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Is DL Pulling Out Of LGW?  
User currently offlineSwissair4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8430 times:

Is DL completely pulling out of LGW?

If so, when?

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2489 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8413 times:



Quoting Swissair4ever (Thread starter):
Is DL completely pulling out of LGW?

No.

ATL and CVG still offer DL metal to LGW.

DL will terminate JFK-LGW flights on September 1st.



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8331 times:

NW still operates to LGW so the DL operation there will grow post merger.

Unless DL is able to secure a significant number of new LHR slots, they will continue to fly to LGW because they have to in order to meet the demand for seats to the city. And even if they did have enough slots at LHR, there is probably still potential for some LGW flying.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8285 times:



Quoting Swissair4ever (Thread starter):
Is DL completely pulling out of LGW?

Not anytime soon
still have
ATL-LGW 2x daily
CVG-LGW 1x daily



yep.
User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

NW flies a 757 DTW-LGW, I would think that this flight would be on the chopping block post merger. Especially if CVG has a flight. This is how 2 hubs will co-exist so close to each other. What are NW loads for the LGW, and LHR flights from DTW?

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8147 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
NW still operates to LGW so the DL operation there will grow post merger.

Unless DL is able to secure a significant number of new LHR slots, they will continue to fly to LGW because they have to in order to meet the demand for seats to the city. And even if they did have enough slots at LHR, there is probably still potential for some LGW flying.

Well, yes, except that NW already offers 3 flights daily to LHR themselves. I could see LGW getting shut down all together if another ATL slot can be secured.

Regarding CVG-LGW, well once CVG is gone in the near future, there will be no more need for this flight.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8117 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 5):
Regarding CVG-LGW, well once CVG is gone in the near future, there will be no more need for this flight.

you fail to miss the fact that DL's CVG international operation is STILL highly profitable and will be even with the RJ cancellations that are coming - because those markets don't provide much int'l traffic.

Businesses don't walk away from profitable business just because there appears to be duplication in their networks in the eyes of some outsiders.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8055 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):

you fail to miss the fact that DL's CVG international operation is STILL highly profitable and will be even with the RJ cancellations that are coming - because those markets don't provide much int'l traffic.

Businesses don't walk away from profitable business just because there appears to be duplication in their networks in the eyes of some outsiders.

All signs continue to point to the CVG hub being eliminated post-Merger. And flights from MSP, DTW, and JFK to LHR make CVG redundant, especially when the costs of keeping a station open for 1-2 daily flights are factored in.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7963 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Not anytime soon
still have
ATL-LGW 2x daily
CVG-LGW 1x daily



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 1):

ATL and CVG still offer DL metal to LGW

JFK-LGW still operates and will end in a few months..

Flight Delta Air Lines 5
From New York JFK NY US (JFK) Terminal 3
Departure Time 1730
To London Gatwick GB (LGW) Terminal N
Arrival Time 0625
Duration 7h55m
Meal D
Aircraft Type 752


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2489 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7538 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 8):
JFK-LGW still operates and will end in a few months..

uhummm....!

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 1):
DL will terminate JFK-LGW flights on September 1st.




us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7489 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
you fail to miss the fact that DL's CVG international operation is STILL highly profitable and will be even with the RJ cancellations that are coming - because those markets don't provide much int'l traffic.

It may be profitable, but according to the DOT the local passengers on the plane are only between 40 and 55 per day over the last year. So those pesky little RJs are the only thing standing between you and...

"NA NA NA NAH NA NA NA NAH, Hey Goodbye"

Makes me remember that show Remote Control on MTV, but I digress.


User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

CVG will still have flights to BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MSP, DTW, LAX..Thats probably it, maybe MCO.

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7352 times:
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Delta is pulling out of JFK to LGW but keeps Atlanta & CVG to LGW.

User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 6445 times:



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 11):
CVG will still have flights to BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MSP, DTW, LAX..Thats probably it, maybe MCO.

Really?? When was this announced?


727forever



727forever
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6313 times:



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 11):
CVG will still have flights to BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MSP, DTW, LAX..Thats probably it, maybe MCO.

Not SFO, SEA, PDX, SNA and SAN?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6197 times:
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CVG is so gone it is not even funny. Wake up it is DFW all over again.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Given the reportedly declining passenger experience at LHR (likelihood of delays, dated terminal facilities, etc.), it seems reasonable that DL would continue to service LGW post-merger even if they can switch all flights to LHR using NW's slots. It also seems plausible that they'd want to offer travelers more options by serving both airports. Aren't the loads and yields on the ATL-LGW flights still good even since LHR service started?

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5347 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 7):
CVG redundant, especially when the costs of keeping a station open for 1-2 daily flights are factored in.

1-2 daily flights? Even after the widely expected draw down of CVG, I still see it operating at at least a focus city because of it's location in the NE. DFW was a different story, again because of its location.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5323 times:



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 16):
Given the reportedly declining passenger experience at LHR (likelihood of delays, dated terminal facilities, etc.), it seems reasonable that DL would continue to service LGW post-merger even if they can switch all flights to LHR using NW's slots. It also seems plausible that they'd want to offer travelers more options by serving both airports. Aren't the loads and yields on the ATL-LGW flights still good even since LHR service started?

One of the main reasons for keeping LGW-ATL is the slots Delta have.

LGW departures are around 9 and 11am whilst LHR leaves at 125PM.

NW on the other hand leaves LHR very early at 850 and 1010 for DTW and MSP. NW's current schedule from LHR is very poor in terms of connections with any connection to the west coast requiring a minimum of 3.5 hours between flights. That is a main reason why LGW has been kept, as NW32 continues to connect extremely well in DTW.

Once Delta and NW merge,. it would not be that surprising to see the DTW and MSP slots be switched for ATL (and subject to getting 1 or 2 more slots at LHR) seeing the entire LGW operation go away.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
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Quoting Runway23 (Reply 18):

NW on the other hand leaves LHR very early at 850 and 1010 for DTW and MSP. NW's current schedule from LHR is very poor in terms of connections with any connection to the west coast requiring a minimum of 3.5 hours between flights. That is a main reason why LGW has been kept, as NW32 continues to connect extremely well in DTW.

Hey free LHR slots don't come along every day, NW could buy slots like Continental for fifty million dollars a slot pair, CAL purchased four pairs.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17500 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5131 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
you fail to miss the fact that DL's CVG international operation is STILL highly profitable and will be even with the RJ cancellations that are coming - because those markets don't provide much int'l traffic.

It's so profitable they cut 23% of the operation and downgraded CVGLGW to a 757? How does that figure?  Confused



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5122 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
CVG is so gone it is not even funny. Wake up it is DFW all over again.

I for one think CVG will de-emphasized post merger, but then I also thought AA would have pulled the plug at STL a long time ago. If the yields are there, they will stay in whatever markets necessary to make money, including London, redundant with DTW, JFK, et al or not.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5110 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 21):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
CVG is so gone it is not even funny. Wake up it is DFW all over again.

I for one think CVG will de-emphasized post merger, but then I also thought AA would have pulled the plug at STL a long time ago. If the yields are there, they will stay in whatever markets necessary to make money, including London, redundant with DTW, JFK, et al or not.

I agree that some key markets will remain as long as they turn a profit. Though with NW's operation in IND being so close and DTW right around the corner, I think DL will cut DL stuff first so they can say no NW service was affected.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5055 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 14):
Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 11):
CVG will still have flights to BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MSP, DTW, LAX..Thats probably it, maybe MCO.

Not SFO, SEA, PDX, SNA and SAN?

Or SLC?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5012 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
It's so profitable they cut 23% of the operation and downgraded CVGLGW to a 757? How does that figure? Confused

CVGLGW has ALWAYS been profitable. A 757 downgrade in the off-peak season when you have cut such a huge amount of feed out of CVG is perfectly rational and in this case is the proper move to maintain that history of profitability. The capacity reduction is a proactive move, not a reactive move.


25 Humberside : In normal circumstances, yes. In the current climate the cost of keeping two LON stations open probably isn't worth it, if DL can get the extra LHR s
26 Luv2fly : Spin it however you want it still spells numbered days for the CVG hub.
27 Lambert747 : ??? Why would Continental Airlines sell Heathrow slots to NWA? Gatwick will be left open as long as Delta Air Lines can make a profit. Remember peopl
28 727forever : I didn't realize that you had a direct line to Glen H. As long as the yields are there it doesn't matter what other cities are doing. There are quite
29 Runway23 : Nobody said they were free. You could see KL reduce their schedule to AMS a bit further in order to accommodate new flights. Just like DLNW-AFKL may
30 Luv2fly : Those same Fortune 500 companies are the same ones DL has been screwing for years with its high fares. They will be more then glad to see a new carri
31 Sxf24 : Like who? And why now?
32 Lambert747 : Northwest Airlines and Alaska Airlines codeshare at Seattle..
33 DeltaL1011man : This is Delta not American ATL-LGW was DL's first true TATL route (L1011-200 leased from TWA) I don't see it going anywhere. Most the time the big co
34 RwSEA : I was referring to the LGW station having 1-2 daily flights, not CVG.
35 LHR777 : They wouldn't. I think what he means is that CAL purchased 56 weekly LHR slots (28 arrival/28 departure) for $209 million, and NW could do the same.
36 Mayor : Oh, please! Are these the same corporations that have travel departments that NEGOTIATE fares from the airlines?
37 ManchesterMAN : Yeh, I'm trying that one out next month flying LHR-SEA-FAI all after a 7 hour day at work in London. I must really hate myself
38 WorldTraveler : I wouldn't assume anything. There will never be another carrier that will offer nonstop service from CVG to a city across the pond and alot of other
39 LHR777 : I very much doubt that CO's slots at LHR would form any part of CO's exit from SkyTeam. Think about it - CO purchased the slots fair and square - the
40 Cubsrule : STL still has 120 flights to 40 or so cities from AA, and yet it lacks transatlantic service. The local market is also well larger than Cincinnati's.
41 Luv2fly : CVG days as a hub and or even a focus city are numbered.
42 Lambert747 : CVG, MEM, DFW same fate with Delta Air Lines...
43 Cubsrule : Why wouldn't DL have a focus city at CVG?
44 Bobnwa : Why would CO sell them to NW if they just bought Did you forget that KL/AF/NW/DL have anti trust immunity which allows them to share financially on al
45 MaverickM11 : I think as soon as DL can get LHR slots for their LGW flights they will move. I just don't see any reason for any US carrier to fly to both LHR and L
46 DeltaL1011man : PDX,ORD,FRA,LAX,BOS.....ok I'm done Like I said.........It wont be going anywhere soon. LHR isn't the great airport like a.net makes it out to be and
47 Flighty : On the contrary, London is such a big market that I think nearly every American legacy carrier will continue to serve both airports. The issue is far
48 FlyPNS1 : I'll agree that the hub is toast. However, I think CVG could very well survive as a focus city. I could see nonstop to BOS (3x), LGA (3x), JFK (2x),
49 Cubsrule : It could probably sustain something like 50-60 daily flights on O&D alone, though if PIT and CMH can't support 1 TATL flight without hubs, I have a h
50 MaverickM11 : To me any airline that does not have a major partner at a LON airport, which Skyteam does not, should be indifferent to operating out of LGW or LHR.
51 DeltaL1011man : The only ones it that I can see leaving LGW is the ones that have alliance hub at LHR. It wouldn't shock me to see CO drop LGW for LHR due to the *A
52 Planesarecool : As long as the Cleveland link remains, I can't see that happening. I just can't see Continental splashing out on LHR slots and then sending 757s. If
53 FlyPNS1 : I would argue that CVG has a stronger corporate/business presence than PIT thus allowing for more transatlantic flights. CMH has no real dominant car
54 Jetlanta : You are right on. The dirty little secret with CVG is that local business class demand is very high in trans-Atlantic markets. There are several loca
55 Lambert747 : Even with the CVG pull down AMS, LGW, FRA, and CDG can still all be maintained using the 757-200 frames. Is that even possible?
56 Jetlanta : Well, if it gets cut anymore, I doubt FRA for sure. The other three will be a function of the ultimate size of CVG and the actual amount of business
57 Cubsrule : I might buy that to get us from 0 TATL flights to 1, but I have a hard time believing that Pittsburgh's business community is so week or Cincinnati's
58 FlyPNS1 : It's not just that PIT's business community is weaker, but that PIT's primary carrier (US) is also quite weak. Consider PDX which is now supporting t
59 Cubsrule : You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. You cite "weak local carrier" as a problem in PIT. AS doesn't fly transatlantically. I'm confused.
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