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Kingfisher To Sell Two A340s To Other Carriers  
User currently offlineBlrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1425 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12082 times:

Kingfisher to sell two A340s to other carriers

Quote:
...
Weighed down by rising crude prices, Vijay Mallya-promoted Kingfisher Airlines is in negotiations with international carriers to sell two of the five A340-500 aircraft it had committed to buy from Airbus last year. The airline may also defer taking deliveries of 29 narrow-bodied A320s, airline sources said.
...
According to Kingfisher’s original international launch schedule, the A340s were to fly New York-Mumbai and San Francisco-Bangalore non-stop in August. The New York launch may now be kept in abeyance.

According to aviation experts, the move makes sense as A340 consumes one and a half times more fuel than the 330s and the airline has no option but to think of deployment of alternate aircraft and opt for a stop-over route rather than a direct flight.
...



47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12060 times:

I guess we know where Arik Air is getting their A340's.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11981 times:

I wish people understood the difference between 'alternate' and 'alternative'...  Angry

User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11517 times:

Mallya said he is in discussion with 2 or 3 eventual buyers for these A345s.
He also pointed out , he will receive his first A380 in 2012.


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11226 times:

They should get in communication with Airbus and change the order to A330s oder A340-600s. The market for A340-500s is very limited anyway and they won't get a good price for it. Since they are not yet built it makes more sense to build other types which come from the same line.

Cheers

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11125 times:

Btw what about the 777s Jet Airways is said to dispose off? Any news?

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10878 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 2):
I wish people understood the difference between 'alternate' and 'alternative'...

So do I ... used as a noun, alternate and alternative are interchangeable, and both perfectly valid. The word 'alternate' can be used in a different context to mean 'every other', like 'alternate Sundays' ... but it can mean the same as 'alternative', and is fine is this context.



Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineRICARDOAB From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9648 times:

I read somewhere that Armavia are looking to acquire a -500 for services to LAX and PEK. Maybe they are a customer?

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8422 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9649 times:
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I am surprised since Kingfisher was going to be so "international" to LHR. JFK and SFO.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9468 times:



Quoting A350 (Reply 4):
They should get in communication with Airbus and change the order to A330s oder A340-600s.

Might work for the planes not yet built or not yet being built, but not for the the planes they are looking to sell. It's too late to change those, as they physically exist.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9308 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
I am surprised since Kingfisher was going to be so "international" to LHR. JFK and SFO.

Well, those plans were more than just a little bit fantastic in the first place  Smile


User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9305 times:



Quoting FCKC (Reply 3):
he will receive his first A380 in 2012

and if I were him, I'd start looking for a buyer for that big bird right about now Big grin


User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9011 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
I am surprised since Kingfisher was going to be so "international" to LHR. JFK and SFO.

They are now talking about a stop in AMS for the JFK route with an A330-200 instead of the direct A340-500 flight. I believe LHR will be an A330-200 route as well with SFO probably remaining an A340-500 route.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineHaan From South Africa, joined Aug 2004, 289 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8669 times:

Perhaps SAA, they are urgently looking at 3 long haul aircraft.

User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8535 times:



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 12):
They are now talking about a stop in AMS for the JFK route with an A330-200 instead of the direct A340-500 flight. I believe LHR will be an A330-200 route as well with SFO probably remaining an A340-500 route.

Aside from Vijay Mallya and posters on A.net, is anyone at Kingfisher Operations aware of these routes?!?! Big grin


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8427 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):
Aside from Vijay Mallya and posters on A.net, is anyone at Kingfisher Operations aware of these routes?!?!

I posted in that thread that was referenced to try and get people to see reality. Unfortunately, it seems that people who either live there, or travel there a couple of times a year, have this thing in their mind that Bangalore is LHR times 100 as far as aviation traffic is concerned.

From what little I know, I doubt Bangalore can support a stand-alone flight to any destination outside of nearby Asian countries. It's best left to the non-Indian carriers, who think they can make money from BLR. Unless things change dramatically, Kingfisher should just stop right now, before its too late, and resign itself to be a bit-player in the regional aviation scene.

I'd love to be proved wrong, of course!

Just as an aside, I don't know much about Kingfisher and I've never been to Bangalore (or anywhere in India besides Bombay and a couple of nearby cities), but I have a keen interest in the aviation developments in India (whether actual, or just fantasized!).


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8631 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

The fact is, Kingfisher's ambitions can be quashed quite easily for almost zero cost by alliances doing transit points in Europe. This is available now and Kingfisher has no mandate to come in right on top of vast, existing services on blue chip airlines. What will they offer over and above KLM, Lufthansa etc?

As for the nonstops, Kingfisher is not as capable as, say, American or Delta who I imagine might start additional India services as they become necessary from their hubs. Kingfisher would never have hubs to consolidate their USA demand, so they are at a considerable disadvantage vs the Americans in doing these flights. There is no free money to be had for Kingfisher.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8302 times:



Quoting A350 (Reply 4):
They should get in communication with Airbus and change the order to A330s oder A340-600s

The first five A345 for IT are assembled and flying. I don't know how far their second batch of another five is down the production lane, but it might be too late to change them into different planes.


Question remaining: Will the demand US-India be big enough to fill A332 with a stopover in Europe or elsewhere? I doubt that, given the looming recession in the US and the increase of ticket prices, which will have to come to compensate high oil prices. That might reduce the number of people in India who can afford to travel to the US, weak dollar or not. I read that 9W is doing really bad with their BOM-PVG-SFO route.

What does this mean for their A388 operations? I thought they were for non-stop US-India flights, too.

Quoting Haan (Reply 13):
Perhaps SAA, they are urgently looking at 3 long haul aircraft.

Was rumored already for the TG birds. I'd love to see that, they'd be the first all-A340-versions-operator.


User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

Should IT keep a pair of 345s would be GREAT .

Should the other ones go to SAA would be GREAT TOO !!!

dennys


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7060 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
Will the demand US-India be big enough to fill A332 with a stopover in Europe or elsewhere?

Yes, there's plenty of demand. But from Bombay and Delhi and only to a couple of American cities. There isn't near enough from Bangalore to any one city outside Asia (in my opinion) for any airline to turn a profit.


User currently offlineUPS757Pilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

Wonder if US Airways would be interested?

User currently offlineA340Crew From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

I was just going to say US, are they still shopping around for an A340 for china?

User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6122 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 19):
There isn't near enough from Bangalore to any one city outside Asia (in my opinion) for any airline to turn a profit.

That's not true at all. LH, AF and BA are doing very well on their BLR-Europe sectors. What is true however, is that the existing demand, significant as it is, is being adequately met by the aforementioned carriers, leaving little room for newcomers like IT to turn a profit on a new BLR-Europe route.

Now, IT's proposed BLR-SFO nonstop route could actually be immensely profitable if

(a) they used a smaller aircraft with the sort of range the route requires (B787 or A350)

(b) they structured the cabin arrangement to cater to high-paying business clientele.

and most importantly,

(c) they launch the route before another carrier does!!!


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5591 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5991 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 22):

(a) they used a smaller aircraft with the sort of range the route requires (B787 or A350)

The route would be quite a stretch for any 787 or A350 except the proposed A350-900R. The standard 787 and A350 variants are not ULH planes; they have similar range to other long-haulers like the A346, 77E, and 77W.

Realistically, the 77L and A345 are the only two aircraft that will be available for quite some time that can handle this route. Assuming they can get the necessary fare premium to turn a profit -- which is a very big assumption for a 7600 nm flight -- an A345 is not a horrible choice.

One assumes the A345 will be replaced by an A350-900R when it is available if IT is still in the long-haul business at that point.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5979 times:

My post on BLR-SFO non-stop in the technical forum. In this post I compare the economics of BLR-SFO non-stop on A345 versus B773ER on BLR-HKG-SFO. Unless the non-stop can earn a significant premium, say 20-25%, it is unlikely to be competitive against one-stops from BA, CX, LH and others.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/230493/

Quotes:
BLR-SFO ia about GC 7,600 nm, and adding for deviation from GC route and accounting for head wind should take the effective distance to 8,500 nm.

A345 will burn about 50,000 gallons, and has potential cargo capacity of 20,000 lbs.

BLR-HKG (2,145 nm) and HKG-SFO(6,019 nm) add up to about 8,200 nm. Adding deviation from GC route, and accounting for head wind gives the following:

773ER will burn about 56,000 gallons, and has the potential to carry 85,000 lbs of cargo.

773ER's fuel cost is higher by $24,000. Adding $11,000 for stop over charge at HKG gives a total of $35,000. It has the potential to earn additional passenger revenue to the tune of $25,000 (50 seats X 70% load X $700), and cargo revenue to the tune of $50,000 (65,000 lb X 50% load X $1.50), for a total of $75,000. Add to it another $25,000 for seats sold on BLR-HKG, and HKG-SFO sectors, takes the total to $100,000.

The net gain on one-stop flight is about $65,000 per trip. Subtracting $30,000 for non-stop premium still leaves a $30,000 advantage to 773ER over A345 non-stop flight.


25 PM : Not really. They are used as such in North America (though not elsewhere) but every text I've consulted on English usage says it is incorrect to do s
26 Boeing747_600 : Well, so much for Boeing's much-ballyhooed "any two points o the globe" claptrap. I called their BS years ago and I knew I'd be proved right.
27 Airlittoral : There was a thread a few days ago about IT's plans to open BLR-AMS-JFK, a plan slammed by several posters for not making any sense. Maybe IT is start
28 Misbeehavin : I should have been clearer, I guess. What I meant was I doubt there is enough O&D traffic (premium or otherwise) from Bangalore to any single city ou
29 Ikramerica : Expansion plans based on the whims of a rich guy and what he "wants to do" usually don't pan out well. Expansion plans based on filling a market need
30 Post contains images Thorben : Too bad he didn't order 5 A346. Honestly, Vijay Mallya -or in your words: "the rich guy" did certainly not become a billionaire through being a bad b
31 SeaBosDca : So I guess all those feverish imaginations of Keesje's did come to pass...
32 Bond007 : You should have perhaps looked it up! It's fine by Webster's. Jimbo
33 Ikramerica : No doubt. That's why I stated two cases. And maybe it's a combination of the two, who knows. But even people who got rich by being great businessmen
34 LAXDESI : If things do not improve for the Indian carriers on India-USA sectors over the next few years, then an alliance between IT and 9W may be a possibility
35 PM : Mmmm, I was afraid of that. Maybe they'll see the error of their ways and correct it in the next edition! Hence the old joke: Q. "How do you make a s
36 LeftWing : Just like Jet...IT brought in experts from SQ, to start their long haul ops...and look what SQ has done with their 345's....full J class to JFK....
37 Alangirvan : If IT are stuck with A345s, no one wants them at this time, would they be really bad planes to operate on one stop services to the USA? We know the co
38 Boeing747_600 : Agreed, but O&D traffic was never a consideration for LH, BA and AF when they introduced their BLR services. In fact I doubt that O&D traffic is a st
39 Abrelosojos : = Oh God, not SQ "experts". Cheers, A.
40 Misbeehavin : Yep - my point exactly: Random question: did this rich guy dude make his millions on his own, or was it inherited? The answer to that might explain s
41 LeftWing :
42 KiwiRob : He inherited a medium sized company from his father in 1983, he has now turned that company into India's largest brewery, I think he knows what he's
43 AirLittoral : I don't think it's that easy. You don't "find a spot" in the extremely competitive european market. And even then, fair enough, but how on earth is i
44 DLPMMM : Unless IT becomes a member of Skyteam (whoch they are rumored to become soon).
45 AirLittoral : That's being discussed in another thread about IT
46 Post contains links LAXDESI : I read at India-airliners site that IT may be looking to sell two A345s for $90 million each. It was also suggested that they paid about $100 million
47 ScottB : Um, no. The fact that someone is successful in the beer business doesn't necessarily imply that he will understand or succeed in any other business h
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