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Air Canada A319 At SNA  
User currently offlineDacman From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 444 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6462 times:
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Air Canada A319 C-GAQZ arrived in Orange County tonight at approximately 2000hrs. The aircraft will perform 5 take-offs and landings tomorrow as a prerequisite to its commencing scheduled flights in September. Air Canada will be operating to Toronto making SNA a true International Airport.

Michael
(Dacman)
LAX / LGB local


"Airliner Photography is not a crime"
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

When was this announced? That would be great to see AC scheduled at SNA... My question is where would the FIS facility be at SNA, or would the flight be pre-cleared in Canada?

Too bad, this is all happening when I move away...  banghead 



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6390 times:



Quoting Dacman (Thread starter):
Air Canada will be operating to Toronto making SNA a true International Airport.

Really?! That is seriously cool. SNA is one of my future [potential] homes, so this is great to hear. Odd, given the fuel climate, but I sincerely hope AC can make it work! Will UA be doing the ground handling?


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6370 times:
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I find the AC service to be quite interesting. Why was AC allowed to fly SNA-YYZ, but AS is not allowed to fly SNA-YVR???

I'm not saying that AC service is bad...that's great for the OC.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

This is all very curious. No PR about new service to a brand new city in just 2 months? Start-up of a new long-haul from a new station in the fall -- as opposed to the peak summer season --of this particular year of runaway fuel costs? The qustion of FIS facilities has already been asked... And apparently they need to test the a/c and/or the field to make sure they can fill it up and get it off the ground (quietly enough?)!...

Again I say, "hmmmm."

Looks like they decided to move the (current) SAN-YYZ A-319 flight 75 miles up the 5 to John Wayne. I hope they can make it work from there!

bb

[Edited 2008-07-22 02:12:48]

User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

There were articles in the O.C paper about this, if I'm correct, new terminal once completed will have the full customs facilites and it's at that time that the intl Canadian flights will be allowed. Air Canada is number one I think on the slot request list, followed by Hawaiian, and then Southwest. I laughed at the HA slot request because they even mentioned they had no intention to fly their 767 to SNA, so why would officials even allow them to submit a slot request, it was only to block further Aloha flights at that time. I'd be annoyed if SWA were issued more slots, think they have their fill of SNA.

This topic had been mentioned in another post within past month, maybe two. Even had a link to the O.C Register on the article. Might have been mentioned in post talking about airline cutbacks, and airports that are enforcing the "use it or lose it" slot rule. I agree, big airlines spend big money to outbid for those slots against smaller airlines, if they're not used, they should have to forfeit the slot. They shouldn't only get to use the slots in times that are all great and dandy, but also when times get rough and they have to stick it out, because it seems all the thinner routes used as p.r. when the airline went bidding for the additional slots are the first to get cut, maybe now the slots should be allocated to other smaller airlines who are only trying to increase competiveness by offering approprate frequencies to their hub/focus cities.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4930 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6087 times:

I find this curious, as there is no internal information about a YYZ-SNA-YYZ route. Normally in advance of a new route, we start to receive airport, customs and jepp information.

Also, it is curious that an A319 was used for noise testing as it would appear that the E190 would be a more suitable "trail blazer". Or does one send their "noisiest" aircraft for testing knowing the quieter one would be allowed?

I am sending an email to our Toronto Operations Base Manager this morning ... may as well get it right from the horse's mouth.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5952 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6):



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6):

Also, it is curious that an A319 was used for noise testing as it would appear that the E190 would be a more suitable "trail blazer". Or does one send their "noisiest" aircraft for testing knowing the quieter one would be allowed?

I hear that it is noise testing and that SNA is an interesting expansion target for AC, but that the decision hasn't been taken to launch, and certainly nothing can happen in the September timeframe because AC launches new North American routes with at least 3-4 months of pre-sale. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it happens later in the fall or for the start of the summer schedule. As for the choice of aircraft, the YYZ-LAX business attracts a lot of J traffic, and I would assume that a YYZ-SNA route would, too, unlike the YYZ-ONT route AC once tried. So the larger J capacity is useful, as is the ability to fly nonstop in both directions without a weight penalty. My assumption is that the E-190s are being heavily utilized and that there is more slack in the Airbus narrowbody fleet right now, especially with the ex-Skybus planes not yet remarketed.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5874 times:

Since everyone has an opinion here's mine,I don't think this one will get off the ground. That's not to say I don't like the idea,it's just that it doesn't make sense.

User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5834 times:



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 8):
32 times:

Since everyone has an opinion here's mine,I don't think this one will get off the ground. That's not to say I don't like the idea,it's just that it doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? If you live in Newport Beach, for example, would you prefer a flight from SNA or LAX?

If you are going to Disneyland, what would you prefer - a flight to SNA or LAX?

I can certainly see this route happening, because AC would have the only nonstop service, and yields tend to be a bit richer than your average leisure destination. I just can't see it in a September timeframe as the OP suggested.


User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

If this was to happen, departing passengers to the US are pre-cleared in Toronto so customs facilities would not be necessary at the other end. This allows the carrier to operate to domestic gates in the US.

Similarly, arriving passengers clear customs in Toronto so facilities would not be necessary at the other end.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25183 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5655 times:



Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
There were articles in the O.C paper about this, if I'm correct, new terminal once completed will have the full customs facilites

Indeed, plans for the new terminal do include FIS facilities, however considering ground breaking has not taken place yet, this would be years away, unless if some temporary trailer park set up would be adopted(which I have heard nothing about)

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
My question is where would the FIS facility be at SNA, or would the flight be pre-cleared in Canada?



Quoting Polaris (Reply 10):
If this was to happen, departing passengers to the US are pre-cleared in Toronto so customs facilities would not be necessary at the other end. This allows the carrier to operate to domestic gates in the US.

Pre-clearance has zero to do with it as its required that airports that receive pre cleared flights from Canada still maintain CBP presence and have the ability to re inspect all passengers if required.

Alaska Airlines a few years back embarrassingly found out the hard way when it decided to commence YVR-SNA service to only learn about this little detail to have the service discontinued on inaugural day!

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
Air Canada is number one I think on the slot request list, followed by Hawaiian, and then Southwest. I laughed at the HA slot request because they even mentioned they had no intention to fly their 767 to SNA,

As it stand currently the waiting list is
1- Air Canada
2 - Hawaiian (which has already declined them)
3 - Airtran
4- Westjet
5 - Virgin America

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
I'd be annoyed if SWA were issued more slots, think they have their fill of SNA.

Why? If SWA is willing to add flights when others are cant/wont why should they be blocked?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5533 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Alaska Airlines a few years back embarrassingly found out the hard way when it decided to commence YVR-SNA service to only learn about this little detail to have the service discontinued on inaugural day!

And the original flight had already taken off. I believe it landed in Ontario, instead.



a.
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

LAXIntl - If no other airlines are ready to go, hect ya, SWA should defnitely get every slot available, but I was just thinking, would be great to throw like you typed, Airtran, or Virgin America into the mix or other airlines not yet serving the airport, and my thoughts were with the new customs facilities that I'm sure we'll start to see airlines from south of the border requesting SNA space.

I didn't realize that the terminal hadn't even been started yet, I thought they broke ground, but then again, I guess I was just impressed with the SNA airport body and their efficiency and get it done attitude vs. the BUR nimbies still arguing about the new terminal, or now the 10pm curfew and everytime I fly home to BUR I am jealous when I have to think what the SNA pax at the same time are enjoying. BUR is great to get in and out, but I am just ready for newer facilities and gates and jetways and a terminal that resembles a typical airport terminal, gates above, baggage below circumnavigated by car rental and hotel and all the travel sort of stuff. I mean, I age myself that I can remember when terminal A was built, and I'm only 34, but as a kid I remember running the BUR gates when it was just an open caged walkway type of thing when Jet America flew there and TWA and at the end was a small enclosed and temp controlled area for Western pax I think it was, and all along this caged walkway the gates were just door openings to the tarmac and there weren't any waiting areas really except for back by the check in areas, I mean it's just time to do something BUR.

Curiousity just made me think back to SNA, and the commuter gates that were at either end of the terminal, I think gate 1A and maybe it was 14A, I can't remember, but end to end that served as boarding areas for previous prop flights, what are those gates now? Have those been retrofitted or are they still just open air gates with jet allocation now?


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
As it stand currently the waiting list is
1- Air Canada
2 - Hawaiian (which has already declined them)
3 - Airtran
4- Westjet
5 - Virgin America

We already know about AC and HA.

FL would be an interesting option to ATL, although they may not be in the position to fly the route if they're cutting back.

Westjet would be a good competitor to AC, but most likely serve YVR or YYC with -700 or -800's. I think they could do well at SNA.

VX also could do well flying to SFO or the Pacific Northwest, in addition to JFK or IAD, although airlines seem to be going for shorter stage lengths.


User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5183 times:



Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 13):


Curiousity just made me think back to SNA, and the commuter gates that were at either end of the terminal, I think gate 1A and maybe it was 14A, I can't remember, but end to end that served as boarding areas for previous prop flights, what are those gates now? Have those been retrofitted or are they still just open air gates with jet allocation now?

Yep. Those gates are mainly served by OO (DL) and MQ (14A,B,C) and OO (UA) and YV (US) (1A,B,C). Note that 1A is almost entirely unused since OO stopped their LAX-SNA flight, an EMB-120 is about all that can fit on that gate. A CRJ-200 can fit there as well, but I've never seen one used there.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25183 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5161 times:



Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 13):
I didn't realize that the terminal hadn't even been started yet, I thought they broke ground,

No nothing significant yet -- first stages will be relocation and demolition of a current parking structure(B1) which is expected to commence after Labor Day.

From what I gather the new terminal-C is still in the design phase with contract award not scheduled till 01Q2009 for completion by 01Q2011. Still quite some ways.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
Westjet would be a good competitor to AC, but most likely serve YVR or YYC with -700 or -800's. I think they could do well at SNA.

I'm not too sure. I'm pretty well acquainted with WJ struggles at LAX, so cant really see SNA which is more a niche market will be much better.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5143 times:



Quoting Sebring (Reply 9):
If you are going to Disneyland, what would you prefer - a flight to SNA or LAX?

Myself and my colleagues regularly fly to SAN and I love the fact I can just take a bus into the city. If taking this flight 80 miles away, it will take me an extra hour there and back, making the direct flight not as advantageous. So I don't see it working as a user of this service.


User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5113 times:



Quoting Sebring (Reply 9):
Why doesn't it make sense? If you live in Newport Beach, for example, would you prefer a flight from SNA or LAX?

Do you really think that many people in Newport Beach have a burning desire to visit Toronto? And considering all the international flights from LAX, why hassle with having to go to YYZ to connect anywhere internationally.


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5080 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 18):

Do you really think that many people in Newport Beach have a burning desire to visit Toronto? And considering all the international flights from LAX, why hassle with having to go to YYZ to connect anywhere internationally.

You clearly have no idea that Newport Beach has regional offices for several Canadian companies, brings a lot of movie industry people who have business in Toronto, and has a large population of ex-pat Canadians.


User currently offlineLAXAgent From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5030 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 18):
why hassle with having to go to YYZ to connect anywhere internationally

ive done atleast 10 trips going INTL cnx YYZ, from time the plane arrived gate (from LAx) the time a got in my INTL gate in YYZ was 10 minutes. You go to Customs B in YYZ, no line at all, once they check your docs they open the door and now you are inside INTL gates without doing Security again.



LAX
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5015 times:



Quoting Sebring (Reply 19):
You clearly have no idea that Newport Beach has regional offices for several Canadian companies, brings a lot of movie industry people who have business in Toronto, and has a large population of ex-pat Canadians.

Really, which regional offices would those be? One would have thought that in terms of leisure travellers to Disneyland and film industry that a flight from YVR would have made more sense. But then, nobody's ever accused Central Canada's national airline of being in tune with the West.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4930 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5007 times:



Quoting LAXAgent (Reply 20):
ive done atleast 10 trips going INTL cnx YYZ, from time the plane arrived gate (from LAx) the time a got in my INTL gate in YYZ was 10 minutes. You go to Customs B in YYZ, no line at all, once they check your docs they open the door and now you are inside INTL gates without doing Security again.

Even the reverse is easy. Arrive from an international destination, bypass Canadian Customs, just go directly to US Customs pre-clearance, pick up your bags, clear Customs, recheck your bags, all in the same area. The only drawback in this direction is you must clear security again as US Customs and Immigration is outside the secure area.

On the plus side though, when you arrive at your US destination you arrive as though a domestic flight. Pick up your checked baggage and leave.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25191 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4998 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 21):
Quoting Sebring (Reply 19):
You clearly have no idea that Newport Beach has regional offices for several Canadian companies, brings a lot of movie industry people who have business in Toronto, and has a large population of ex-pat Canadians.

Really, which regional offices would those be? One would have thought that in terms of leisure travellers to Disneyland and film industry that a flight from YVR would have made more sense. But then, nobody's ever accused Central Canada's national airline of being in tune with the West.

If you're not aware, YYZ is also a major movie production center. That's probably one of the biggest high-yield markets between the Los Angeles area and YYZ and most of them are in first or business class as part of their contracts. I think quite a few entertainment industry executives and actors etc. live in some of the upscale areas of Orange County where SNA would be considered a much more convenient airport than LAX.


User currently offlineGmcc From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

As LAXintl said not a lot has happened yet. The airport is basically in stage 2 in the folllowing link.

http://ocair.com/Improvements/Schedule/ConstructionStages.htm


25 Multimark : I am aware. And as I pointed out YVR and Western Canada would have the added benefit of leisure travellers to Disneyland who would fly to SNA. From C
26 SANFan : I really wonder how this whole multi-airport thing is going to hold up with $150/bl oil? With all the cutting going on, and consolidation, we are seei
27 LongHauler : I just received the email back from one of our marketing managers, and it is as one would expect. The A319 noise testing was to overcome a future nee
28 Post contains links McMax : As I understand it, nothing has changed regarding SNA's ability to accept international flights since AS attempted SNA-YVR in 2002. As others have st
29 LAXintl : A little update -- AC did successfully complete noise qualification tests and certify its A319s at SNA following 5 take off and landings. While AC is
30 Briboy : The WS request makes sense, as when (if) they started service, it would be code-shared with WN. -Brian
31 UPPERDECKFAN : If at the end SNA get FIS, is it possible that LAX can get debottlenecked to certain degree with some leisure mexican routes moving into SNA?
32 Eghansen : Most people would probably book a flight on UA or AA via ORD, or DL via CVG, or AA via DFW, or NW via DTW. The number of flights available per day is
33 PanAm747 : LAX to Disneyland is 34 miles, whereas SNA to Disneyland is 14 miles; however, the rest of the information is correct. Considering that most resident
34 McMax : Doubtful. Capacity (referring to additional take-off and landing slots) at SNA is not scheduled to grow tremendously whatsoever with the new Terminal
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