Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 3357 posts, RR: 21 Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 27313 times:
For a brief time today, CO displayed a picture of its newest-generation BusinessFirst seat, to be installed on its Boeing 777, 787, and 757 (but not 767) aircraft from late 2009:
The New Continental Airlines BusinessFirst Seat
More information about the seat will be featured in the August 2008 Continental Magazine.
Continental180 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 27267 times:
very nice!!!! cant wait for theses to be installed.
EWRCabincrew From Canada, joined May 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 57 Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 27111 times:
Quoting Khobar (Reply 8): So the window passenger gets to the bathroom - how? Jumps over the aisle passenger's bed and hopes he doesn't trip and fall? Hmm...
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 18610 posts, RR: 59 Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26924 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 1): Oh very cool, so its not going on the 762/764s? I'm assuming its just to big of a seat.
It seems as if their design efficiency requires 2-2-2 or 2-2 seating. The 767 will not work with this design, as a single center seat would be too wide the way it is layed out, but going 2-2-2 would be too cramped.
My guess, only a guess, is that the current 170 degree recline 777 seat and IFE will be retrofitted to the remaining 767 fleet (or at minimum the 764s) after they are pulled from the 777s, similar to how the DC10 seat ended up in the 757. Anything would be an improvement over the current 767 seat, as both the 777 and 757 are more comfortable.
The 777 fleet will have 1000 seats yanked out of them during the retrofit. That would cover the 767 fleet entirely (as it stands now), with spares and the ability to discard the 200+ most worn out seats. If they plan on keeping at least the 764s for another 10 years, this would be a good way to make them 'good enough' to keep flying on the mid-range routes. I also assume that because the 777 controls are all motorized, they can be set to decrease recline should CO decide to reduce the 767 pitch and use them more regionally with more seats.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 3442 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26869 times:
I agree that it is quite odd that CO would install these sleeper suites on the 757 but not on the 767.
Delta, on the other hand, will be installing the Thompson Solutions suites on the 767-400ER (and eventually most likely on the 767-300ER and the NW A330s), but not on the 757. The international ETOPS 757s will remain with the Recaro CL 4420 recliner seats.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 18610 posts, RR: 59 Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26863 times:
yep, there are very few airlines with the 1-2-1 seating in J. It's annoying to step over someone sleeping, but that's life. I don't tend to need to use the john much, so I choose a window seat so as not to be disturbed a lot, but if you are bladder impaired, choose an aisle. There are 4 of them per row on the 777 and 787, after all.
I like that the seats aren't as rotated as they are on the 1-2-1 designs, and they are rotated toward the windows, not away, so you can see out. Both plusses there.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Nuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 189 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26832 times:
The question now is do these seats make cal loose seats in first.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3348 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26776 times:
They look mighty similar to UAs new Business seats.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
CO777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 676 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26756 times:
I think it is like this:
X X ----- X X-------X X
- X X--------X X-------X X
X X ----- X X-------X X
- X X--------X X-------X X
X X ----- X X-------X X
- X X--------X X-------X X
Galley
X X ----- X X-------X X
- X X--------X X-------X X
X X ----- X X-------X X
AznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2259 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26721 times:
Wahoo!!!
As for their debut, will they still be introduced on the 787s first or will they start with the 772s? Also, will they retrofit the 772s first before the 752s or will it be an alternating mix like 772s here then 752s there?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 3357 posts, RR: 21 Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26675 times:
Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 19): As for their debut, will they still be introduced on the 787s first or will they start with the 772s? Also, will they retrofit the 772s first before the 752s or will it be an alternating mix like 772s here then 752s there?
There's no information yet as to any of those questions...and I'm sure it will be quite a while before the installation schedule begins to firm up.
AznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2259 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26639 times:
Quoting Avek00 (Reply 20): There's no information yet as to any of those questions...and I'm sure it will be quite a while before the installation schedule begins to firm up.
Actually, I think I possibly found the answer on flyertalk:
Quote: Larry says beginning later next year. That may mean starting on the two new 772 to be delivered then, if I read it correctly. Great that they won't be waiting for the 787.
As others have said on flyertalk, why wait till late 2009?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
JEdward From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26232 times:
Quoting CAL764 (Reply 22): I'm lookin to find out the size of the T.V...Looks impressive, overall.
The article -now pulled down- said 15.4" if I remember correctly.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich. --Mark Twain
25 Ikramerica: It does not look like that to me. The seats are rotated, not parallel to the sides of the aircraft, so staggering like you lay out is not needed. Bec
26 Viscount724: That's a big advantage of the herringbone layout used by AC/VS/NZ etc. Every seat has direct access to an aisle without having to climb over the pass
27 N770WD: It's staggered as CO777ER lays out. The seat extends into the hollow space beneath the armrests of the row in front, hence . It's a cross between the
28 Falcon84: Larry stated more than once that if any plan meant cutting out any BF seats, it wouldn't work. CO insisted that the number of seats remain the same.
29 DocLightning: Looks like a Thompson product, no?
30 MasseyBrown: Those cushions look painfully thin.
31 STT757: Where will the 757 installation take place, MCO? Where will the 777 installation take place, LAX?
32 Readytotaxi: You know that was just what I was thinking, would you get a good nights sleep on that, or perhaps this is just a mock up, advert thing.
33 1337Delta764: Does anyone know who is the maker of these sleeper suites? I would agree that the design seems to be copying the Thompson Vantage. However, I thought
34 Singapore_Air: It would appear to be a version of James Thompson's Vantage seat. Specifically, it appears to be Sicma Aero Seat's licensed version of the Thompson A
35 Jfk777: Are these teh same seats SWISS is putting in Business Class ?
36 1337Delta764: I am guessing you have a point, since Delta's Vantage suites will actually be built by Contour Premium Aircraft Seating. CO is simply installing Sicm
37 Burnsie28: Yet another business seat that if your on the window seat and the person next to you is sleeping you have to attempt to step well over them. I still l
38 Blackbird1331: Burnsie28: Any pics of that seat? Sounds interesting.
39 AA737-823: Didn't DELTA get US exclusivity with the Thompson seats for a few years? I know they did on the weird staggered coach... what are they? Cozy Suites,
40 Voltage: I think you're asking if the business class seats are so good that people who used to buy first class will now buy business instead. Well, that doesn
41 1337Delta764: Nope, I think it was only for the staggered Economy class Cozy Suites. Someone correct me if I am wrong though.
42 BWilliams: I believe he means to ask if there are going to be fewer BF seats to make up for the extra size of these seats. I would say no -- like someone else s
43 GSPSPOT: Gorgeous, but guess I won't see much of it. Seems like CO is cozying up to UA and *A. I'm all Skyteam. Would have been nice...
44 Singapore_Air: If one assumes I am correct, and that this is the Sicma Aero Seat version of Thompson's basic design premise, then you can separate the pure version
45 BlueFlyer: So maybe it's been answered elsewhere and I missed it, but why would CO not install these seats on their 764s ? I have taken a lot of TATL trips over
46 Sac: The seat does not fit as good ont he 762/4 fleet. The seat will be angled with the window seat being slightly forward of the aisle seat. This would gi
47 1337Delta764: That is what I would like to know. Once Delta installs the Thompson suites on their 767-400ERs, they will be miles ahead of CO's product. Remember wh
48 AznMadSci: I think the 764s will be on a wait-and-see basis once the 788s come online, as well as how much oil costs. I think the 788s would do more internation
49 Kjet12: burnsie: nw's WBC seat still suffers this problem like most other airline lie flat seats. I flew WBC to hnl last Friday and it was a pain to climb ove
50 FLY777UAL: Two interesting things which no one has yet to mention (hint): 1) It's the same seat design as the new UA Business Seat 2) In the news today, B/E Aero
51 BNinMSY: With CO joining *A does anything think they will entertain installing First class on some routes e.g. NRT, LHR, HKG, BJS, FRA ?
52 STT757: In a word, no. It would create a sub fleet, something CO does not like to do with their operations.
53 Ikramerica: This requires some retrofitting. But all of these traditional J seat models are designed to be able to be singles, doubles and triples (to be used on
54 STT757: Bringing their products closer in line, common customer experience or laying the groundwork for a merger?
55 FLY777UAL: I would be inclined to go with the fact that it's an extremely good product more than anything, however common customer experience for the premium tr
56 Warren747sp: Great News. This means that CO is definitely keeping the 757 on transatlantic routes for the long term. Maybe we will get lucky once in a while on a d
57 Falcon84: In that seat, yes you would. Sorry. Couldn't resist!
58 1337Delta764: Are you sure these are the same model of seats as UA's business class? I thought UA's business class seats are in a back-to-back layout. These don't a
59 FLY777UAL: Positive. Same seat, different layout. F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
61 Ikramerica: Well then, same seating surface, not same overall seat design. Or am I missing your point?
62 United1: No its not UAs seats, UAs are not angled as much as those are, also the "feet" part of UAs seats do not go under the armrest part of the seats in fron
63 BigMac: Are you sure? Looks like a completely different seat (I'm not talking about the configuration) to me...
64 FLY777UAL: Whoops! Okay, credit to Boston92 Missing the point. Same seat design (being same fundamental B/E seat as UA with same dropping armrest, same tray tab
65 FLY777UAL: ...alright, then. Wait for the press release. Same fundamental seat as BA's New Club World, as well (again, a different layout choice)... F L Y 7 7 7
66 COEWR2587: I think the seat it's self is the same as UA's new one, the shell may be different, but the i can see how the actual seat it's self could be the same.
67 COEWR2587: I think the config may look like this. http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/ts_business_pan.html I'm only guessing though
68 DL767captain: They are kind of confusing, it looks like 3 seats but there are only 2. Very nice looking and will compete well against DL and UA. not really sure abo
69 DeltaL1011man: Looks nice. Good job CO. only the new Y seats. Your right Not only the 764s but the 763s also.
70 Panamair: Actually, the link you provided is for the Delta 764ER and the Swiss A333 new J seats to be installed starting Spring 2009. Like others, I can't tell
71 AA737-823: Wow, $140 million!?!?! That's like.... ten minutes worth of jet fuel!!!
72 UAL777UK: I personally hate the herringbone design, very impersonal if your travelling with a companion whether for work or pleasure..unless you like to raise
73 COalways: So CO will be the only legacy Carrier in the United States with Layflat seats on a 757 for Domestic and international flights thats going to set them
74 STT757: The formal announcement from CO will be on Monday.
75 WorldTraveler: .... but the only US network carrier (perhaps US) that doesn't have a lie flat seat on all of its widebody international fleet. We'll watch for the a
76 FUN2FLY: Looks like CO got what they wanted: no loss of BF seats w/lie flat bed. Most of us would agree a slight offset or having to hop over one person to the
77 Ikramerica: You do love to say such wild things. Blunder of monumental proportions? Seriously? CO competes with VS now, who has lie flat seats, and CO doesn't. T
78 STT757: Your looking at things again through your skewed self admitted bias, your not being objective. The back bone of CO's Trans-Atlantic fleet is not the
79 Burnsie28: But stepping over their feet which isn't very high is a lot lower then what CO's new product is going to be.
80 Dutchflyboi: Well the 767 is not the backbone of CO's transatlantic fleet. 63 planes converted with the new seats and only 26 not getting them (as far as we know)
81 Justloveplanes: Looks crisp, clean and efficient. Very CO. I like the side by side too, I travel with collegues and some of the most productive times are discussing t
82 Panamair: I wouldn't go that far. I fly both a lot and the current CO BF seat is better than DL's only in the width department (on the 767s only) though DL's p
83 DeltaL1011man: If the 767 is tha back bone of CO's TATL fleet the 757 is the backbone of DL's TATL fleet. Yes but for some they would rather be on a 767 over a 757.
84 Evan767: Other carriers don't fly nearly as many 757's transatlantic as Continental does.. Far superior? Please. Keep dreaming. If it is in your opinion that
86 Dutchflyboi: I have flown DL many times as a full fare passenger, and Delta's seats are narrower than CO's, and not as comfortable. DL has the better IFE in busin
87 COalways: The 767-400 are not going anywhere anytime soon on Flyertalk COinsider a CO rep said the 767-400 are going to get fitted for AVOD from Nose to Tail a
88 LHR777: It's quite amusing that you say that, then include pictures of two very dissimilar products - the 2-1-2 configuration cloth 21" wide BusinessFirst of
90 LHR777: Right - so as we were comparing 767's, I was correct - CO has 4 degrees less recline and 5 inches less pitch, whilst being 2.5 inches wider. CO 777's
91 Dutchflyboi: Correct, but you didn't mention that in your post. And just for the record, although I like CO's seat better than DL, both ailines offer a great prod
92 Viscount724: If you limit the discussion to the product on 767s, DL's 6-abreast layout (just one less than Y) is second-rate compared to carriers with 5-abreast i
93 Qantasistheway: Copycats! It seems it has been designed for Olympic gymnasts, and just intime, they may even have used one during the product testing phase lol
94 WesternA318: I've never had any problems with the current seats on the 767's. In fact, I do prefer those over the 777's.
95 WorldTraveler: while the 767 may not be the most prevalent aircraft on CO's transatlantic system (thx for the breakdown by type), it is THE most widely used aircraft
96 Dutchflyboi: And for DL not to offer it on their 757 Aircraft. I guess we will have to wait until Monday's official announcement
97 CODC10: True, but that's because NW's seat is angled lie-flat. I think it's a no-brainer that true flat is going to be a reasonable tradeoff for a marginally
98 STT757: No worse than DL not offering a competitive product on their Trans-Atlantic 757s.
99 Panamair: Small point - but DL's 772ER BE seats have a seat width of 20-21", not 18.5. DL's 77E BE config is 2-2-2 - same as CO. DL and CO are just about the o
100 Mir: Which means bupkis to CO if they're not using the 767 for that many routes. Or, alternately, it could mean that DL's 757s are at a serious competitiv
101 WorldTraveler: We could get in a urinary contest about CO's 767s not having a lie flat seat but I suppose the gist is that it probably doesn't really matter for CO w
102 Dutchflyboi: And DL uses 757 from JFK to LYS (8hr.35 minutes according to DL's website) CO from EWR to BCN (8hr 5 min according to CO's website) SO you are claimi
103 CODC10: So what? Now EWR's location is disadvantageous? You're really, really, really digging deep here. Again, this has ZERO relevance to the argument at ha
104 DeltaL1011man: I agree which is why I think we could see a 75A lie-flat from Delta. 767-400ER 20-21 inch wide 55inch pitch. And DL's new C seats so 10 times better
105 STT757: DL has such a small 777 fleet, there's not much of a chance to fly one unless your going to Asia. CO flies them to LHR (EWR and IAH), CDG (EWR and IA
106 COalways: I highly doubt it they are already installing the regular seats on there 757 A/C Dont forget FRA on certain days
107 Ikramerica: So? CO doesn't fly AAs, DLs and others' 767s. They only fly their own. They have hundreds between them. So what other carriers do with theirs is irre
108 Singapore_Air: While one admits that the actual seat can be inconsistent across the fleet, the actual Business Class product on any aircraft also comprises of simil
109 Viscount724: Except for carriers like AC and NZ with the herringbone layout which is basically 1-2-1. SQ is also 1-2-1 (but forward-facing, not herringbone) on th
110 Ikramerica: It's not off topic. It's a parallel example. This is the same situation CO will find itself in. They currently have 3 different J hard products, 4 (5
111 NWASkyking: this is very nice! Probably one of the better US business class seats for sure!
112 WorldTraveler: LYS is not a competitive market. DL is the only carrier flying to LYS nonstop from the US. BCN is directly competitive with AA and DL 767s - both of
113 Mir: CO has won several awards for BusinessFirst over the years with what is now a pretty outdated seat. That's a signal to me that you can easily overcom
114 Dutchflyboi: You were comparing B757 aircraft. Delta is using the 757 aircraft, just like CO is, but Co has the better product and seats on the 757, not Delta. So
115 AA737-823: Speak for yourself; I disagree entirely. If it's comfortable, I don't care whether it has a built in coffee maker. Ikramerica, can you define "soft"
116 WorldTraveler: DL's 757 business elite seat or service has not been in service long enough to be rated by any major rating group. Further, tell me how the current D
117 Mir: Soft product is pretty much anything that isn't set in stone for the flight. The seat is hard product - you know what that's going to be. Same for IF
118 Avek00: Yes, but the greatest part of the value proposition (by some measures, up to 80%!) for premium longhaul travel is -- BY FAR -- the seat, the seat, an
119 CODC10: Again, what are you getting at? CO is introducing a new flat seat to remain competitive in the marketplace, and the fact that a significant amount of
120 Viscount724: Corporate discounts are also a big factor. Frequently the business traveller has no choice of airline on routes where their employer has negotiated v
121 AA737-823: Four words, buddy: READ MORE, TYPE LESS. READ what I wrote- nowhere EVER did I say that the seat doesn't matter. I simply said that you are wrong to
122 QQflyboy: Well at least AA will be fairly competitive with CO when they install the new NGBC seat on 757s for TATL flying. While DL's 757 TATL J seat will be in
123 1337Delta764: DL's new slimline Economy class seats are the 5751. The ones on the 772LRs have winged headrests. Have you heard anywhere that AA will be going with
124 Panamair: Did I miss something? When did AA say that they would be using 757s (with proper 2-class service) for TATL flying?
125 Nuggetsyl: The announcement of the new seat comes today.
126 Readytotaxi: Nothing on the web site as yet. 16:44 gmt
127 QQflyboy: They actually announced it a couple of years ago, maybe three, but put the plan on hold. It appears that the plan is going to move forward in early '
128 Amirs: i still dont understand why they are waiting soooo long? Couldnt they start introduce it as a refitt for some of the "older" 777 why they need to wait
129 CAL764: The CO announcement should be some time today (Monday).
130 Dutchflyboi: And it is official: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080728/lam075a.html?.v=1 Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) today announced details of a new 180-
131 AznMadSci: Here's a rather poor version (due to watermarks) of the actual seat: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20080728/LAM075A-a http://www.newscom.com/cgi
133 Singapore_Air: Oh I was wrong - BE Aerospace eh? Thanks for the news DutchFlyBoy and AznMadSci.
134 CAL764: 15.4'' monitor on all aircraft except 757 which will have 10.6'' monitor. Will this mean a different type of seat?
135 AA737-823: Wow- that's a lot of monitor! That's almost up there with Emirates, et al.
136 Flpuck6: Hi, I find the new J-class seats on the Emirates A380 look similar (on the general layout concept, not getting into details, afterwards they are not c
137 STT757: It probably has to due with reducing weight to protect performance on trans-Atlantic 757s.
138 Ikramerica: My guess is that the 757 version will be oriented and designed differently, and the smaller PTV screen will come out of an arm rest, necessitating a
139 STT757: All of CO's 41 757-200s have the AVOD sceens in BusinessFirst that come out of the armrest.
140 Ikramerica: Yeah. So? I stand by my statement that a 15" screen 40" away is still better than an 8" screen overhead. I never said the 757 has 8" overhead monitor
141 STT757: Some more photos and some descriptions here: http://crankyflier.com/2008/07/29/nb...nental-goes-flat-in-businessfirst/ About the 767s:
142 AA737-823: ....as CEO Larry Kellner should be. His posterior is the widest in the industry- shouldn't his seats be???
143 Alitalia744: Congrats to CO on their new seats. CO flyers will enjoy the lie-flat comfort. Ikramerica - yes, Delta will have many different lie-flats and LFAngles,
144 WorldTraveler: I wouldn't call a fleet of over 125 widebody international aircraft with different configurations a grave mistake. And there are still another 25 or m
145 AznMadSci: WT, can you grammatically diagram this sentence??? What are you trying to say? I think this is the beauty of flexibility. Currently this is what work
146 CODC10: Has this been a rough week for you? Over the last several days we have seen postings from you that range from the absurd (this thread) to the flat-ou
147 STT757: I would call JFK-FRA an important long haul Central European continent route that DL operates with 757-200s, CO has been flying 777-200ERs to FRA for
148 Mir: Or you could just look at the aircraft type listed in the schedule when booking. You're really reaching on that one. -Mir
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