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Allegiant Cuts Five FLL Routes  
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Pretty large cutback IMO. Especially when Allegiant only has some 12 routes out of FLL to begin with.

From http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8699461:

Quote:

More cutbacks in service are hitting Chattanooga's Metropolitan Airport. Allegiant Air is ending service between Chattanooga and Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Chattanooga is one of five losing service to Ft. Lauderdale.

Those cities include:

* Allentown, PA
* Chattanooga
* Greensboro, N.C.
* Huntington, W.V.
* Tri-Cities, TN

Anyone with reservations for September 7th and beyond should contact Allegiant officials.




Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

This is a side question to this topic. I know Allegiant selects routes carefully and only serves them a couple times per week usually. And they will be the first to pull out when a route is not doing well.

Does anyone know their criteria for axing a route? How long does a route need to be doing badly before they decide to eliminate it? They only want to fly when and where people want to go but is it likely that they ever cut a route prematurely because of a small sag in traffic numbers?


User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3888 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 1):
Does anyone know their criteria for axing a route?

Well I would guess like over 70 or 80% load factor, and obviously it must be profitable, as GRB service moved to ATW due to the fact that GRB's usage fees would make service unprofitable.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Speaking of Allegiant. How about their success in Youngstown?

Link: http://yngair.com/2008/07/yng-allegiant-succeed-with-high-oil-prices/

The June load factors were at 97%, +3% above the Allegiant average, and the Airport Administration says the July load factors will be close to 99%. YNG is doing something they had to do, and that was fill seats when oil prices skyrocketed. People in the Mahoning Valley are looking to fly closer to home to save on the gas they'd spend to fly out of Akron, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh.

If YNG continues to succeed at these levels, Allegiant needs to consider adding service to another city or perhaps adding another flight come December. YNG is doing everything they had to do: and that is fill seats. Now let's hope they get rewarded for it!

Steve Bowser, YNG Airport Administrator said this

Quote:
"Quite frankly, I and the board at Youngstown consider this an opportunity to prove ourselves. We're equal distance from two major metropolitan areas and why not consider us to consolidate your services in Youngstown, mitigating some costs and costs to the customers.", explains Steve Bowser, Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport.




I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3780 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 1):
Does anyone know their criteria for axing a route? How long does a route need to be doing badly before they decide to eliminate it? They only want to fly when and where people want to go but is it likely that they ever cut a route prematurely because of a small sag in traffic numbers?

They don't just cut a route due to a small sag in traffic numbers, there is much more that goes into it. There are many factors that Allegiant, as well as other airlines, consider before axing an origin city or a specific route. Some factors include a fuel vendor deciding to charge above market rates for fuel, poor advanced bookings, lower than expected ancillary revenue, competition from nearby cities or other carriers, and airport operating fee increases.

I'm not sure what the exact criteria is for axing a route however the fact Allegiant is pulling 5 out of 8 FLL routes likely indicates the focus city is not performing as well as anticipated. Hope they can get it turned around.



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

I'd be interested in this in terms of the larger picture at FLL. I know other airlines have cut routes at FLL.

This is a question for MAH or someone else familiar with FLL. Is the leisure market in the area slowing?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3719 times:



Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
They don't just cut a route due to a small sag in traffic numbers, there is much more that goes into it. There are many factors that Allegiant, as well as other airlines, consider before axing an origin city or a specific route. Some factors include a fuel vendor deciding to charge above market rates for fuel, poor advanced bookings, lower than expected ancillary revenue, competition from nearby cities or other carriers, and airport operating fee increases.

Yeah I was just wondering if anyone knew Allegiant's criteria since the way they operate is a lot different than most airlines. If you only have 2 or 3 flights a week to a city you have a lot less information to go off of and they've been known to cut out routes that aren't performing and won't just stay there to just do it.

So I was just curious about Allegient specifically.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3718 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 1):

Does anyone know their criteria for axing a route?

The criteria for G4 to axe a route: unprofitable and without a projected quick reversal.

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 2):

Well I would guess like over 70 or 80% load factor, and obviously it must be profitable, as GRB service moved to ATW due to the fact that GRB's usage fees would make service unprofitable.

Load factor and even fares are less of importance for G4 than most carriers. G4 runs the airline at a slight loss, but more than makes up for it with insanely high ancillary revenue. That is the ticket to profitability for them. The lack of reported ancillary revenue makes it hard to analyze their performance.  Sad

As far as the GRB/ATW relocation. If the routes were unprofitable at GRB, they will not be profitable at ATW. Airport costs are a relatively marginal expense that rarely determine profitability. I believe the move was more or less an example to other airports thinking of upping their G4 fees.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4985 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Too bad they are cutting out of FLL. But, on the brighter side of the news, it obviously frees up a few planes to look at other markets.

Has there been anymore talk about Everett Washington? Would love to see G4 come a little closer than BLI. I would no doubt fly them if they came a bit closer. Right now, it is not econonimcal to drive to BLI.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4364 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3684 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

This won't be a huge loss to some of these cities, Allegiant has an extremely poor on time performance out of FLL, as well as high cancellation rate.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3626 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9):
This won't be a huge loss to some of these cities, Allegiant has an extremely poor on time performance out of FLL, as well as high cancellation rate.

HTS will definately notice it. Its a noticeable percentage of their seats.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3516 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
Has there been anymore talk about Everett Washington? Would love to see G4 come a little closer than BLI. I would no doubt fly them if they came a bit closer. Right now, it is not econonimcal to drive to BLI.

I understand Allegiant officials visited PAE a few weeks ago and since then there have been 12 to 14 phone conversations between G4 and Paine administration.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3420 times:



Quoting National757 (Thread starter):

Chattanooga, TN
Tri-Cities, TN

at least TYS is going strong, hasn't really been hit by any airline cuts, even gains a freq. to ATL...

Sad to see CHA lose more, but they will rebound, plus they are still ahead of where they were a few years ago



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



Quoting Tys777 (Reply 12):
Quoting National757 (Thread starter):

Chattanooga, TN
Tri-Cities, TN

at least TYS is going strong, hasn't really been hit by any airline cuts, even gains a freq. to ATL...

Sad to see CHA lose more, but they will rebound, plus they are still ahead of where they were a few years ago

I'd really like to see G4 pick up AVL. I think it would be a much better market for them than TRI to anywhere in Florida, even if they do fly to GSP (75 minutes away).


User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3101 times:



Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 13):
even if they do fly to GSP (75 minutes away).

the closeness of GSP wouldn't stop them, they still serve TYS, TRI, and CHA to SFB and CHA and TRI are fairly close to TYS, I routinely fly out of CHA maybe 80-90 minutes away.

You never know, anything is possible with G4



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2968 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9):
as well as high cancellation rate.

Please explain this... it is extremely rare for Allegiant to cancel a flight.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2953 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9):
Allegiant has an extremely poor on time performance out of FLL, as well as high cancellation rate.

From May 1 to June 30, Flightstats has Allegiant cancelling 8 out of 4550 flights system wide. Thats very, very low.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...do?airlineCode=G4&showCodeshares=N



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Perhaps other airports should try what Youngstown is doing. Trying to get businesses to purchase tix as well, not for business though, as rewards to their employees.

Link: http://www.rewardandfly.com/



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2700 times:



Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 13):
I think it would be a much better market for them than TRI

Um, TRI is ~75 minutes from AVL...don't see your reasoning



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4985 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2617 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
I understand Allegiant officials visited PAE a few weeks ago and since then there have been 12 to 14 phone conversations between G4 and Paine administration.

This is encouraging news! I sure hope we will see G4 come a little further south, to pick up more SEA traffic. Again, I fully support them coming to PAE. I know some green tree huggers are against it, but PAE could really be a gold mine for them.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2533 times:



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 18):
Um, TRI is ~75 minutes from AVL...don't see your reasoning

There is a very large number of ex-Floridians, part-time seasonal residents, and "half backs" (those people from the North who moved to the Sunshine State and decided to move halfway back) in western North Carolina. In addition, western North Carolina has long been the number one out-of-state vacation destination for Florida residents. Plus, south Florida is one of the top O&D destinations from AVL.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2498 times:



Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 20):
Plus, south Florida is one of the top O&D destinations from AVL.

Isnt that the case for almost every city in the eastern US? MCO and TPA are usually high on the O&D lists for most airports.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32599 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 21):
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 20):
Plus, south Florida is one of the top O&D destinations from AVL.

Isnt that the case for almost every city in the eastern US? MCO and TPA are usually high on the O&D lists for most airports.

It's true that Tampa, Orlando, and MIA/FLL almost universally rank in the Top 10 of any U.S. airport O&D's charge East of the Mississippi (and many West of it, too). Though from AVL the market is proportionally even larger thanks to a large number of South Floridians who spend the summer in the Blueridge area.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
I'd be interested in this in terms of the larger picture at FLL. I know other airlines have cut routes at FLL.

Overall capacity at FLL is flat, but domestic capacity is down about 5%. At MIA, domestic is down around 2.5% or so, overall is up about 1%.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):

This is a question for MAH or someone else familiar with FLL. Is the leisure market in the area slowing?

No, it's not slowing at all, but international arrivals were up almost 20% and in 2007 11% of all Europeans who visited the United States visited South Florida (only NYC saw more Europeans). Not sure how domestic tourism is doing. International tourism is doing extremely well.

Though South Florida has always been a more premium leisure market than other Florida cities because its simply more expensive to visit. Miami's average hotel night stays are third highest in the country, IIRC, after New York City and Maui. It's not a "package vacation" market, and that hurts Allegiant.

[Edited 2008-07-19 15:28:32]


a.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2331 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
No, it's not slowing at all, but international arrivals were up almost 20% and in 2007 11% of all Europeans who visited the United States visited South Florida (only NYC saw more Europeans). Not sure how domestic tourism is doing. International tourism is doing extremely well.

That matches things in most tourism areas. Hawaii is down domestically also so they are looking to increase international traffic.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
It's not a "package vacation" market, and that hurts Allegiant.

That's one of the concerns I had when FLL started.

I know many felt the cruise market would help Allegiant's traffic at FLL but it still comes down to G4s ancillary revenues from packages, etc.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Any idea what G4 is going to do with the aircraft freed up by the reduction of PIE and FLL? I know they have announced a couple LAS flights, but that still leaves a couple aircraft sitting around.


Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
25 Iowaman : Those stats you quoted appear outdated. The PIE/FLL/AZA flights aren't even on there. The FLL flights are the ones that are so late all the time. Mar
26 Airbusaddict : The AZA Flights arent being cancelled, they are just going to be turned into seasonal on those select few routes. There are a number of other cities
27 FATFlyer : Flightstats on the bottom of that page doesn't show all routes, just 20 individual routes. For a specific individual route use "Flight Rating" by "ro
28 FATFlyer : Oh and I forgot to add. Flightstats does each leg separately, so to see how the total route performed you have to enter it both ways. For example: TYS
29 FATFlyer : There are 3 or 4 routes out of AZA that will not return. The performance was lower than hoped. Allegiant will replace those with new routes out of AZ
30 Iowaman : 24 hrs. later, I guess that's just a day late, lol. Good to hear.
31 FATFlyer : You ever tried to get out of someplace like ORD after its been shutdown for a day, it can take several days to find an open seat. I'll take a 12 or 2
32 Sflaflight : Well that is a problem too. Remember high fuel is also hitting the cruise industry. The upcoming season will see a downturn in ship docking at South
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