VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4815 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 419):
"Look at me, I'm a low level, front line employee and with the minute amount of power I have, I busted someone today, give me a pat on the back!"?
After 21 years, he is hardly low level....."Read carefully" I guess should be one take-away from this thread.......
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4802 times:
Quoting VS11 (Reply 414):
No court can declare a price a company is charging illegal regardless of what the court think is reasonable. That cannot happen or rather it should not happen.
- This is not about the price being charges, its about the use of the product (in this context)
Quoting VS11 (Reply 414):
The only way these four people can win a case in court if they prove that they were made to believe, by some pretty explicit verbage by CO or a CO employee, that terminating the trip in CLE would not cancel the reservation. CO has never made any misrepresentations thus is not liable in anyway.
- Of course they can win this in court (as has happened in Europe) and there are currently two anti-trust cases winding their ways through the courts.
Trivia, but Justice Scalia revealed that even though he had flown to Louisiana on the vice president's plane, he bought a round-trip ticket on a commercial airline to return to Washington, because it was less expensive than the one-way fare.
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4751 times:
Quoting VS11 (Reply 4): After 21 years, he is hardly low level
Longevity is seniority in the airlines ( thats why grandma is still pushing a trolley) but does not mean one has raised oneself from low-level employee.
Can we please stay on-subject:
- The rule is fair/ correct/ defensible (or not)
- The attitude of the poster was acceptable (or not)
VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4752 times:
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 5): Quoting VS11 (Reply 414):
No court can declare a price a company is charging illegal regardless of what the court think is reasonable. That cannot happen or rather it should not happen.
- This is not about the price being charges, its about the use of the product (in this context)
Indirectly, it is - because if you discuss a court's ability to say that a pax has the right to end the trip at the connecting city WITHOUT the airline's ability to cancel subsequent legs in the trip then you are discussing the ability of the court in essence to evaluate and pass judgement on the "fairness" of the terms of the contract, one of which is price.
Court should never have to make such evaluations but look into circumstances that may invalidate the contract e.g. bad faith, misrepresentation etc.
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4721 times:
VS11
I am not disagreeing with you that the rule is there, or that there is a right to enforce a rule.
I will debate you on whether the rule is anti-competative and unfair, hence grounds for challenging the enforceability of said contract and awarding of potential refunds of any fares collected in enforcing of these contracts.
Here is an interesting link from a NY-times article on the April 4th 2004 (not the latest-- but valid)
4holer From United States, joined Feb 2002, 2217 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4712 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 412): Don't try to speak for the people at CO. I've shown more than a few this thread. Without exception, they've all told me "good job". I'll believe that over someone like you with a vindictive spirit.
Question: When you were telling your co-workers the story, were they giving you the "good job!" for catching the customers with the hidden city, or for going to a popular worldwide airline forum and bragging about how good it felt while including the name of the airline and your city? You are saying that every employee at CO you spoke to thinks going worldwide with the story was a good idea?
THAT is the crux of the flak you are getting...
If you don't expect too much from me, you might not be let down.
VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4715 times:
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 8): Can we please stay on-subject:
- The rule is fair/ correct/ defensible (or not)
- The attitude of the poster was acceptable (or not)
Who made you in charge of what the subject is? Did you open the thread?
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 8): one has raised oneself from low-level employee.
I do not know what this is supposed to mean. How do you define low-level employee? And how does he fit the criteria? Just because you want to belittle him does not make him "low level".
Typhaerion From United States, joined Jun 2005, 615 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4696 times:
And the other thing that has been bothering me here about some of the arguments that are being made is this:
CO didn't collect any additional money on the ticket that was cancelled. The $1800 was just to get them home again on a different flight. And if they would have wanted, they could have bought one-ways from CLE to PHX on anyone. It may not have been cheaper, but they had options.
If CO had collected the 1800 just to re-instate the original ticket, we would have a problem. They did not. The customers just paid to change their roundtrips from a PHX-CMH to a PHX-CLE. Again, their choice to do so. I bet it didn't feel that way at the time, they just wanted to get home, but it was. So in essence, they made a new contract at that time costing the passengers an additional $1800.
Just some more food for thought. Do you all still have the same objection if you think about it as two separate transactions, with the $1800 being on the second one? That the only repercussions of the rule are that the rest of the ticket is cancelled? Do you feel so bad if you know that they chose to go with CO over all of their other options at that time?
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4683 times:
Quoting VS11 (Reply 8): Who made you in charge of what the subject is? Did you open the thread
You are right, point taken, but there is nothing constructive about a conversation about whether the poster did his job or not when I think we all agree his his job..
Quoting VS11 (Reply 8): How do you define low-level employee
I was responding to your post "21 years, he is hardly low level" longevity does not senior make.
VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4671 times:
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 6): I will debate you on whether the rule is anti-competative and unfair
There is no universal "fairness". If someone enters into an agreement, it means they accept the terms as "fair". They are not forced to enter into the agreement. They CHOOSE to.
Is it anti-competitive? I would say NO. A quick search on farechase.yahoo.com would give you 156 results on 7 different airlines for a trip between PHX and CMH, and this is 3 weeks from now. Is the customer forced to fly CO? No. They can fly 6 other airlines. They can choose 156 possible combinations. How could you argue that there is no competition?
N202PA From United States, joined Jun 2000, 1381 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4660 times:
Quoting UAopsMGR (Reply 422): Falcon is not coming off anywhere near as arrogant as some people on this thread including yourself. You need to get off your high horse.
Until you have walked a mile in his shoes you have no right to judge.
Actually, I most certainly have a right to judge. He came here bragging about what he did - in a public forum. He made an issue of it, and put this out there to be judged by the people reading it. If he had gone about his business or taken the compliments of his like-minded coworkers as enough, -or- posted this respectfully without an attitude -or- showed an ounce or remorse or even self-preservation for his own job, he wouldn't be getting the kind of flak he is. But he continues to grandstand, argue, and just plain pretend what he has posted isn't offensive to the majority of customers (not like-minded employees) on this site.
I'm not judging his action in the capacity of his job - I am judging his action in bragging about what he did outside of the capacity of his job, and all the arrogance that has followed from him on here.
WPIAeroGuy From United States, joined Aug 2007, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4660 times:
I have never booked by phone, but if I did how do you go about accepting the Contract of Carriage?
I am not convinced that CO has any authority to cancel following segments simply because the rules are never presented to the consumer. I think CO is preying on the fact that no one reads the Terms and Conditions; when a CSA mentions the Contract of Carriage, pax assume they mean the T&C they didn't read and just give in.
Saying you "accept the CoC because you bought the ticket" is bullshit. Unless it is presented and made clear to the consumer that by buying the ticket they are accepting those specific 40 pages of rules, then THAT is fraud.
Giving someone hundreds of rules written in fine print is sleazy and annoying, but tricking them into agreeing to a document they've never seen is illegal.
VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4659 times:
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 10): I was responding to your post "21 years, he is hardly low level" longevity does not senior make
Of course, he is senior. That's how you become senior in an airline, by working long enough. There sure are other people who have higher seniority but he is very senior.
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4623 times:
Fair - -poor choise of word on my part.
Anti-competative in not just a matter of not having choice... what the lawsuits allege that the airlines maintain monopoly prices on routes to their hub airports by refusing to let travelers buy and use part of the cheaper tickets. It's also a violation of antitrust law for the carriers to collaborate and make travel agents enforce their policies.
Pcbm From United States, joined Jul 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
Quoting WPIAeroGuy (Reply 13): Of course, he is senior. That's how you become senior in an airline, by working long enough. There sure are other people who have higher seniority but he is very senior
Ok lets try this again:
If one has been at job for a long time, one has attained seniority, and can probably get more vacation days and have priority when being assigned shift. Seniority does not mean a higher level of decision making/ management has been attained.
The post stated that after 21 years the poster was no longer low-level, I hope you now understand the context of my response to that statement.
777STL From United States, joined Dec 2004, 2342 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
Quoting VS11 (Reply 1): After 21 years, he is hardly low level....."Read carefully" I guess should be one take-away from this thread.......
Seniority and being "high level"are two different things. A ticket agent, no matter his seniority, is a low level position. Now a station manager on the other hand, I would consider that to be a mid to high level position. It's his job description, not his tenure that makes him low level.
HuskyAviation From United States, joined Aug 2007, 1148 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4560 times:
I am an attorney, and while we engage in a business and want to make as much money as possible, saving the client money is an incredibly important aspect of the job. That's a "value-added" component which favors one attorney/firm over another. It's how you keep clients, and get new ones.
If I bragged to my colleagues "I just cost the client another $5,000 today!!" I would probably get a lot of quizzical looks and would likely be in the managing partner's office in a heartbeat to explain myself.
Honestly, this sounds like a power trip to me, and nothing more.
When caught on a golf course during a storm, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron. --Lee Trevino
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2795 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4550 times:
Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 9): CO didn't collect any additional money on the ticket that was cancelled. The $1800 was just to get them home again on a different flight. And if they would have wanted, they could have bought one-ways from CLE to PHX on anyone. It may not have been cheaper, but they had options.
Doesn't make a difference. The legal construct is that CO says they have a right to cancel contract 1 because of a breach of contract. If a clause is void / unenforceable that forces a client to consume the purchased service completely, there is no justification to terminate contract 1 for CO. If there is no such right to terminate, they may offer contract 2, but what they charge can be reclaimed as damages by the passengers because the expenditure was caused by the unlawful termination of contract 1. Technically, passengers are better off that way because they could have taken any airline and claim the ticket price as damages from CO (something I for sure would do under these circumstances because only this reaction would be some sort of deterrent).
Quoting VS11 (Reply 11): Is it anti-competitive? I would say NO. A quick search on farechase.yahoo.com would give you 156 results on 7 different airlines for a trip between PHX and CMH, and this is 3 weeks from now.
That is the reason why the anti-trust class action is against a bunch of airlines. The point is that they are conspiring to rip-off customers by following an IATA recommendation. And IATA is just a private organization serving the interest of its members, the airlines. Always were risky to follow recommendations of private organizations collectively if these have an impact on how the market works.
VS11 From United States, joined Jul 2001, 753 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4543 times:
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 15): Fair - -poor choise of word on my part.
It is not that the word choice is poor, it is just that the word/concept is inapplicable. What can be attractive (low price) for someone could be very expensive (high price) for someone else. No court should be allowed to make such judgements about the "fairness" of a contract, when two sides agree.
Something similar happens on a daily basis and in economics it is called Price Discrimination e.g. discounted tickets for seniors, etc. While it may be unfair for those who pay full-price to see that others get the same product for a cheaper price, it occurs on daily basis and people are fine with it.
Quoting Pcbm (Reply 15): Anti-competative in not just a matter of not having choice... what the lawsuits allege that the airlines maintain monopoly prices on routes to their hub airports by refusing to let travelers buy and use part of the cheaper tickets. It's also a violation of antitrust law for the carriers to collaborate and make travel agents enforce their policies.
Collusion is indeed illegal but in this case you cannot argue that airlines collude to keep prices high from PHX to CMH.
Falcon84 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 15020 posts, RR: 82 Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4527 times:
Quoting 4holer (Reply 7): Question: When you were telling your co-workers the story, were they giving you the "good job!" for catching the customers with the hidden city, or for going to a popular worldwide airline forum and bragging about how good it felt while including the name of the airline and your city?
It was for doing my job correctly, and making sure the company got the revenue it was due. I didn't show anyone this thread till after all that had happened.
Happy?
Quoting 4holer (Reply 7): THAT is the crux of the flak you are getting...
I hate to disagree. But some are just taking out on me the fact they don't like the rules. and are putting themselves in the shoes of those that got caught, and not taking the time to put themselves in my shoes, or any other airline employee in that situation.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 19): I'm not bashing him, but he is what he is.
And what's hysterical, you have absolutely no idea who or what I am, but are, with others, acting as judge and jury.
Typhaerion From United States, joined Jun 2005, 615 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4520 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 22): If a clause is void / unenforceable that forces a client to consume the purchased service completely, there is no justification to terminate contract 1 for CO.
But you are presupposing that the clause is void. I do not believe this is the case. I have yet to find any law saying that this would be void. Though maybe you have seen differently than I have.
And on a side note, if you think it would be so easy, why dont you just go buy a hidden city ticket and make some money. It sounds like you could force the issue all on your own. (P.s. I am just playing with this. There is absolutely no insult intended whatsoever.)
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
26 VS11: That's the catch. Just because you see someone at the ticket counter does not mean he is NOT a high-level (in your understanding) employee. After a w
27 777STL: Yes, well I'm not judging you, I'm judging your behavior - which is in itself a reflection of who you are.
28 Pcbm: VS I have appologised for using the word fair. Let me restate the argument for callenging the contract or hidden city rule in court The anticompetativ
29 Jhooper: Exactly. Most people aren't disputing the fact that CO has the "right" to collect the additional fare; nobody is going to lose their job over that. T
30 Vfw614: Just as you are pre-supposing that the clause is not void. Just because nobody has taken it all the way thorugh the courts in the US does not mean it
31 VS11: This cannot stand ground on a number of reasons one of which is very simple which I had mentioned before: Pax can buy full-fare fully refundable and
32 AirNZ: With all due respect, you are talking absolute nonsense. Firstly, CO has absolute authority to cancel because all rules are presented to the consumer
33 Pcbm: http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/310/953/495686/ VS he US Court of appeals turned down the airlines request to dismiss the case, and all
34 Falcon84: You're inferring behavior. I've told you my intent, and, in return, I guess in a very subtle way, you're simply calling me a liar. Fair enough?
35 HuskyAviation: That's the thing--I do not dispute Falcon's assertion that those are the rules; it's his job, not mine. But what about pulling that customer aside an
36 Vfw614: Tell this the courts over here and particularly offer your insight British Airways who are facing a 250.000 EUR fine every time they continue to use
37 VS11: You can bring the case, that does not mean you will win it. Here is what you see on continental.com Fare Type: Lowest Available Fare - Most Restricti
38 VS11: I have always thought I would make an excellent lawyer I do not know the details of the cases you are referring to so I cannot comment on them. But I
39 Pcbm: VS1 The case before the court is that the that airlines maintain monopoly prices on routes to their hub airports by refusing to let travelers buy and
40 Vfw614: http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/310/953/495686/ Great stuff. Seems as if we are facing interesting times with the class action moving
41 Pcbm: Even Supreme court Justice Scalia does it http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/N...s%20Wrong%20Ticket%20To%20Ride.pdf
42 Vfw614: Umm, that is not the legal issue. It is about the airlines forcing customers to pay more for getting less as fare rules prohibit them to get off the
43 Falcon84: Husky, that's not going to happen, especially if they don't show up till the day of their return, and not in the city they were supposed to leave out
44 VS11: Sorry, I still do not think there is a case. Airlines cannot be held responsible for any markets created as a result of the airlines doing business.
45 Lincoln: Neither you nor I know the exact details of this case, however, my understanding is that the $1800 was the fare difference and add-collect change fee
46 Falcon84: That is correct. They were put on a different flight than their original return because after their record cancelled, those seats were re-sold.
47 Dadoftyler: Evening, Falcon! Have three questions for you. One--are you surprised at how personal this thread has gotten? I am, frankly....it's an unpopular rule,
48 Falcon84: Are you kiddin' me? I'm flabbergasted by it, and I don't understand it. The personal insults and semi-threats have really taken me aback-and not much
49 Dadoftyler: Falcon, Thanks for the answers....and L.C.'s Sesame Chicken is a good one. I may just have a frozen guiltless chicken Cordon Bleu. If you are into fro
50 Falcon84: I'd like to see a few members get a full moon, but I don't want to get banned, ya know?
52 Vfw614: The markets do not create themselves, they are created by the airlines through fare rules. and again, it is not about prices, it is about fare rules.
53 Pcbm: Airlines are being held to task for: - Pricing of the product, charging more to fly through a hub than to the hub its-self. - Collusion for making tr
54 L410Turbolet: I am nearly certain CO did not expect him to go on a quite well-known aviation forum and gloat about how he enforced this stupid rule. No matter how
55 Falcon84: And on top of all this, more personal insults by someone who really doesn't have a clue, doesnt' know the whole situation, and is angered as much by
56 Hamad: i work for an airline too, and i am not sure why would you come to a public forum and start bragging about it. if the airline management finds out the
57 Falcon84: For the 100th time, I'm certainly not bragging, but I used the example to start the discussion on this matter. I could have made up something, but ch
58 Dadoftyler: L410, While I admit that CO"s PR department might cringe a bit at the tone with which this post was started, the simple, boiled-down facts are 1) he
59 L410Turbolet: Honestly, I couldn't care less about the rule since absolute majority of my flights are point-to-point. I just happened to read through the entire pr
60 Falcon84: Sorry to burst your bubble, but I had nothing to do with that. When have I ever supposed that I speak for others? I certainly haven't done that. I'm
61 Srbmod: Actually it was not deleted, it was archived because it had reached well over 400 posts. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.
62 AirNZ: With all due respect, an awful lot more kept it going......with the stubborness that rules should be ignored when it suited. What good came from that
63 WPIAeroGuy: Are you reading what I'm typing? The Terms and Conditions are different from the CoC. The CoC is link at the bottom of every page yes, but it is NOT
64 Lincoln: Exactly, while I may not personally think that the rule is the most sensible thing out there (though reading AA's explanation certainly lessened that
65 Lincoln: Again, the ticket you accept is the Contract of Carriage. The terms of the contract of carriage document are incorporated by reference. The confirmat
66 FrmrCAPCADET: Given the choice and even at a modestly higher price, I would always choose the airline with honest policies and straightforward pricing. I would spec
67 Snn2003: Just before you enter your payment info when booking a ticket with CO they have a link to the "terms and conditions" page....
68 Omega1153: At the risk of leading this thread further into the legal discussion and away from the aviation discussion; I’m not an expert on US contract law, b
69 Lincoln: Yes, that is my impression (but I'm not a lawyer)... the other consideration is in the US, pursuant to the Airline Deregulation Act, regulation of th
71 WPIAeroGuy: Lincoln, you've proven that CO isn't breaking any laws with its display of the CoC. I don't have an arguement there. I still can't beleive its legal t
72 Falcon84: Let's be clear about something here. Even if I had done NOTHING, the record would have cancelled, and when those folks checked in for their return-in
73 WPIAeroGuy: The fee is for changing your ticket, unless they somehow printed a different ticket with a different routing then they didn't change their ticket. Th
74 FrmrCAPCADET: Its obvious that Falcon likes the rules, and not our business to change his mind. Also our business where we do business.
75 Falcon84: I don't know about that. I do wonder some time about the archaic nature of it. Many of us have often said whoever created this pricing system was eit
76 Mirrodie: Now you are backpedaling. So had you done NOTHING, they still would had to pay CO an extra $1800. Therefore, you did not make CO any money. The syste
78 Lincoln: This is pendantic, yes, but a change was made to the ticket. Fares are published between city pairs, and when you ask CO for PHX-CMH, you get a fare
79 Falcon84: Not backpeddling at all. Had I circumvented the rules, and protected the return record, the Hidden City ticketing would have possibly not been caught
80 Vfw614: Being myself a moderator on an internet forum, I do not think that I have surrendered freedom of speech or am not allowed personal opinions. The same
81 Mirrodie: So now you are stating, when not long ago, here you said, which indicates that even without your actions, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, they STILL would have bee
82 Falcon84: What did the title of the thread say, Mirrodie? I did help in the process. I never said that I MYSELF did this. And early on in the original thread,
83 Mirrodie: Not nitpicking at all, just trying to see how your statements above add up. Frankly, they don't. At the end of the day, your actions have not affecte
84 AirNZ: I understand what you're say yes, but I have to completely disagree with your general premise. Using your own example, you clearly state that "a norm
85 Typhaerion: Mirrodie, I respect your right to have an opinion. I really do. But you are dismissing 500+ responses in this thread as a farce because of a word pla
86 Typhaerion: Vfw614, I again have to apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I was out of town for the weekend and I did not read all of this until now. I s
87 Mirrodie: Not the responses at all. The original thread starting remarks are however, IMHO, questionable. Some clarity is needed. Not at all. I'm sorry you fee
88 Bjg231: Look, we get it. You enforced the rules, the passengers were caught, and all is right in the world. But why brag about it? It's like hearing a cop bra
89 Falcon84: If they let it affect their business, they're the ones with the problem, Mirrodie, not I. The over-reacthion of some members on here has been nothing
90 Typhaerion: If your words are simple, short, curt, and sarcastic, aren't you leaving yourself open to misinterpretation? And is that the intent of the rule, to p
91 Hestaman: From the customer's point of view: a) show up at airport b) get on flight at origin city c) get off of flight at destination city From the airline's p
92 Typhaerion: This is a great point, and one that has not been brought up so much yet. There is a huge difference in the perceived complication of flying between t
93 Lincoln: Ever bought a house? Dear god, there's no way I would have made it out alive had it not been for my relator's assistance and lots of Googling (and th
94 Pope: I don't think Falcon84 did anything wrong when he collected the fee. I just find it hypocritical when he attacks employees in other industries (i.e.
95 Hestaman: With all due respect, I cannot think of any circumstance where buying a house would be comparible to buying an airline ticket point A to point B even
96 Hestaman: Furthermore, I just verified as I suspected that the mortgage document (at least for my house) is 32 pages in length. Again - I'd like to emphasize t
97 Hestaman: One final difference I'd like to point out is that when you close on a mortgage, both parties sign or initial each page of the agreement - at least m
98 Ogre727: It has been REALLY fascinating to read this thread (personal attacks and name calling aside). After 400+ posts I have not been able to make up my mind
99 Pope: I don't think the CoC rules will make the airlines go bankrupt. However, incidents like this is what causes the flying public to have little or no sy
100 Typhaerion: I would wholeheartedly agree with this. The general public does not see the complexity of all of it, hates what they have to pay to do it (despite wh
101 Lincoln: I've never actually done it, but there have been times when I know that my outbound flight is going to delayed where I've considered asking for a cop
102 WPIAeroGuy: How are you supposed to take responsibility when human intuition is telling you what you're doing is okay? In the car example, there isn't one car th
103 TLG: I would venture to guess that any passenger who is knowledgable enough to look for, and book, an itinerary including a hidden-city is also going to k
104 VS11: With due respect, this is a moot argument. PAX generally need not understand the contract of carriage. They only need do their part, which is to fly
105 Typhaerion: Friend, I dont know whether to applaud or be appauled. I know airline delays can get long, but there has got to be a better way to spend your time...
106 Falcon84: I saw the agent who ended up doing the transaction for these folks, and she told me, according to the guy who paid for it, that his mom suggested he b
107 Tonytifao: You just don't get the point why people are mad at you.
108 AirNZ: I would agree absolutely, and have repeatedly said so......cheers indeed! It certainly makes me wonder at both the mentality and hypocrisy of those h
109 Mirrodie: Whats interesting is how in this thread, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...neral_aviation/read.main/4093026/, someone is doing their job just as
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