MayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 2 Posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8231 times:
As of tomorrow Thursday 07/24, SCT, the Mexican Department of Communications and Transportation will be grounding Aero California and banning ExpressJet's Continental's operations in Mexico due to JR owing them US25M and ExpressJet US 4.5M, according to (Spanish only): http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/524701.html
This will be in effect until both pay the Mexican Government in full.
MayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8121 times:
Let's hope it doesn't happen, they still have a few hours to come up with the 4.5 million... But as for JR, after all of their difficulties, I see it extremely hard for them to restart their operations. Let's hope for the best in terms of saving jobs without sacrificing safety.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3644 posts, RR: 38 Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7845 times:
Quoting Juventus (Reply 5): I started a thread regarding this issue this morning and it was deleted. I'll never understand this site.
I was wondering where that thread went, too. It may have been deleted because you posted the entire text of the article, which a.net views as a copyright violation.
Juventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7755 times:
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 6): I was wondering where that thread went, too. It may have been deleted because you posted the entire text of the article, which a.net views as a copyright violation.
thanx, that's probably what happened. No wonder.....
Back to the topic, this could be the final nail in the coffin for AeroCalifornia, 25 million is a lot for them. Second grounding in less than 3 years, it will tarnish their reputation even more, not a big worry tough, people will flock to buy the cheapest ticket. I do want them to make through this one, they're part of Mexican aviation.
Express Jet will have to pay the 4 mil, that's a good portion of their business.
COflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7504 times:
ExpressJet serves 27 destinations for Continental in Mexico. Mainline flies to 11 cities.
For example, this friday, there are 38 ERJs and 11 ER3s heading South from IAH to ACA, AGU, CUU, CME, DGO, GDL, ZIH, BJX, MZT, MEX, MTY, MLM, OAX, PBC, PVR, QRO, SLW, SJD, SLP, TAM, TLC, TRC, VER and VSA.
On that same day, 2 739s, 8 738s, 2 73Gs, 7 733s and 6 735s head South from IAH and EWR to CUN, CZM, BJX, MID, MEX, MTY, PVR and SJD.
Flight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3292 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7380 times:
"payment of outstanding fees for use of Mexican airspace."
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7235 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10): "payment of outstanding fees for use of Mexican airspace."
This begs the question:
What services do they provide exactly?
Overflight navigation charges plus possibly local charges such as landing fees if they go to the Federal government.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2383 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7212 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10): What services do they provide exactly?
Not much, like the rest of Central and South America they'll let you fly right into a mountain if you don't have good situational awareness. It isn't their fault though the governments don't have a lot of money to spend on radars and modern ground based navigation. ATC down there is more like Air Traffic Service, not Air Traffic Control.
MayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7199 times:
ExpressJet is at an almost two year long default with its payments for Air traffic control (en route navigation and terminal charges) and other air navigation services (Meteorological and Aeronautical Information Services) with SENEAM (Servicios a la Navegacion en el Espacio Aereo Mexicano / Navigational Services in Mexican Air Space), the Mexican Government Agency in charge of ATC. These payments are collect-able through SAT (Servicio de Administracion Tributaria), the Mexican equivalent of the American IRS. If they don't pay by deadline tomorrow, it'll be better for them to store their planes at IAH.
MayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7157 times:
Quoting NorCal (Reply 12): What services do they provide exactly?
Not much, like the rest of Central and South America they'll let you fly right into a mountain
Not even my friends in Medellín, CO could have ever thought of even joking about it. Whichever services are provided, prompt payment is expected. MX & AM put their fleets in and out of the US everyday without any IRS problems (since 1929) due to their timely payments. If it wasn't like that Azteca would have spared one 737.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7112 times:
I cannot get a link, but in CO's General Bulletin to employees-that's a daily bulletin for all CO employees-it says XJT will have the approximately $4.5 million in fees paid for by the start of the business day, 7-24. So, if that is the case, there should be no suspension of service by XJT to Mexico.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7083 times:
Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 14): MX & AM put their fleets in and out of the US everyday without any IRS problems (since 1929) due to their timely payments.
Well in the US there are no direct ATC navigation fee's for airlines to pay.
Cost of the ATC system is borne by passengers via ticket taxes. Only flights that transit US airspace without landing (hence no ticket fees) pay an enroute charge.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6958 times:
The point is that ATC navigation services are not a cost center for AM or MX when coming to the US as they receive the service of the FAA gratis, unlike US carriers when operating into Mexico which as you can see must pay out what can be millions in navigation charges.
Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 17): BTW is this what AM & MX are getting when paying for US ATC on their Canada-Mexico flights?
As far as this, I think its a great idea that we are getting fresh blood and increasing the ATC work force. Personally I see an 18 year old as good as any candidate and most likely very adapt at understanding the technology involved -- like a big video game basically.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
AM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1689 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
Quoting NorCal (Reply 12): Not much, like the rest of Central and South America they'll let you fly right into a mountain if you don't have good situational awareness
Clearly, some facts are in order:
- Mexico is not in Central nor South America
In case you were thinking on the AA Cali crash:
- Cali is not in Mexico
- It was not ATCs fault
If you think US ATC is perfect:
- LAX ATC let a Piper fly though the vertical stabilizer of an AM DC-9, resulting in a heavy loss of lives, even in the ground.
So your attempt at a derogatory statement stands on pretty weak foundations.
Styles9002 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 524 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6480 times:
Juventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5674 times:
Mexico is part of North America, but due to political issues, Mexico will ALWAYS be brought up when it comes to Latin American.
Was this necessary? Your attitude suggests somehow you are personally being ripped off by the unpaid fees.
Back in the 90's I flew with a charter A/C down to MEX and basically we couldnt get out of the FBO until the pilot personally went around and tipped anyone who was standing around acting like they worked there. Magically within minutes things "worked out" and we were able to get our aircraft moved so we could leave.
Its amazing how money makes things happen south of the border...
FLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4760 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10): What services do they provide exactly?
Exactly the same as in the US and Europe.
Quoting NorCal (Reply 12): Not much, like the rest of Central and South America they'll let you fly right into a mountain if you don't have good situational awareness.
What a blatant display of ignorance.
While I can't speak for central and south america, Mexico has an impressive ATC system. I know because I've personally visited several of their TRACON and center facilities. They are on par with the best european facilities, and use european equipment. I've visited US ATC facilities as well and while they were good, they did feel like they were lagging behind in equipment when compared to Mexico or Europe.
Not to mention there are stricter rules (i.e. no night flying unless you filed IFR) among other things. Mexico has user fees so that's why Xjet is in debt.
25 MayaviaERJ190: 4.5m plus interest and fines since 2006 amounted to US5'265,000 according to (Spanish only): http://www.sct.gob.mx/despliega-noti...ws%5BbackPid%5D=1&
26 FLY2HMO: Jeez why can't they just die already...
27 EddieDude: Did that happen at MEX, as in Mexico City Benito Juárez International Airport?
28 NorCal: I never singled out Mexico, I said all of Central and South America. I agree there is a lot wrong with our ATC system, but ours and Europe's is a lot
29 Ghost77: Congratulations, yes, money talks, you fed corruption, if you ignore them or filled a report other thing could have been, fortunately Mexico has chan
30 AirNZ: Actually, you did by clearly saying like all of Central and South America. Indeed, if you are now changing your stance upon being corrected by a few
31 Iahflyr: Might want to visit again, I think you'll find that quite a few U.S. ATC facilities are quite different with equipment that what you might have seen
32 FLY2HMO: Last time I did so was in ZHU around April this year. And you're right they've come along, but I didn't get that much of a wow factor, but yes, that'
33 Orbis: right now i am at a tijuana hotel. the lobby is filled with at least 25 layedover overworked JR crew. crying, anger with few exceptions of overboozed
34 Captaink: What does all of Latin America have to do with this thread? The AA crash in Cali and what not. The thread is specifically about Mexico, that has seem
35 Juventus: I feel for Aerocalifornia, I was about to start a thread " how are they doing? could they maybe start replacing their DC9s with CRJs or ERJs?" .....I
36 NorCal: I mentioned Central and South America because in my professional experience I have found that the ATC services provided in Mexico are similar to the
37 FLY2HMO: I just did so, several posts above. But I was just speaking for Mexico.
38 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: I so agree with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
39 IAHFLYR: Sounds like you're telling us the ATC system saw it and took no action to solve it???? Tell me that is not what you are implying.
40 MTYFREAK: I'm a Pilot and based on my experience Mexican ATC are as good or even better than American ATC. American ATC and pilots use a lot of non-standard ph
41 KAUSpilot: The ARTCC's in Mexico are about as good as the ones in the US from this pilot's perspective. Since the airspace is less congested, Mexican ATC can alm
42 EddieDude: There is a Discovery Channel show about air disasters and there is one one-hour episode about the Piper - AM DC9 crash over the Los Angeles metro are
43 NorCal: Even though we shouldn't we sometimes do because English is our primary language. If Spanish or Chinese was the international language (looking at th
44 Juventus: NorCal what the hell is your problem man? if you don't feel safe in Latin America, don't go, simple. What is it that you want these people to do?? Bac
45 MayaviaERJ190: Crews were advised to return by their own means to their home bases. No other word from JR so far. The Federal Government is still expecting payment.
46 NorCal: Can you read? What part of "I think flying in Mexico or any other Latin American country is safe" don't you understand? Do you work as an airline pil
47 Britmex: Hello NorCAL...and the remaining crew: Regarding Mexico's ATC I can say from my GA pilot experience (commercial multiengine and hopeful ATP) that conc
49 NorCal: Then read and understand what I wrote before you accuse me of things I'm not A high altitude airport like Aspen is a perfect example of a difficult a
50 Juventus: I'm not accusing you of anything, you believe whatever the hell you want to believe, if that's what you think I'm doing, then so be it. I'm not going
51 NorCal: You asked me what "my problem is," and that if "I don't think flying in Latin America is safe then I shouldn't go." You wrote that right after I made
52 BestWestern: Except you cant press f5 and restart if you crash - thats why maturity is needed.
54 Juventus: I fly for NetJets International, before that, I flew for the airlines, flown into at least 20 Mexican airports. The part about being a "dangerous pil
55 AM744: I'm not, I'm sorry if I lead you to think that. I'm aware that it was an omission caused by understaffing due to higher level decisions. This was sho
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