



Quoting Brons2 (Reply 8):
Pretty long flight for an A333, does LH have the newer versions with higher gross weights?

It is indeed, as NW doesn't even like to use their A333's from SEA/PDX-AMS



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6890 times:

There is a moderate Indian community in SEA due to the large number of tech companies here.


Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
It is indeed, as NW doesn't even like to use their A333's from SEA/PDX-AMS

True, although they are using a 333 on SEA-NRT three days a week (however I'm assuming any cargo or excess baggage could always be put on the other flight operated by the 332).

[Edited 2008-07-16 15:42:16]

User currently offlineLH469 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

There is a growing Indian community in SEA, but most passangers to/from India are traveling on corp. business, (Microsoft / WAMU etc).

User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5474 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6813 times:



Quoting AAce24 (Reply 10):
I was just meaning it's a rather long flight on an A330.

No problem at all, with the 233t MTOW. They can't carry structural payload, but you practically have to have a cargo of lead bricks to do that on an A330 anyway.


User currently offline747MegaTop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6731 times:



Quoting Flynorth (Reply 13):
Is there an Indian community in Seattle area? SK is supposed to start up CHP-DEL later this year (if all goes well). But i don´t know if it will connect well with their SEA flights.

There is; but don't know how the route will hold up given that -

1) AF,BA,LH & NW/KLM serve most of the major Indian cities between them from SEA with vey good connections from CDG,LHR,FRA,AMS. And, of course we need to add KE, CI, BR & OZ to the list serving either DEL or BOM or both from their respective hubs. In short, there may perhaps be adequate if not too much capacity on the SEA - India front.

2) CPH may not be the best O&D market to serve India, both, for tourism as well as business (I am may be wrong on this one, please feel free to correct).

Considering SAS will be serving DEL, I would put my money on YVR/YYZ/YYC-CPH-DEL/ATQ doing well considering the sizable North Indian population in and around Vancourver/Toronto/Calgary.

Off topic...I wonder how a SEA-HYD non stop with HYD feeder flight (with same routing on the return leg) would do on a 787. SEA is a tech city with a lot of traffic between SEA and HYD&BLR. Which aircraft(s) can do SEA-HYD non-stop without weight restrictions and how long would the flight take?


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5474 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6669 times:



Quoting 747MegaTop (Reply 18):
Which aircraft(s) can do SEA-HYD non-stop without weight restrictions and how long would the flight take?

About 15-16 hours. The 777-200ER, 787-9 or A350-800 could do it with weight restrictions. Only the A340-500 and 777-200LR could carry significant amounts of cargo.

All of those aircraft are too big, and point-to-point flights that long are exceedingly unlikely to make money with fuel costs the way they are. As unglamorous as it might be, going through a European or East Asian hub is much more cost-effective.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6299 times:



Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 11):
Quoting Flynorth (Reply 9):
Does anyone know if this has had any impact on yields/load factor on the CPH-SEA route by SK? That was a discussed when the FRA-SEA route was announced by LH.

Well, SFO-CPH and not SEA-CPH got the axe, so apparently nothing has changed...

Well, I haven't heard anything specific, but I'd imagine things must have changed for SK.. and that to the worse.. SK has been able to make SEA work significantly due to connecting traffic at CPH from all over Europe; not because of O&D traffic between the Pacific Northwest and Scandinavia - that O&D VFR traffic is fading rapidly, as the Scandinavian threads are getting more and more "vague" as the generations pass on. Maybe loads are unaffected, but I'd imagine that yields would be down - in order to still attract people via CPH from, say, FRA or CDG, now that there are direct links from these cities to SEA, you have to take a blow to your yield..

Quoting Flynorth (Reply 13):
Good to hear for SK. Maybe LH and SK help each other to improve loads from europe to SEA, since they are both Star Alliance.

As much as it's a friendly thought, I doubt that SK and LH are "together" on this - I don't think SK were too happy with their STAR partner the day LH announced SEA.. Remember, airlines like SK and LH are still only in an alliance, and that is not at all the same as a joint company - in an alliance, all parties still have a strong incentive to explore individual profitability opportunities, because there is no profit sharing at the end of the day. I think LH saw a profit opportunity on SEA and took it... not giving many thoughts to the impact on their STAR partner..

regards,

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9649 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6254 times:



Quoting AAce24 (Reply 6):

Anyone think it will ever be upgraded to an A340?

It would be interesting to see the A340-600 here in SEA. Although personally, of course I want to see it go to a 747.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 15):

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
It is indeed, as NW doesn't even like to use their A333's from SEA/PDX-AMS

True, although they are using a 333 on SEA-NRT three days a week (however I'm assuming any cargo or excess baggage could always be put on the other flight operated by the 332).

SEA-NRT is actually shorter than SEA-AMS.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFlynorth From Sweden, joined Mar 2008, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6171 times:



Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
As much as it's a friendly thought, I doubt that SK and LH are "together" on this - I don't think SK were too happy with their STAR partner the day LH announced SEA.. Remember, airlines like SK and LH are still only in an alliance, and that is not at all the same as a joint company - in an alliance, all parties still have a strong incentive to explore individual profitability opportunities, because there is no profit sharing at the end of the day. I think LH saw a profit opportunity on SEA and took it... not giving many thoughts to the impact on their STAR partner..

Just as you say, LH saw an business opportunity and went in there. This means that the demand in flying SEA-europe is greater (hopefully) than just SK flying.

What I meant is that SK and LH through the alliance overall can offer better connections from SEA to europe and therefore making flying from SEA more interesting for americans going to europe, and also the other way around, flying to SEA from europe. So that together they make SEA more interesting as "hub" for more people, increasing the traffic.

That was my thought, rather than sharing the current pax flow.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6111 times:



Quoting Flynorth (Reply 22):
What I meant is that SK and LH through the alliance overall can offer better connections from SEA to europe and therefore making flying from SEA more interesting for americans going to europe, and also the other way around, flying to SEA from europe. So that together they make SEA more interesting as "hub" for more people, increasing the traffic.

Agree, there could be some Star-alliance synergies here.. but I'm a bit concerned that it's enough to "compensate" SK for their loss in, if not volume, then yield.. I'd say SK is better off closing SEA and starting SFO right away, but of course easier (and cheaper!) said than done..!

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6078 times:



Quoting AAce24 (Reply 10):

I was just meaning it's a rather long flight on an A330.

Actually FRA-SEA is not so long compared with other US west coast or mid west destinations. Don't forget that the European continent is much more north then the North-American continent. So to get to SEA you can fly a far northern route without worrying to fly back south.


25 AAce24 : True, but lets look at the other midwest/western US routes from LH. DEN: A346 DFW: A343 SFO & LAX: 744 Granted the demand may be higher on those rout
26 RwSEA : Yes, but SEA is a shorter routing than most of those, and also, DEN and SFO/LAX are star alliance hubs (and SFO/LAX are much larger destinations).
27 EVA777SEA : I'm not so sure about that. Not only is it a large jump in capacity, but the FRA based A346's don't have any first class, as opposed to the A333's th
28 YULYMX : FRA-SEA must be a reach for an A333... A332 will do it with ease... Air Canada does YVR LHR with an A333 and it is a reach
29 Post contains images EBGflyer : CPH-SEA is 4868 mi FRA-SEA is 5108 mi SK uses an A343 on the CPH-SEA route. Always wonderinged why they didn't use their A333. Perhaps due to lots of
30 Viscount724 : KE uses the 333 ICN-PRG, 5131 mi. AC also uses the 333 YVR-NRT which is just 49 mi. shorter than YVR-LHR (4674 vs 4723).
31 Post contains images Konstantinkoll : FRA-SEA is almost exactly as long as FRA-DEN:
32 CRJ900 : Doesn't NWA has 298 seats in their A333? LH has only 221 seats or so in their A333, so there's quite a weight saving there, even if the First class s
33 Egcarter : Microsoft's European Development Center is in Copenhagen...thus providing some traffic for SEA-CPH for SK.
34 Viscount724 : Correct. NW 333 2-classes 34/264, total 298. LH 333 3-classes 8/48/165, total 221.
35 787seattle : According to the Seattle Times a day or two ago, China Airlines will be cutting this route in September (around then).
36 Ballsdeep : Here is the article: China Airlines to drop Seattle-Taipei flights. By Carol Pucci Seattle Times travel writer Taiwanese carrier China Airlines will
37 Dutchdragon : Speaking of which, how is the new Air France flight between SEA AND CDG and v.v., does anyone know ?
38 EVA777SEA : Supposedly it was already making money within about a month. We'll see if FlySSC shows up.
39 AA737-823 : Wow... that's not a lot of seats for a very large airplane. I mean, Continental once flew 222 seats in their 757-300s. Granted, it's down to 216 now,
40 YVRLTN : IT are supposed to be starting YVR - India soon and AI and 9W are supposedly interested too. Both AC & LH fly from YVR & YYC, so theres Star feed via
41 United777 : [quote=Burnsie28,reply=14]Is there an Indian community in Seattle area? SK is supposed to start up CHP-DEL later this year (if all goes well). But i d
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