OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 5755 times:
There are only so many two letter codes to go around. IATA started adding numbers to codes when the letters "ran out". So you often have to take what you can get. Many older carriers have codes similar to their names because there were far fewer airlines so the codes could generally match up to letters in the airline's name: AA=American Airlines, NW=NorthWest etc...
As airlines proliferated you started seeing some strange codes assigned to airlines because they quite simply had to give them something and the more obvious codes were spoken for.
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3121 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 hour ago) and read 5623 times:
Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 3): So why aren't they using three letters then ?
IATA uses two letters. IATA is mostly used for reservation purposes. ICAO uses three letters. ICAO is mostly used for navigation purposes, hence the need for three letters (plenty of airlines around that do not need a IATA code because they do not take passenger reservations - think charter airlines, cargo carriers, etc...).
There's been talk for years of switching reservation systems to the ICAO three-letter code, but for some reason, it isn't happening. One of the purpose of the switch would be to stop dual-use IATA codes. While I can't think of a specific example, there are cases of two airlines sharing the same IATA code, due to lack of available codes. When such an overlap happen, IATA makes sure the two airlines are both small and very distinct geographically speaking (eg a domestic carrier in Australia and another one in South Africa) so that even though they share the same code, there's absolutely no possible confusion as to which operates what flight (for booking purposes).
I read on here that B6 stood for the "big six" (american, continental, united, delta, us, northwest) and was a "pun" that jetBlue was better than the "big six," or B6
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5464 times:
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 4): there are cases of two airlines sharing the same IATA code
For example I believe that:
AX has been allocated by IATA to Air Aurora (USA) and Binter Mediterraneo (Spain) and that CTA (Switzerland)">BB was allocated to both Balair CTA (Switzerland) and Seaborne Aviation (USA). Whether these allocations were concurrent or consecutive I am not sure.
Ridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 912 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
IATA gives new airlines the listing of available codes. Most of the 'legend" surrounding codes is made up after the assignment of the new code.
On occasion, airlines request to be re-coded, as in the case of Air New Zealand, who up into sometime in the 80's had the code TE, and Aloha up into sometime in the early 80's had the code TS. (recoding takes a long time)
the code of HP for America West was actually given to an upstart company named Hawaiian Pacific Airlines, who was to offer low cost service from a number of cities to Hawaii, went through the certification processes etc, but ran into financial problems and could not keep going-and at the same time, Ed Beauvais was attempting to get America West underway, and had started the certification process, but instead changed courses and they bought the certificate of Hawaiian Pacific to hasten getting into the air.
AirAmericaC46 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 590 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5393 times:
Hello to Andz of South Africa:
Air Namibia is an off-shoot of the airline of Southwest Africa (which was previously a part of South Africa during the apartheid). IIRC the name of that airline was SudWest Lugdiens so it does make sense to inherit its SW code.
AirAm
Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8298 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5372 times:
Quoting AirAmericaC46 (Reply 10): Air Namibia is an off-shoot of the airline of Southwest Africa (which was previously a part of South Africa during the apartheid). IIRC the name of that airline was SudWest Lugdiens so it does make sense to inherit its SW code.
AirAm
Almost correct... Nambia was known as South West Africa before independence in 1989. Air Namibia was Namib Air from 1978 to 1991, prior to that it was known as Suidwes Lugdiens. The Namib Air name is much older; the Walvis Bay company which held that name became a subsidiary of Suidwes Lugdiens in 1966.
FlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 822 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5303 times:
Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 1): WN - We're Nuts (IIRC, someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
Fun nemonic created by SWA (or someone) to help people remember is isn't SW. But, SWA didn't get the 2 letter code 'cause they're nuts.
This question pops up on A.net every now and again, the whole 2 letter code history and resulting odd codes. I think it would be faily interesting, because the two letter system didn't just appear as the result of . No, I suspect to understand the how and why on the 2 letter code is to understand Airline Central Reservation Offices, the Telex, early Airline Reservation Systems how they evolved in to Computer Reservation Systems and then into Global Distribution Systems.
I'd love to hear more from the ticketing agents aboard a.net
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21473 posts, RR: 24 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 4): There's been talk for years of switching reservation systems to the ICAO three-letter code, but for some reason, it isn't happening.
There was a plan to use 3-letter codes for reservations and ticketing purposes at least 20 years ago but the cost to change systems, tickets, etc. was in the many millions of $$ and airlines thus preferred to stick with the 2-character codes as long as possible, and introduce alpha-numeric codes to increase the number of combinations.
Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 9): On occasion, airlines request to be re-coded, as in the case of Air New Zealand, who up into sometime in the 80's had the code TE, and Aloha up into sometime in the early 80's had the code TS. (recoding takes a long time)
Codes are often reassigned after they again become available, usually after remaining dormant for a few years. For example, Air New Zealand's old TE code is now used by Lithuanian Airlines and Aloha's original TS code is now used by Canadian carrier Air Transat. Air Canada's old TC code (before they changed their name from Trans-Canada Air Lines in 1964) was reassigned to Air Tanzania. British Caledonian's BR code is now EVA Air in Taiwan. The former OZ code of U.S. regional carrier Ozark Airlines (purchased by TWA in 1986) is now Asiana in Korea. Many other similar code reassignments.
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5234 times:
Another reason for not going to 3 letter codes might be confusion with 3 letter airport codes. I can never remember whether they are ICAO or IATA. In the USA and Canada the 4 letter codes are mosty the same as 3 letter codes with the region letter in front.
AznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 671 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5203 times:
Qantas Airways got its code QF because they insisted that Qantas is Forever
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21473 posts, RR: 24 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5176 times:
Quoting AznCSA4QF744ER (Reply 15): Qantas Airways got its code QF because they insisted that
Qantas is Forever
Qantas was EM (for Empire) until sometime in the early/mid 1960s. They adopted the QF code after they dropped the word "Empire" from their name which had been Qantas Empire Airways.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19706 posts, RR: 56 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5144 times:
Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 3): So why aren't they using three letters then ?
Because those can be just as confusing as the two-letter codes. TRS for AirTran? Makes sense if you know that their radio callsign is "citrus", but how many average travellers know that? And some people are going to think that CAL (China Airlines) is Continental (which is actually COA). And then you have confusion with the three-letter codes used for airports. The whole system has been built around two letters for airlines, and three letters for airports. You're going to end up with some codes that don't make sense, but that's just the way it is.
Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 14): Another reason for not going to 3 letter codes might be confusion with 3 letter airport codes. I can never remember whether they are ICAO or IATA.
IATA airport codes are three letters, ICAO are four.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13711 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5145 times:
Because they are not abbreviations of anything. They are completely arbitrary alphanumeric characters someone thought up to represent the carrier concerned. And these do not need to mean anything.
Good when they mean something but they will work just as well with characters drawn randomly.
Quoting Mir (Reply 17): TRS for AirTran? Makes sense if you know that their radio callsign is "citrus",
Thing is these codes don't need to mean anything to the traveller. CO123 is most often C-O-1-2-3 to the average traveller and hardly ever Continental 123.
In the age of electronic ticketing, the actual name of the carrier and of the airport are bound to be on the email you print off the computer. Unlikely to be any confusion between 3-letter/4-letter codes because they are just codes.
ICAO code has the advantage of being unique for EACH operator and EACH airport in the whole wide world, however large or small or miniscule.
On the contrary IATA codes also cover some train, ferry and bus services. But they can also be given ICAO codes easily to make it universal for the whole transport industry.
And the real reason we still have IATA codes is cost. No one is willing to stump up with the money to change all the computer systems and databases. It's not cheap considering how many individual systems there are.
If people are so concerned they should try to find out what their reservation code mean. Reservation codes like D56X9F have never been complained about. So what's the big deal if my flight number is FG6IQ98X?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21473 posts, RR: 24 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5067 times:
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 19): On the contrary IATA codes also cover some train, ferry and bus services. But they can also be given ICAO codes easily to make it universal for the whole transport industry.
I'm not sure ICAO would agree to permit use of their codes for activities that do not involve aviation. They're a very political organization (a United Nations agency) and getting all the member governments to agree on anything is usually difficult.
On the other hand, IATA, being an airline trade assocation and not a governmental body, can do anything they want with their codes, although if memory correct there was also quite a bit of initial reluctance to assign IATA codes to train/bus companies, railway stations etc.
TN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4995 times:
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 19): Because they are not abbreviations of anything. They are completely arbitrary alphanumeric characters someone thought up to represent the carrier concerned. And these do not need to mean anything.
Although, even after all these years, it's still strange not to think of Frontier as FL (I always advocated a code switch with Airtran). Some of us will always associate codes with their old, long time owners, regardless of who might use them today. Going to three digits would be pretty confusing. The usage of numbers gives quite a few additional options too, although I do not believe any airline has a code with two numbers together as it's code.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21473 posts, RR: 24 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4971 times:
Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 21): The usage of numbers gives quite a few additional options too, although I do not believe any airline has a code with two numbers together as it's code.
.
Yes, there's always at least one letter. Airlines actually do have an all-numeric 3-digit IATA code which is used for accounting purposes. It's the first 3 digits of every ticket number. A few examples:
AA - 001
CO - 005
NW - 012
UA - 016
AC - 014
BA - 125
LH - 220
CX - 160
QF - 081
LX - 724
SQ - 618
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4939 times:
Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 9): On occasion, airlines request to be re-coded, as in the case of Air New Zealand, who up into sometime in the 80's had the code TE
Air New Zealand were allocated the IATA code TE because uintil 1965 they were known as TEAL, an acronym for Tasman Empire Airlines. Here is one of their Electras:
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21473 posts, RR: 24 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4862 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 23): Air New Zealand were allocated the IATA code TE because uintil 1965 they were known as TEAL, an acronym for Tasman Empire Airlines.
Argonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 417 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4818 times:
Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 9): On occasion, airlines request to be re-coded, as in the case of Air New Zealand, who up into sometime in the 80's had the code TE
Quoting VV701 (Reply 23): Air New Zealand were allocated the IATA code TE because uintil 1965 they were known as TEAL
IIRC, the change came about when long-haul TEAL (Tasman Empire Airways, code TE) merged with domestic NZNAC (New Zealand National Airways Corp., code NZ) to become Air New Zealand, and the combined airline adopted the more obvious of the two codes.
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. No, I suspect to understand the how and why on the 2 letter code is to understand Airline Central Reservation Offices, the Telex, early Airline Reservation Systems how they evolved in to Computer Reservation Systems and then into Global Distribution Systems. 
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