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Why Does SWA Duplicate Flight Numbers?  
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
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I was noticing that SWA has two Flight #12's. One flies from MDW to SDF and the other flies from HOU to DAL. Now why would an airline have two different flights with the same flight number--I mean there is plenty of rom to grow in a 4 digit nomenclature---9,999 to be exact and they are already using many four digit flight numbers starting with 3.....why would they duplicate then?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3290 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

It would actually appear they have 6 flight 12s.

HOU-DAL
DAL-MCI
MCI-MDW
MDW-SDF
SDF-BHM
BHM-MCO

It's all 1 direct flight. An interesting route, to say the least.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

It's not a duplicate. It is a continuation of the same flight. Goes HOU-DAL-MCI-MDW-SDF-BHM-MCO.
Not sure why so many segments, but it saves on using really high numbers in flight numbers and also may add to more thru flight combos for pax. Say pax 1 goes HOU-MDW, and pax 2 flies MCI-SDF and pax 3 MDW-MCO. No idea. Looking at many routings of same flight numbers, some are a real treat to look at.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3888 times:



Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
I was noticing that SWA has two Flight #12's. One flies from MDW to SDF and the other flies from HOU to DAL.

They're both legs of the same flight, which actually operates HOU-DAL-MCI-MDW-SDF-BHM-MCO.

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
there is plenty of rom to grow in a 4 digit nomenclature---9,999 to be exact and they are already using many four digit flight numbers starting with 3.....why would they duplicate then?

Because for whatever reason, the multi-stops work for them. No one actually flies HOU-MCO (aside from perhaps the crews) like that, but there are certainly plenty of folks who take the various one-stops in there (like DAL-MDW, SDF-MCO, HOU-MCI, MCI-SDF, MDW-BHM).


User currently offlineSurferX From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3881 times:
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I wonder if there was ever a person that flew from HOU-MCO on that routing...

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3881 times:



Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
I mean there is plenty of rom to grow in a 4 digit nomenclature---9,999 to be exact

Not really. Scheduled flights run from 1-3999, and other ranges above have dedicated uses such as charters, ferries, stubs, and promotional flights.

Flight 12 is one of many multi-stop flights...


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

It also permits better display in reservations systems in markets where passengers don't mind making intermediate stops. For example, they may pick up some passengers MCI-MDW-SDF that they wouldnn't get if the flight number changed at MDW since through flights with a single number normally have higher display priority in systems than connecting flights.

User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3850 times:
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thanks to you all and now I understand....why we love this forum!!

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3770 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
through flights with a single number normally have higher display priority in systems than connecting flights.

It's also slightly cheaper for the passenger, since through passengers with no change of flight number aren't supposed to be charged a TSA fee or a PFC for the intermediate stop.


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1645 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3727 times:
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I checked on Southwest’s reservation site and the HOU-MCO 6 segment flight 12 does not show up so I don’t think you can book it from HOU to MCO that way, the most stops on this run are 2 stops.

User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

Which brings up the question, what WN flight number is scheduled for the most
enroute stops? 6 between HOU and MCO is pretty good, are there any
7 or 8 stop flights???



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3486 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
I don’t think you can book it from HOU to MCO that way, the most stops on this run are 2 stops.

Correct. Southwest will allow you to book a single flight with at most three en-route stops, or, when a connection is involved, two en-route stops including the connection. For example, you may book GEG-ONT on WN 792, routed GEG-BOI-RNO-SJC-ONT.


User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

i have flown a 3 stop route before it was FLL-MSY-DAL-SAT. i must say it was pretty fun, but maybe thats cause im 16 and have nothing better to do lol. it was also interesting to note how the load factor changed on each flight.



-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineBNinMSY From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

well if someone wnated to purchase a ticket on it .. I could sell it. And while you won't pay the PFC ... you will pay the airport segment fees for each stop....


NO NAMES
1 WN 12Y 24JUL Q HOUMCO SS1 900A 750P /RQ /E

WPNCB«
24JUL DEPARTURE DATE-----LAST DAY TO PURCHASE 24JUL
BASE FARE TAXES TOTAL
1- USD250.23 45.27XT USD295.50ADT
XT 18.77US 21.00ZP 2.50AY 3.00XF
250.23 45.27 295.50TTL
ADT-01 YL
HOU WN ORL250.23YL 250.23 END ZPHOUDALMCIMDWSDFBHM XFHOU3


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5412 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Has anyone else noticed that WN completely changes all flight numbers every time they do a major schedule re-work -- a few times a year? That is one reason they have such a large pool of flight numbers (as OPNL' pointed out, from 1 to 3999.)

The other reason is that they now op very few daily flights; their Saturday (and Sunday) schedules are for the most part completely different than the Mon-Fri schedule, meaning all flights are re-numbered on the weekends! This helps make their published Flight Schedule HUGE these days; their May 10 issue is 200 schedule-pages.

And yes, they do many, many circuitous-routing flights, some (including perhaps flight 12 being discussed here) that actually is the only flight that a/c operates each day! I have seen some that start in the northwest, pass thru SAN, go to Florida, and ultimately end up in New England -- something like GEG-RNO-SAN-PHX-HOU-MCO-BWI-PVD. (One plane = one flight number = one day!)

As has been pointed out, it allows many different thru (direct) segments saving pax a change of aircraft. In the case of WN, it makes little difference op's-wise as their ground times are usually only 20-30 minutes whether it's a thru-flight or a turn (with a change of flight number between the arrival and departure.)

A fastinating airline from an operational standpoint; and apparently they know what they're doing!  Smile

bb


User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

Southwest now totally re-optimizes the flight schedule every time a major schedule rewrite is done, which currently is 5 or 6 times a year, so the deck is "re-shuffled" 5 or 6 times a year with respect to departure times as well as flight numbers. Recently, we began to treat Saturdays as a separate schedule as well, with a totally separate Saturday optimization run--which is why the Saturday schedule bears absolutely no resembelance to the schedule from Sunday through Friday from almost any aspect with the exception that the nonstop markets served remain by and large the same, although frequencies within the markets can shift (significantly!).

Hope this helps.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5412 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Great minds, Dadoftyler...  Wink

bb


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3111 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 14):
Has anyone else noticed that WN completely changes all flight numbers every time they do a major schedule re-work

Well, they don't quite change all the flight numbers; almost every low single-/double-digit flight number (under about 60) still operates either a HOU-DAL (even numbers) or DAL-HOU (odd numbers) segment -- and they still increase sequentially throughout the day. A bit of a nod to history there.


User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

Great catch, ScottB....DAL-HOU and HOU-DAL have a "required" flight number sequence, as you said a nod to history. There are other requirements...flight 711 has to fly from SAT to LAS, 1492 has to go to or from Columbus, etc. I did a blog piece on it a year or so ago....if interested, see link below....

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/fl...ght-names-just-wouldnt-be-the-same


User currently offlineSkyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

I once flew as a pax on a Republic DC-9 from ORD to PBI with intermediate stops at MEM, MGM, BHM, and MCO. The crew thought I was crazy!

User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2936 times:



Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 19):
I once flew as a pax on a Republic DC-9 from ORD to PBI with intermediate stops at MEM, MGM, BHM, and MCO. The crew thought I was crazy!

Hey I'd do this in a heartbeat! Most of us airliner "geeks" can appreciate such routings that the rest of the world cannot. IIRC, the old Southern could get you from ORD to LGA in like 8 to 10 stops. An old OAG from 1970 I have has a DAL-BIL flight with an * in the "number of stops" column - its was 12, on on Convair 580. I guess if one was resourceful and had the time and funds, the aforementioned flight 12 (or one similar) could be done.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2901 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 20):
DAL-BIL flight with an * in the "number of stops" column - its was 12, on on Convair 580.

Sounds like Braniff!

I remember I used to fly from MLI to MSP back in the early 80s that went MLI-CID-ALO-MSP (two stops!).

I think that was either MVA (OPNL - your first dispatch job!) or Ozark.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Actually, isn't the reason why WN creates these very long multi-stop flights for the purpose of on-time reporting?

I seem to recall that a flight is considered on-time if it reaches its final destination timely. So flight 12 can screw the pooch raw on every destination in between but as long as it gets to MCO on time, it's an "on-time" flight.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2843 times:



Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 22):
Actually, isn't the reason why WN creates these very long multi-stop flights for the purpose of on-time reporting?

Doubtful, given that with their quick turnarounds, it's difficult to make up time on the subsequent legs (and I'm fairly certain each leg is reported separately anyway).

Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 18):
There are other requirements...flight 711 has to fly from SAT to LAS, 1492 has to go to or from Columbus

So exactly why is it that 711 has fly from SAT as opposed to another city? And I do believe Southwest did have flight 1776 serving PHL for a while, too. For those who appreciate Texas history, flight 1836 ought to fly between SAT and HOU...  Smile


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