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WN On Track To Be #1 Carrier At LAX By Nov  
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7665 times:

The L.A. Times reported a couple of days ago that by November, WN is expected to be the #1 carrier at LAX.

Southwest Airlines will soon be No. 1 at four of five area airports

Quote:
Southwest Airlines Co. this fall is on track to become the busiest carrier at Los Angeles International Airport and at three of the four regional airports in Southern California as high fuel prices force its main competitors to cut flights.

[SNIP]

After the other major airlines are finished making their expected cuts this fall, Southwest will have shot from its No. 3 spot to knock American Airlines from the No. 1 perch at LAX. By November, Southwest will account for nearly 17% of all flights at LAX, the nation's fourth-largest airport.

I didn't see that one coming.

LoneStarMike

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

A little deceiving.

With their express partners UA + AA will still retain the number 1 and 2 spots at LAX even with their fall cuts.

SWA has been hemmed in now for near 10 years at LAX stuck at about ~110 daily departures due lack of growth gates.

As far as the other airports, SWA already is the #1 carrier at majority of the California's airports having held the top spot at SAN, ONT, SNA, BUR, SMF, SJC, OAK.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7645 times:



Quoting LoneStarMike (Thread starter):
I didn't see that one coming

You know, had you asked me, I would have said the WN was already LAX's largest carrier by passenger volume... shows how much I know  Wink

Reminds me of the buttons PSA had after they moved to the newly-constructed terminal 1:


(From http://www.psa-history.org/museum/buttons.html)

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineLax44 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

LAXintl,

What's the latest on HP moving terminals to free up gates at Terminal 1? I know it's been an ongoing thing.


User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7505 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
A little deceiving.

With their express partners UA + AA will still retain the number 1 and 2 spots at LAX even with their fall cuts.

SWA has been hemmed in now for near 10 years at LAX stuck at about ~110 daily departures due lack of growth gates.

I agree! I can't really speaks for AA but UA & UAX combine that's more than 110 daily departures. UAX alone have more than 110 even with the cut back on flights.


User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7425 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
A little deceiving.

With their express partners UA + AA will still retain the number 1 and 2 spots at LAX even with their fall cuts.

Ummm....well, no, the way you (and most of the legacies) represent it is a little deceiving.

The news piece says that Southwest will become the largest *carrier* at LAX. Singular. Your claim of AA and UA having more service includes their commuter partners. Sorry, AA and their Eagle affiliate are different airlines. So are UA and UA Express. They do indeed market themselves under shared codes but operate as different companies, and different airlines. So if you are looking at the largest *carrier* at LAX.....then indeed, Southwest, with 127 daily departures (Mondays), is on track to claim #1.

And as for US leaving T1....I've been hearing it's "about to happen" since Clinton was in office. It would be nice--and who knows, hopefully it will happen.

Before Clinton's DAUGHTER becomes President.  duck 

DOT


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7383 times:



Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 5):
Sorry, AA and their Eagle affiliate are different airlines. So are UA and UA Express. They do indeed market themselves under shared codes but operate as different companies, and different airlines.

They operate functionally as the same airline from the consumer perspective. They interchange themselves on routes. You book one ticket, there is one frequent flyer program, they share gate agents and check-in counters at LAX and hubs, etc.

You are basically claiming that if you contract workers to work for your company, they don't really work for you on a macro level. That's not true. It still counts toward the bottom line. It's very different from a simple marketing partnership or even a codeshare.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7349 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
They operate functionally as the same airline from the consumer perspective. They interchange themselves on routes. You book one ticket, there is one frequent flyer program, they share gate agents and check-in counters at LAX and hubs, etc.

You are basically claiming that if you contract workers to work for your company, they don't really work for you on a macro level. That's not true. It still counts toward the bottom line. It's very different from a simple marketing partnership or even a codeshare.

I couldn't disagree with you more. They *absolutely* are a glorified codeshare. The affiliated carriers operate under different operating certificates--retain their airline codes, which is exactly how they are tracked in the air traffic control system--and report numbers individually to the DOT. How much more separate do you want them to be? The news piece is correct. In order to be correct under *your* definition, the sentance should have been "AA will retain their #1 position as the largest ALLIANCE of carriers at LAX."


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

Will Southwest ever consider a larger 737 aircraft to accommodate growth at LAX and other impacted airports?

There must be Southwest routes from LAX where the better economics of a larger aircraft will allow it to increase market share and profits.


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1992 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7280 times:

If WN were to get more gates at LAX... what expansion opportunities are there? New routes? Expanded frequencies?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7253 times:



Quoting Lax44 (Reply 3):
What's the latest on HP moving terminals to free up gates at Terminal 1? I know it's been an ongoing thing.

I say its pretty much dead now as US recently finished several million dollar remodel of its facilities in T-1 combining old HP and US facilities. Everything from ramp facilities, bagroom, back offices and club lounge got facelifts.

Last possible hope was likely about 2 years ago when there was a push to move TZ in with SWA to facilities the Hawaii code-share when LAWA was involved trying to broker a multi airline deal however it ultimately broke down.

Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 5):
Ummm....well, no, the way you (and most of the legacies) represent it is a little deceiving.

While technically yes different operating certificates the express partners operate seamlessly with their respective mainline carriers footprint and at scheduling direction of the mainline carriers.

For the consumer also, they dont think - hey let me call Skywest, Republic or Mesa airlines to book my ticket between A and B, they call the appropriate mainline carrier which is fully responsible for the marketing and management of the express flying, and who get the revenues for such flying.

So at the end of the day, yes UAX or AE passengers are very much those of UA or AA themselves as if not for the mainline carrier there would have been no express flight to begin with.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
They operate functionally as the same airline from the consumer perspective.

 checkmark  Absolutely.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7200 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
While technically yes different operating certificates the express partners operate seamlessly with their respective mainline carriers footprint and at scheduling direction of the mainline carriers.

The newspaper piece didn't discuss what carrier and its partners would be #1. It said carrier. Singular. By every legal definition, irrespective of what they market themselves as, UA/UAX and AA/AE are completely separate entities. You can talk "seemless service" all you want, but they are separate (if allied) carriers.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24884 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7149 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 5):
Sorry, AA and their Eagle affiliate are different airlines. So are UA and UA Express. They do indeed market themselves under shared codes but operate as different companies, and different airlines.

They operate functionally as the same airline from the consumer perspective. They interchange themselves on routes. You book one ticket, there is one frequent flyer program, they share gate agents and check-in counters at LAX and hubs, etc.

NW and KL have been doing all of those things for 16 years (except one frequent flyer program) and sharing revenues/profits as part of their North Atlantic joint venture, but they're certainly not the same airline.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

So here is some facts from data reported to the DOT for domestic departures from LAX, SkyWest is the largest carrier for May (the most recent release) at 3775 departures for the month, Southwest had 3712 departures.

Now if you add in the international departures of SkyWest you would be around 3850 departures.

Averaging that per day domestically SkyWest flys about 121-122 flights a day and Southwest is 119-120 flights a day. When you add in SkyWest international flights it's about 124-125 flights a day and this is before the summer ops increase SkyWest would have had in Jun.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7087 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 14):
So here is some facts from data reported to the DOT for domestic departures from LAX

This is the fantastic thing about statistics -- you can come up with one to say almost anything  Smile

For example, SkyWest may have had the largest number of departures, but since WN operates larger aircraft, I would be surprised if SkyWest actually enplaned more passengers.

So you have airline X which is the largest based on number of departures, and
Airline Y which is the largest based on the number of enplaned passengers, and
Airline Z which is the largest based on revenue, and...

Then you can throw in all of the codeshare/partner crud and...

[A few years ago I flew an AS flight number, booked with AS SFO-LAX-SFO, operated by AA... did both of them count me as passengers?]

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7070 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
[A few years ago I flew an AS flight number, booked with AS SFO-LAX-SFO, operated by AA... did both of them count me as passengers?]

That I could tell as "no" but the revenue would be another story!  Smile  Smile


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3569 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7047 times:



Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 12):
The newspaper piece didn't discuss what carrier and its partners would be #1. It said carrier. Singular. By every legal definition, irrespective of what they market themselves as, UA/UAX and AA/AE are completely separate entities. You can talk "seemless service" all you want, but they are separate (if allied) carriers.

You're really splitting hairs with this. If you really want to muddy the waters, AE and AA are owned by the same holding company. So are they really separate? Technically, yes. But functionally they're not. AE exists to serve AA. AE doesn't service any other airline.



PHX based
User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6939 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 14):
So here is some facts from data reported to the DOT for domestic departures from LAX, SkyWest is the largest carrier for May (the most recent release) at 3775 departures for the month, Southwest had 3712 departures.

Now if you add in the international departures of SkyWest you would be around 3850 departures.

Averaging that per day domestically SkyWest flys about 121-122 flights a day and Southwest is 119-120 flights a day. When you add in SkyWest international flights it's about 124-125 flights a day and this is before the summer ops increase SkyWest would have had in Jun.

Don't forget to include SkyWest / Delta Connection flights too.


User currently offlineDadoftyler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6933 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 17):
You're really splitting hairs with this. If you really want to muddy the waters, AE and AA are owned by the same holding company. So are they really separate? Technically, yes. But functionally they're not. AE exists to serve AA. AE doesn't service any other airline

777,

I just don't see how I'm splitting hairs. Functionally they are entirely separate airlines. Do their crews interchange? Do ERJ crews show up on S80 flights? Are their crews paid the same, and do they fly under the same contracts? Do their ground agents operate under the same contracts? No to all of the above.

Is the marketing of the airlines seemless? Absolutely! And isn't that the point? "We're the same airline! Really! Ignore that man behind the green curtain!....."

DOT


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6933 times:



Quoting AznCSA4QF744ER (Reply 18):
Don't forget to include SkyWest / Delta Connection flights too.

Those numbers do include DCI flights. SkyWest might pick up a few more flights on the DCI side in September but many of the current XJT routes for DCI are going away.


User currently offlineBriGuyinHou From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 5):
Ummm....well, no, the way you (and most of the legacies) represent it is a little deceiving.

The news piece says that Southwest will become the largest *carrier* at LAX. Singular. Your claim of AA and UA having more service includes their commuter partners. Sorry, AA and their Eagle affiliate are different airlines. So are UA and UA Express. They do indeed market themselves under shared codes but operate as different companies, and different airlines. So if you are looking at the largest *carrier* at LAX.....then indeed, Southwest, with 127 daily departures (Mondays), is on track to claim #1.

By that logic I did not eat at McDonald's yesterday morning for breakfast. I ate my Egg McMuffin at Tejano Ventures, Inc, an independent McDonald's franchisee.

Quoting Dadoftyler (Reply 8):
The news piece is correct. In order to be correct under *your* definition, the sentance should have been "AA will retain their #1 position as the largest ALLIANCE of carriers at LAX."

I disagree. From m-w.com:



Main Entry: car·ri·er
Pronunciation: ˈker-ē-ər, ˈka-rē-
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: one that carries : bearer, messenger
2 a: an individual or organization engaged in transporting passengers or goods for hire


A carrier is an organization, or a group of airlines working together to transport passengers and goods for hire. To be technically corrrect would be to say Southwest Airlines is the largest aircraft operator at LAX.

It is the newspapers job to report factual information in a way their audience can or is able to decipher it. The piece was written in a very large metropolitan newspaper that has a very broad reach and audience. It was not written for a publication that has a specific audience (like a trade journal or magazine)

[Edited 2008-07-27 16:43:53]


I've travelled the world and the seven seas. Everybody is looking for something.
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6799 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 17):
AE exists to serve AA. AE doesn't service any other airline.

Actually...

CO 8845 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3110] SAN-LAX
CO 8837 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3045] LAX-SAN

NW 5586 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3086] SAN-LAX
NW 5583 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3083] LAX-SAN

DL 7596 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3192] SAN-LAX
DL 7585 operated by American Eagle Airlines [also operates as AA3049] LAX-SAN

Etc.

As far as I know this arrangement only exists on select intra-California flights to/from LAX, but AE does indeed service other airlines (including all of the domestic members of SkyTeam)

It's also worth noting that it doesn't look like you can buy SAN-LAX as a standalone segment on CO, NW, or DL

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 days ago) and read 6690 times:

Alrighty.....

here's the top five operating carriers by daily departures - for April 2008 (domestic only):

OO: 123.8 daily
WN: 116.1 daily
UA: 78.3 daily
AA: 78.1 daily
MQ: 46 daily

here's the top five ticketing carriers by daily departures - for April 2008 (domestic only):

UA: 192.2 daily
AA: 124.1 daily
WN: 116.1 daily
DL: 38.9 daily
AS: 37.3 daily

here's the top five operating carriers by daily seats - for April 2008 (domestic only):

WN: 15,750.1 daily
AA: 13,139.5 daily
UA: 12,491.2 daily
DL: 6,351.5 daily
OO: 5,101.2 daily

here's the top five ticketing carriers by daily seats - for April 2008 (domestic only):

UA: 17,309.2
WN: 15,750.1
AA: 14,890.4
DL: 6,634.7
AS: 4,102.1

here's the top five operating carriers by daily passengers - for April 2008 (domestic only):

AA: 11,392.9
UA: 10,503.4
WN: 10,091.1
DL: 5,435.7
OO: 3,467.9


here's the top five ticketing carriers by daily passengers - for April 2008 (domestic only):

UA: 13,745.4
AA: 12,578.2
WN: 10,091.1
DL: 5,661.6
AS: 3,194.2

So tell me, who is the number one carrier at LAX?  Smile


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6452 times:

MOBflyer's post wins the thread.

And this thread is proof that people will argue about anything on the internet, no matter how stupid...or how little anyone cares.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6062 times:

Wow, 10091.1 pax/15750.1 seats = 64.07 % average LF. I assumed it would be higher than that at a station like LAX.

25 LACA773 : I've wondered about this too. It's too bad there isn't more apron space @ T1 where they could do some remote parking.
26 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : I would consider WN to be the biggest mess at LAX..ever see that Terminal on busy days, the crowds pour onto the street, maintaining the cattle heard
27 727LOVER : But they report to the airports and to the DOT seperately.
28 LACA773 : [ This is so true! It can be a hellish nightmare. You rarely see any of the other terminals like this (at least I haven't).
29 Txagkuwait : This reminds me of an old quote...I believe it was Casey Stengel, when asked about a certain restaurant or nightclub, made the comment "Oh, nobody go
30 LAXdude1023 : To each his own dude. It is. T1 Sucks. It takes forever to get through security there. Theres always lines out the door there. No thanks.
31 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : Thats great! Enjoy it, thats why we have choices in this country. Calling it a mess, was very much correct, it is a mess. If people want to stand in
32 PlanesNTrains : Well, you're the one who started it by having to make the "cattle heard philosophy" comment. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but if your
33 PlanesNTrains : Oh, I forgot to add....HUH??? You sound bitter and slightly, uh, like someone who has been sipping the wine. -Dave
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