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DL 737 Orders  
User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

I know they are accepting the 10 73G's on order, but as I understand it, they are selling the -800s they have on firm order as they roll outta Renton.

With everyone rushing to retire their least fuel efficient aircraft, such as AA accelerating their 737 deliveries to retire some of their MD80s, why is Delta selling their 737-800s as soon as they roll off the line?

Seems at the current price of fuel, DL could significantly reduce their fuel costs by swapping out some of their MD88s for 738s?


Go Cubs!
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

The MD-88 have less seats, so you can still keep your revenue up compared to a larger 737-800. From what I can see, The MD-88's also don't fly as many hours as the used to. Many are probably paid for and the have had recent checks, so I would assume it makes cents wise to still fly them on the shorter to medium segemnts. While the 737-800 is more fuel efficent, I don't think the MD-88 does that badly on the shorter (less then 750 mile) segments.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4060 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5167 times:



Quoting Highliner2 (Thread starter):
Seems at the current price of fuel, DL could significantly reduce their fuel costs by swapping out some of their MD88s for 738s?

The NW merger is also a factor here since there will be many A320 aircraft that can be redeployed as both networks are meshed together and aircraft most suitable for routes are assigned. I look at DL/NW as likely retireing the remaining MDD aircraft (DC-9, MD-88, MD-90) within just a few years, the DC-9s going to the desert first and very quickly.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

In reality, I think the issue is that DL simply can't afford the 738s. They can sell them off and gain a small profit as opposed to a huge out-of-pocket cost. For the time being, even though the M88s are are gas-guzzlers, the capital cost of the 738s is too much. The 738s would have started replacing the M88s, but that has to be deferred given the current conditions. It's a shame too, since DL is probably more guilty of anyone else in relying on RJs where they aren't necessarily needed.

User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4996 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
The NW merger is also a factor here since there will be many A320 aircraft that can be redeployed as both networks are meshed together and aircraft most suitable for routes are assigned. I look at DL/NW as likely retireing the remaining MDD aircraft (DC-9, MD-88, MD-90) within just a few years, the DC-9s going to the desert first and very quickly.

You could not be more wrong. DL agreed to sell the 738's back in DEC. 2006. The cost of these 738's was negotiated back in 1997, the profits that DL is making on these sales is enough to pay for the 10 73W's. Don't look for DL to retire MDD within just a few years either, 88's will incrementally be retired or returned to lessor count should be 110 at years end. More MD-90's could very well be on the way, as many as 20 from China Eastern and Southern. Yes DC-9's will be retired, but not as fast as you think. They fit a need at DL the 100-110 seat a/c.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
In reality, I think the issue is that DL simply can't afford the 738s.

How can you justify that statement, when DL is buying 10 77L's, yes they increased orders to 10 and there will probably be more. They are purchasing 10 73W's. That is 20 a/c brand new by Q1 2010. Just so you know, DL also has 2 738's coming in 2010 with options for 60 more and rolling options of 120, yes and they are at a very good price.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4928 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 4):
Yes DC-9's will be retired, but not as fast as you think. They fit a need at DL the 100-110 seat a/c.

Well, I am pretty sure that after the merger, the new Delta will evaluate both the Embraer E-190/195 and the Bombardier CSeries. This should fill in the void left by retiring the DC-9-30s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4917 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 4):
How can you justify that statement, when DL is buying 10 77L's, yes they increased orders to 10 and there will probably be more. They are purchasing 10 73W's. That is 20 a/c brand new by Q1 2010. Just so you know, DL also has 2 738's coming in 2010 with options for 60 more and rolling options of 120, yes and they are at a very good price.

I can justify it by saying that they realize that long-haul growth is more important at the moment than expanding domestic capacity or replacing planes that don't absolutely have to be replaced. Adding 10 777LRs let's them immediately add new long-haul routes on which they can garner higher yields than they can domestically. New 738s allow them to add domestic capacity (which is the opposite of what they're trying to do), or replace older planes (which would be nice, but isn't absolutely essential at the present time). Also, some of these 777LRs were converted from previous orders (and the 777s were deferred for many years as it is).

And yes, they are taking 2 738s, but the rest are being immediately sold. This was discussed during the bankruptcy process as a way for DL to make a profit on the planes and also to reduce future capital expenditure. Plainly said, there's no way DL or any other US major can afford to launch a long-term fleet renewal plan given the current state of the industry.


User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4876 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
Well, I am pretty sure that after the merger, the new Delta will evaluate both the Embraer E-190/195 and the Bombardier CSeries.

Considering the E-190/195 rate of pay is included in the past and current DL pilot contract and as well as the new NW pilot contract, I would say yes on this fleet type. CSeries would be nice, we will have to wait and see. No matter which one or both show up, it will not happen overnight, so no I don't see the DC-9's rushed to the desert like some think, they may be expensive to operate, but they are paid for.


Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
In reality, I think the issue is that DL simply can't afford the 738s.

I guess I misunderstood this statement then. Because this is what I was commenting on.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Delta could easily replace the M88s with 737-700s on many routes. They hold 124 pax which is about 20 less than the M88, however the fuel cost is considerably lower. Or they could just take deivery of these -800s, on which the fuel cost is still lower than the K88, and they would offer much longer range/capability and about 15 extra seats.

User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

It is because they are going to buy Airbus......................................... A-318 and A319 to replace the MD.

 banghead  .....................this is the easiest explanation.........................  banghead 


Almost always easiest explanation is the good one.


It could be the most shocking order ever......... Could you imagine???


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4260 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Delta could easily replace the M88s with 737-700s on many routes. They hold 124 pax which is about 20 less than the M88, however the fuel cost is considerably lower. Or they could just take deivery of these -800s, on which the fuel cost is still lower than the K88, and they would offer much longer range/capability and about 15 extra seats.

Or they could keep the MD-88's, which have a significantly lower ownership cost than any new aircraft and require no capital outlay. Fuel is only part of the story.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4127 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 4):
How can you justify that statement, when DL is buying 10 77L's, yes they increased orders to 10 and there will probably be more. They are purchasing 10 73W's. That is 20 a/c brand new by Q1 2010. Just so you know, DL also has 2 738's coming in 2010 with options for 60 more and rolling options of 120, yes and they are at a very good price.

hmmm 60 options and about 50 88s that will gone by 2016........

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
The NW merger is also a factor here since there will be many A320 aircraft that can be redeployed as both networks are meshed together and aircraft most suitable for routes are assigned. I look at DL/NW as likely retireing the remaining MDD aircraft (DC-9, MD-88, MD-90) within just a few years, the DC-9s going to the desert first and very quickly.

Not that many Airbus getting moved around. Look for more MD-90s and some of the older Airbus going away.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 6):
And yes, they are taking 2 738s, but the rest are being immediately sold. This was discussed during the bankruptcy process as a way for DL to make a profit on the planes and also to reduce future capital expenditure. Plainly said, there's no way DL or any other US major can afford to launch a long-term fleet renewal plan given the current state of the industry.

DL did it to by the 73Gs.



yep.
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3189 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 9):

Along with the 100 A380's they'll order.



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3177 times:



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 12):
Along with the 100 A380's they'll order.

Good one!

Either way, there is absolutely no way Delta will order the A380. The gates at ATL are not large enough to support it.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3049 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 12):
Along with the 100 A380's they'll order.

Good one!

Either way, there is absolutely no way Delta will order the A380. The gates at ATL are not large enough to support it.

Couldn't you see the sarcasm oozing from Atlanta's comment??  wink 

On a side note, aren't 738s about 15-20% more efficient than the Maddogs??



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Does anyone know when the first 73G is secheduled to show up in ATL?


Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2766 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 14):
On a side note, aren't 738s about 15-20% more efficient than the Maddogs??

Yes, and carry more people.

Last time I was in the cockpit of an Md88 we were going from TPA-JFK. About 1 hour into the flight I was in the cockpit, and specifically remember the FF was at 3500lb per engine...so basically 7000lb per hour for both. Now, a couple of days ago coming in from SFO to JFK, again about 1 hour into the flight I went up to the cockpit, exept this was a 757. And the fuel flow was about the same, 3500lb per engine...so 7000lb. So if a 757 is getting the same fuel efficiency as an MD88, I can only imagine what a -800 is getting, considering that 757 technology is 15-20 years old!!!


User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2698 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
Look for more MD-90s and some of the older Airbus going away.

If this is true... well, the future for AIrbus in North America is not looking good.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2639 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 16):
So if a 757 is getting the same fuel efficiency as an MD88, I can only imagine what a -800 is getting, considering that 757 technology is 15-20 years old!!!

I'm not sure what you were looking at, but MD88 and 757 fuel burn is nowhere near the same. And on top of that 757 technology is almost 30 years old at this point.


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1831 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 9):
It is because they are going to buy Airbus......................................... A-318 and A319 to replace the MD.

.....................this is the easiest explanation.........................


Almost always easiest explanation is the good one.


It could be the most shocking order ever......... Could you imagine???

I love this joke.  laughing 



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1773 times:



Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 15):

July 25, 2008 delivery flight.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1763 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Either way, there is absolutely no way Delta will order the A380. The gates at ATL are not large enough to support it

I guess sarcasm isnt your strong suit, is it?  Wink



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1707 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 18):
I'm not sure what you were looking at, but MD88 and 757 fuel burn is nowhere near the same. And on top of that 757 technology is almost 30 years old at this point.

I was looking at the SA)">FF gauges....fuel flow...and actually had a lengthy conversation on both instances with the pilots up there...so yes, on these 2 occasions the SA)">FF was the SAME!

Oh, I am pretty sure I pointed out that the 757 technology is about 20 years old, therefore saying...

Quoting OOer (Reply 16):
So if a 757 is getting the same fuel efficiency as an MD88, I can only imagine what a -800 is getting, considering that 757 technology is 15-20 years old!!!



User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1580 times:



Quoting Aircellist (Reply 17):
If this is true... well, the future for AIrbus in North America is not looking good.

I'm only talking about 5 or 6 A320s.



yep.
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1517 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 18):
I'm not sure what you were looking at, but MD88 and 757 fuel burn is nowhere near the same. And on top of that 757 technology is almost 30 years old at this point.

The 757 could have been light, and/or flying slow... I'd buy that a light 757 and a heavy MD88 might burn the same volume of fuel at cruise.

The 757 airframe is 25 years old, but the engines are not. Both P&W and Rolls significantly improved their respective 757 engines over the life of the aircraft, with the latest improvements coming in the mid-'90s.

And the 757 was extraordinarily efficient when it was introduced. There wasn't a clearly more efficient alternative until the A321 and 738/9 came along, also in the mid-'90s.


25 LACA773 : Has anyone seen the first 73G or have pictures of it?
26 Post contains links and images Flynavy : N301DQ and N302DQ have both rolled out at Renton. N301DQ: N302DQ (in the background, picture is actually of the new USN P-8 Poseidon): From Andrew Si
27 DeltaL1011man : Any word on if they have paint yet?
28 Flynavy : Haven't heard/seen anything yet.
29 LACA773 : Thanks for the photos Flynavy. I apreciate you posting them. Best LACA773
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