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New Zealand Aviation Thread #37  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10261 times:
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Wel come to New Zealand Aviation #37, in #36 http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4071282/ we discussed:

- NZs snack service on domestic flight. The Banana chips are actually really good!
- Pac Blue staff in limbo over their jobs
- Air Nelsons strike
- Qantas cuts 1500 jobs
- NZs ATR replacement
- Australia is committed to a single market with New Zealand
- PEK and Asian services
- Masterton and Paraparaumu services
- NZs B744s vs NZ B772s
- Pac Blue and NZ announce their membership to the checked-in bag fee club
- NZs Pacific Island services
- New Zealand Maori's
- Korumans usual B772/B744 route structure
- NZs Y+ seating levels/comfort on B744s vs B772s

So that was the Thread #36 summary, so lets start those engines and get cleared for take off

216 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10239 times:
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With DJs new baggage charges, some of DJs fares will be reduced by upto $20 to help offset the new baggage charges, with the introduction of a new fare type

User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10227 times:

As a matter of fact, PVG is doing a lot better than PEK. Flights are constantly oversold in recent months, especially the PVG-AKL sector. Remember when NZ launched PVG, we heard that the forward bookings were even better than SFO first started. And we also heard them say PVG was a successful route. We haven't heard they say that to PEK, have we?

User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10215 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 2):
As a matter of fact, PVG is doing a lot better than PEK. Flights are constantly oversold in recent months, especially the PVG-AKL sector. Remember when NZ launched PVG, we heard that the forward bookings were even better than SFO first started. And we also heard them say PVG was a successful route. We haven't heard they say that to PEK, have we?

PVG Economy sales are ok, sure, but cripple the profitability of the whole of the rest of the 777 network by requiring the fleet to be retained in its excessively economy-loaded configuration.

I disagree with Knid's suggestion that the airline should accept years of losses to China to in some way groom the routes for the future. The fate of Swissair, TWA, Pan Am, Aloha, Sabena et al should make very clear that every airline needs to balance future dreams with profitability now.

And even though the airline keeps saying PVG is profitable, they keep cutting frequency and weekly capacity so of course the aircraft end up oversold. Each time I look it up on Expert Flyer I find AKL-PVG-AKL has lots of unsold Business and Premium seats, even after all the frequency reductions.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10183 times:
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Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 2):
PVG is doing a lot better than PEK

Can't really compare PVG with PEK right now as PEK has just started. PVG is popular cause of its Chinese wholesale deals, which Rob Fyfe has even admitted


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10157 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 3):
PVG Economy sales are ok, sure, but cripple the profitability of the whole of the rest of the 777 network by requiring the fleet to be retained in its excessively economy-loaded configuration.

I wouldn't mind NZ flying a refitted B767 with AVOD if it is viable in terms of freight. Surely B767 won't have the range to go to PEK. I always feel that NZ jumped the gun for the Olympics to PEK. And flying beyond PEK to Europe is nonsense.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10153 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 5):
Surely B767 won't have the range to go to PEK.

No, it won't.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10150 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):
PVG is popular cause of its Chinese wholesale deals, which Rob Fyfe has even admitted

But what does that mean? Gold Coast tourism chiefs told our local rag a few months ago that mainland Chinese tourists will only travel overseas if the total cost for a week incl return airfare, accom, all meals and all tours is less than $2000.

That leaves at most $1000 return for the airfare including all taxes and surcharges, which means that profit margins per passenger are wafer-thin, which is why they said that neither Jetstar nor a Chinese carrier is looking at flying OOL-PVG.

I just don't see how this market plus freight can outweigh the total lack of high-yield traffic.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10140 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 7):
That leaves at most $1000 return for the airfare including all taxes and surcharges, which means that profit margins per passenger are wafer-thin, which is why they said that neither Jetstar nor a Chinese carrier is looking at flying OOL-PVG.

Didn't China Eastern fly PVG-BNE seasonally? New Zealand Tourism certainly wouldn't want to lose even those tourists and NZ being mostly govenment owned, you can't say there isn't pressure. Anyway, I find it only 20 seats per flight at the most traveling in a group. There should still be revenue from the rest of the cabin and cargo.


User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10104 times:



Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Pac Blue staff in limbo over their jobs

Just to clarify, PacificBlue cabin crew were never "in limbo" over their jobs. This was simply the media's take on the situation and not an accurate one.

Crew were kept informed from an early stage of changes, most of which seem to be very positive ones.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10103 times:



Quote:
Japanese visitor spend was up $22 million or 5.5 per cent despite a continued decline in tourists. The money spent by Chinese tourists, which have been steadily increasing, fell by $5 million or 1.8 per cent.

Bassett said the figures showed the Japanese market remained extraordinarily valuable to New Zealand while the result for China was symptomatic of the change in type of tourist from the region.

Over the last eight years it had moved from being education focussed visitors to more leisure travellers which meant their time in New Zealand had dropped off significantly.

From this morning's NZ Herald. Interesting re Japan that the numbers are down but the value is up, while the opposite is true for China.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10099 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 8):
New Zealand Tourism certainly wouldn't want to lose even those tourists and NZ being mostly govenment owned, you can't say there isn't pressure.

I don't think it works that way. NZ is operated as a separate entity.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10095 times:
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Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 5):
flying beyond PEK to Europe is nonsense.

I don't think it is, I think its a good idea as it gives NZ direct/better access to Europe and avoids pax flying via LHR. It also means that PEK can stay as a destination and even go daily, or would flying to Europe via PVG or HKG be better? Either way having a direct Europe flight via either PVG, PEK or HKG is good


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10066 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
or would flying to Europe via PVG or HKG be better?

Why would NZ go head to head with *A partner Air China via PEK? HKG or PVG seem to be the better answer.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10051 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
I don't think it is, I think its a good idea as it gives NZ direct/better access to Europe and avoids pax flying via LHR. It also means that PEK can stay as a destination and even go daily, or would flying to Europe via PVG or HKG be better?

I'm sorry but I think that AKL-PEK-Europe is a bad idea.

Firstly, if you look at Flyertalk, both PVG and PEK are considered horrible places to transit, especially for anyone wanting a stopover.

Secondly, the beauty of both LAX and HKG is that they have affluent, large markets for outward travel both to London and Auckland. In contrast, per capita income in Greater Beijing may catch up with Niue, Rarotonga and Tonga at some point in the next couple of decades. It's big but its people are dirt poor, or to be precise poor and living in about the dirtiest place imaginable. I was listening to BBC Radio in the car yesterday and the reporter commented that at the opening of the Olympic village no-one could see through the smog from one building to the next, in spite of 50% of the city's cars being off the street and almost half the factories being temporarily closed. The bottom line is that almost every tourist knows precisely what a holiday in Beijing would offer in terms of respiratory discomfort and they choose not to go.

Thirdly, why on earth bother to salvage Beijing as a destination? Current Air NZ sales prove that no-one wants to go there and that no-one there can afford to travel to NZ.

Beijing was a stupid route to open, and it needs to be closed as soon as possible.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10030 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
Beijing was a stupid route to open, and it needs to be closed as soon as possible.

For the first time, I agree with you. And NZ have to move Shanghai based crew to Beijing and pay for their accommodation and domestic flights.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10016 times:
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Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
I don't think it is, I think its a good idea as it gives NZ direct/better access to Europe and avoids pax flying via LHR. It also means that PEK can stay as a destination and even go daily, or would flying to Europe via PVG or HKG be better?

I'm sorry but I think that AKL-PEK-Europe is a bad idea.

NZ needs a European route, and IMHO it doesn't matter which Asian airport is goes via as pax will still use it no matter what compared to a 2 stop trip via either LAX/HKG and LHR

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 13):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
or would flying to Europe via PVG or HKG be better?

Why would NZ go head to head with *A partner Air China via PEK? HKG or PVG seem to be the better answer.

Well why not? Why would NZ go head to head with VS on the HKG-LHR sector even when VS is part of NZs FF programme, code-share on other routes anf offer the same type of seats? The reason why other star members fly the same routes with other members is cause they usually offer different times


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12172 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10008 times:
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Airport seeks $7.6m expenses, Canadians pay $1.34m


The unsuccessful Canadian bidders for a stake in Auckland International Airport (AIA) are in dispute with the airport company over $6 million of unpaid expenses incurred in the bid.


AIA today said it had received notice of a claim from the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPP) and its subsidiary NZ Airport NC.

The claim related to the airport's request for reimbursement of expenses it properly incurred in responding to CPP's partial takeover offer for Auckland Airport, AIA said.

The claim also related to the airport's refusal to release CPP from a confidentiality agreement which prohibited CPP from trading in Auckland Airport shares.

CPP asserted that certain of the expenses claimed by Auckland Airport were not properly incurred by it in responding to CPP's takeover offer, AIA said

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4633951a13.html

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 15):

Wouldn't it be easier and better to have the PVG crew operate PVG-AKL-PEK-AKL-PVG and save having to pax them to PEK and other costs?


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9987 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
NZ needs a European route, and IMHO it doesn't matter which Asian airport is goes via as pax will still use it no matter what compared to a 2 stop trip via either LAX/HKG and LHR



Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
Why would NZ go head to head with VS on the HKG-LHR sector even when VS is part of NZs FF programme, code-share on other routes anf offer the same type of seats? The reason why other star members fly the same routes with other members is cause they usually offer different times

If this is the case then NZ should operate the EU flight via BKK to reinstate a direct AKL-BKK service and have a stopover in a destination that people want to go to... and at an airport where pax can transfer onto TG for intra-asia services



What?
User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9980 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
Wouldn't it be easier and better to have the PVG crew operate PVG-AKL-PEK-AKL-PVG and save having to pax them to PEK and other costs?

You would think. But they are actually sent to Beijing and stay at the Crowne Plaza for the night and fly to AKL the next day. On the way back, they will spend a night in Beijing as well before going home in Shanghai. I think this will change though when PEK is down to 1 weekly after the Games.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9958 times:



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 9):
This was simply the media's take on the situation and not an accurate one.

Thats the media for you though, not the most accurate.

You still at PB? If so, hows things there? (media dont make it out to be rosey at all)


User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9892 times:



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20):
You still at PB? If so, hows things there? (media dont make it out to be rosey at all)

Like we've covered, the media often isn't the most accurate source for all things aviation!

Like many airlines at the moment, PacificBlue is undergoing big change. As unsettling as change can be, it is somewhat comforting to be part of one of very few airlines that are expanding and not retrenching right now.


User currently offlineVHSMM From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9873 times:

I just got the following email from Air New Zealand concerning the rollout of the udpated 763s and A320s

Dear VHSMM

We're always looking for ways to make your journey with us even better. So if you like to be entertained from the moment you hop on the plane till the moment you get off, we're about to have that covered.

Between August and December 2008, we'll be rolling out on-demand entertainment on the back of seats in our A320 and 767 planes flying to New Zealand and the Pacific Islands. So you can enjoy your favourite movies, music releases and TV shows just like you do at home. For all the details, check out http://www.changingthewayyoufly.com.au/ .



Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,A300,A319,20,21,A330,A340,A380,CRJ-200,BAe146,AVRO100,Saab340B,MD82,F100,Dash8
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9866 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 13):
Why would NZ go head to head with *A partner Air China via PEK? HKG or PVG seem to be the better answer.

Why not? If CA and NZ charge the same price, the airline of choice is obvious.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 14):
In contrast, per capita income in Greater Beijing may catch up with Niue, Rarotonga and Tonga at some point in the next couple of decades.

But the "flying public" does not include the labour workers. I don't think that is a valid income comparison in terms of customer wealth.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9848 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 23):
Why would NZ go head to head with *A partner Air China via PEK? HKG or PVG seem to be the better answer.

AirNZ already does go head to head with *A partners on several routes. LAX-LHR is one route. To Europe, Air China flies some routes from PEK, but they also fly some long haul routes to Germany from PVG. China Eastern flies from PVG to London. The CA services are codeshared with LH, so if Germany is the country that AirNZ chooses to serve, then AirNZ would be pooling their service with LH/AC.

Perhaps the solution is to restore SIN and fly to Europe through there. SIN is a good connection point for several *A carriers.


25 KiwiRob : I suggest AKL-PEK-OSL as there is a significant group of approx 100 Kiwi's living in OSL, these kiwis by NZ standards highly affluent with excessive
26 DavidByrne : . . . or hubbing through HKG to pick up East Coast Australia traffic bound for Europe - nothing has changed which diminishes this idea as a viable op
27 DavidByrne : Actually, part of NZ's problem is that the key potentially viable transit points between NZ and Europe (and I'm not trying to stimulate a debate on wh
28 Koruman : Absolutely, it's a no-brainer. Just don't forget that Air NZ's other favourite strategy at the moment is to code-share with the main potential compet
29 MotorHussy : Like AKL-HKG-LHR, AKL-EZE-LHR would be the only STARALLIANCE carrier
30 NZ107 : Indeed it does, but NZ does not have the cash to be able to do what QF does on their Kangaroo Routes, nor do they have the passengers on the NZ-HKG r
31 DavidByrne : To me, the logical move would be to operate CHC-(say) SYD-HKG-(say)MAN on the same schedule as the current AKL-HKG-LHR. No more difficult to create a
32 Koruman : I honestly don't think they need to to make this work. They would operate the following daily flights from late 2009, if they take up Boeing's ofer o
33 777ER : Expanding the fleet means that they need the money to purchase more aircraft and need to hire more crew and maybe run some routes at a lost before th
34 SQ6807 : If 777 is too much airplane for the route, surely the 787s would work out OK. I'd be keen to see a HKG-DUB flight, maybe even before Glasgow. I conti
35 777ER : I would rather NZ waited till once the B787s arrive before starting MAN or Glasgow, but if NZ can get some bloody good deals (like VERY heavy discoun
36 Xiaotung : SPACE+ SEATING Air New Zealand is excited to announce that our domestic fleet of 737-300 aircraft has now been refitted with the new Space+ zone at th
37 Alangirvan : DUB does have services if their passengers do not mind one change of plane along the route. They can use Etihad to AUH, and fly from there to SYD/MEL
38 777ER : So NZ is basically looking forward to less profits and angry pax who enjoy Y+ but can't purchase those seats on those affected routes by this change?
39 Alangirvan : AirNZ has just released their new Domestic Baggage Policy, though we have already discussed the main points on a.net. The major US carriers started ch
40 Xiaotung : I think these pax without status can choose to purchase H, B or Y class to be seated in SPACE+ of roughly the same price?
41 BlackLabel : A second bag, again up to 25kgs, will be charged at $15. · Gold Elite, Gold and Koru Club members will receive a second bag free. · A third bag wil
42 Xiaotung : Didn't the change now give you 50kg for free officially? This is interesting. I believe situation like this someone will be moved to Business, otherw
43 BlackLabel : Yes - but only across two bags. What happens when I travel with my bag + piece of equipment + toolbox? I really doubt NZ would upgrade anyone to busi
44 777ER : Yes they can be, but they don't get Y+ service like business class meals/drinks which NZs pax are now growing to love (like me) for Y fares. Thats wh
45 Xiaotung : I might be wrong but I thought business class services were only available to long haul premium economy flights.
46 BlackLabel : Can't speak for the Pacific routes, but you didn't get business class meals/drinks in Y+ on the Tasman run. That was another bugbear of mine when hav
47 TG992 : As others have already posted, the meal and beverage service for Premium Economy on the shorthaul services is the same as economy. PPE has always bee
48 777ER : Oh, thanks for the correction guys. Everytime I've been on a long haul aircraft Tasman service, Y+ loads has been good, but my last AKL Tasman flight
49 BlackLabel : Interesting that there have been sectors where it's had zero pax! I'm still not convinced that this is a good idea. A few issues: - Space+ on the 744
50 TG992 : The majority of our PPE passengers are from America, so getting food at all is always a pleasant surprise! This is a reaction I've always found stran
51 BlackLabel : Because I've bought a PE seat, and they've bought an Economy seat? If they had bought PE on the Tasman sector then fine. But if I've just spent $6K o
52 Cchan : How about on the 744 or 772 operating trans-tasman and Rarotonga?
53 BlackLabel : I was just thinking about this a little more. To use the AAmerican example, a similar thing you could expect is that top tier frequent travelers get
54 767ER : On the last few occassions I have flown the 777 SYD AKL PE had been completely empty and why would you bother. This new concept will at least fill up
55 DavidByrne : I'm truly amazed at how exercised people are about airline legroom and meals. If I want legroom I sit on my sofa at home, and if I want a nice meal Mr
56 BlackLabel : Presumably back in those days, people also didn't care whether their cellphone matched their outfit, or that their portable music device (*ahem*) was
57 777ER : Its already been said that Business class meals in Y+ isn't served on Tasman and Pacific Islands on the long haul aircraft When I fly long haul I exp
58 767ER : When I fly long haul SYD AKL LAX in BP I often ask for the Y meal SYD AKL - especially those yummy Meat Pies - rather than having two full dinners wit
59 Knid : I doubt it; I think that this is seen more as a reward for patronage, rather than a right. Is there any Space+ seating on the A320's or 767's?
60 777ER : Yes, these will be installed up the front of economy during their IFE upgrade
61 Post contains links 777ER : Kiwi launches $130,000 jetpack: Up, up and away Christchurch inventor Glenn Martin will unveil tomorrow his personal "jetpack" at the annual Oshkosh a
62 NZ107 : Say they keep most of their current routes and then decide on starting up a mini hub in HKG. They would need a lot more aircraft than they have at pr
63 777ER : I found their fries there last year to be totally disgusting, the thick shake and hamburger also wasn't something to dive into
64 DavidByrne : Just say NZ did take up the offer of the eight 77Ls and did a one-for-one with their 744s. There's a little bit of capacity in the fleet already, bec
65 KiwiRob : I concur, I fly in Russia frequently, the food looks like jelly meat and on a Tu-134 or Tu-154 legroom is non-existent especially if you have hand lu
66 Alangirvan : News in todays Otago Daily Times that birds from the Taiaroa Head Albatross colony are being tracked off the coast of Chile - so flights from NZ to Ch
67 Mariner : I think a long-term China strategy has merit, although not, perhaps, in the half-arsed way it is done now. But then the Big Picture at Air NZ continu
68 Gasman : I've never met you so I can't actually comment; howver at 194cm I am definitely a freak, and any extra legroom makes a huge difference. This is why I
69 Koruman : The replacement of Premium Economy with Economy Space Plus on Pacific and and Tasman routes is a real kick in the teeth for high-yielding Premium Econ
70 Gasman : I agree. Is this move also going to affect the (few) trans-tasman 744 flights also??
71 Knid : While I do think that the loss of Y+ around the pacific may look bad to those up in the UK looking to fly Y+ around the pacific, I guess they will ju
72 BlackLabel : The quickest solution to that is to offer frequent flier miles (to NZ FF and, ideally, other Star FF) on the Domestic/Tasman/Pacific/Global Saver far
73 Koruman : Look, the airline tries to get people to book via the website yet it's impossible from the website to even tell whether you have a Y, B, H or M fare
74 Cchan : It is. The cheapest (full) Flexi fare is class H, the next tier is M, then B, then Y. The Flexi Saver fares are T, W, V, and Q, from cheapest to most
75 777ER : With this new space+ class on B777s and B744s, if one of those aircraft is operating AKL-Pacific Islands-LAX, is the Pacific Island-LAX sector also op
76 ANstar : why would a passenger from the UK NOT get Space + on their trans tasman sector? I would have though Premium Economy would be considered a higher fare
77 BlackLabel : Not necessarily. If UEO are no longer present on the Tasman sectors for booking, the PE fare would book into Economy fare buckets on the Tasman secto
78 Cchan : The only things I am sure about these new arrangements are that: 1) they bring lots of confusion, and 2) we will see some pissed off customers at the
79 Zkpilot : Then the seats will be assigned to either the highest FF status or expensive Y tickets one would imagine... ie NZB, NZE, NZG would be highest priorit
80 NZ107 : Will an airline like NZ be prepared to risk sending so many planes to one area all at once to start off with? And Europe vs the likes of South Africa
81 KiwiRob : What is NZB referring to?
82 ZKSUJ : NZ Black? I read a post somewhere about it...
83 NZ107 : Yeah announced a few months back as the the card for the elitists in the Gold-Elite bracket who get prefferential service over the rest or something.
84 Zkpilot : It is NZs equivilent of QFs Chairmans Lounge... is for VIP and CIP customers... Captains of Industry etc ie CEOs of the likes of say Fletcher Buildin
85 Xiaotung : I thought we were expecting a new level. I did read somewhere that NZ mentioned something about further segmentation of members.
86 PA515 : J32 ZK-ECP KAT-AKL 14 pax. Engine warning light. PA515
87 777ER : IMHO, NZ should 'test the waters' for starters with one daily flight to one ot Europes most popular destinations. From there NZ can code-share on oth
88 ZKSUJ : On another site, theres speculation of Tiger entering the NZ market. Anyone know anything? I personally don't know how far it will go, but we'll see
89 SQ6807 : While I certainly don't oppose extending existing services to Asia, you have to admit that the Europe market is reasonably saturated. As a result, I
90 Koruman : I'm pretty sure that this is going to be the most common bad scenario...... Mr and Mrs X are London residents, and Mr B has status with British Airwa
91 Post contains links DavidByrne : http://www.etravelblackboard.com/showarticle.asp?id=80475&nav=115 The subject matter is the redevelopment of Coolangatta Airport. What do they mean,
92 BlackLabel : Precisely. Unless NZ makes it clear how they are organising seating priority for that cabin, and it treats PE customers to priority, this is a bad id
93 Koruman : Mrs X has arranged to meet Mr B at Rarotonga, so Mr X is in a bad mood already.....
94 Gasman : The whole concept sounds utterly nuts to me. Air NZ need to do an urgent re-think on this before it gains any more momentum. I've been a pretty loyal
95 SQ6807 : Surely it would be possible for NZ to put Mr and Mrs X, and anyone else from the alphabet, who has paid for premium economy in the space zone? That se
96 DavidByrne : C'mon, surely they have to retire the 744 or bleed to death!
97 RichardJF : When are they going to start services to Europe. Mirrored version of existing network should be highly attractive. Should have started LAS instead of
98 Kiwiandrew : Hi Richard - I am sure that you knew what you meant when you wrote this - but I have no idea - please explain
99 BlackLabel : Sure - totally possible. Except... that's not what the fare rules currently state. As I said, NZ need to make this pretty clear cause as it stands, i
100 JoFMO : I fully agree. When you pay Premium Eco you have to sit Premium Eco. It is ok to fill Premium Eco seats with loyal customers on the Tasman when you c
101 Gasman : I don't know - do they?? Certainly on the routes I fly on a 744 (mainly AKL-LAX and occasionally LAX-LHR) occupancy always seems to be well over 90%
102 777ER : Interesting, any link for this? Maybe hes meaning their old FRA services?
103 Cchan : The 744 fleet has an average age of 14 years, by the time the 77W are delivered, these 744s will be at their average retirement age for many larger a
104 Koruman : Air NZ is playing a pretty risky game with its Premium cabins and pricing. Until 2005 they had 64 Business and 12 First Class seats on each flight to
105 Gasman : Well said Koruman. It also has to be said that Business Premiere is in a league above the "Skybed" contraption offered by the competition... it is jus
106 Onedude : Hi everyone, I'm still really confused about the PPE issue. I am a non status traveller that uses Air NZ from MEL to LAX 3-4 times a year in PPE. Are
107 777ER : Yes, unless you purchase the highest Y fare, or are a Koru member. Y+ won't be sold on Tasman runs. I certainly hope that NZ don't take advantage of
108 TG992 : Common sense should tell some posters here that those who have PURCHASED PREMIUM ECONOMY FARES WILL BE SEATED IN PREMIUM ECONOMY.
109 BlackLabel : Not to sound like a prick - but if the cabin (PE) doesn't exist on that sector, then I don't believe there is a guarantee. NZ has not made it clear w
110 Koruman : That's true, until the end of this year. But what about Aussies wanting to fly to the USA beyond 2008? The new Premium Economy fare rules state that
111 Koruman : Changes in product offering always attract a mixed reception, but it's interesting that on this board the high-value high-yield repeat customers are
112 NZ107 : Yeah I'm split to whether I would want them going to a city like Munich vs Manchester or even Glasgow.Will the power of Air NZ be able to take passen
113 JoFMO : I wound not be be too sure about that. Prices from BNE/MEL/SYD-LAX-LHR in Premium Eco were very much the same so far, although SYD was a A320 / 767 f
114 Post contains links QF175 : Stuff.co.nz Summary: A) EVA Air to suspend AKL services come SEP B) The route has been a loss maker for some time C) The airline intends to maintain a
115 Cchan : Any idea which these two are? My guess is TG, and either MH or KE.
116 777ER : Yes, but Y+ is only being sold till the changes take effect. I'm not a repeat customer on NZ for any international route. I only fly long haul in Y+
117 767ER : I must say I have encountered problems with PE fares aross the Tasman - with my onward connection to LAX. I purchased a PE flight some months ago for
118 Cchan : IMHO, the better model would be to continue to sell PE and any unsold PE seats go to lucky higher status frequent flyers or Koru members, like someon
119 767ER : Actually that is even better idea..i must have missed that post
120 TG992 : TG advised industry staff over a month ago that the direct BKK-AKL will be terminated and replaced with flights routing via Australia. As far as I kn
121 Xiaotung : This is not bad news. They used to fly via both SYD and BNE. Double daily into/out of AKL? I hope NZ won't ban Airpoints earning from these flights.
122 TG992 : The last time CA flew here it was a complete and utter disaster (you may not be old enough to remember). I have vivid memories of their 747 rotating a
123 Mariner : I flew to LAX with them (via HNL) but I remember it as a DC-10, with a "Pub" on board. Am I wrong? mariner
124 NZ107 : I think it was more like 10x weekly.. The MD-11 operated the BKK-BNE-AKL.
125 DavidByrne : I think that you're confused with CO. CA=Air China, formerly CAAC
126 Mariner : Ahhh - dawn breaks. Yes, thank you. mariner
127 Aerohottie : The solution to the Premium issue seems rather simple to me... Have an A320 config with 2 rows of 4 abreast BP, 2 rows of 5 abreast PE tasman and paci
128 SunriseValley : [quote=DavidByrne,reply=6]No, it won't. Are you sure ? I believe NZ are going to install winglets on their 767 fleet. According to the APB web site t
129 JoFMO : Thats what common sense would actually dictate...
130 REALDEAL : Where will Tiger fly to in NZ now it looks like they'll get trans-Tasman rights. MEL/ ???
131 DavidByrne : If a wingletted 763ER could make it AKL-PEK with a full pax load then this would definitely be an interesting option pending delivery of the 789s. Wo
132 Aerohottie : Very much agree...
133 KiwiRob : That's exactly how I thought it would work.
134 Onedude : Hi everyone, Thanks for all your comments and clarifications on the PPE issue. I am bewildered as everyone else about why you would want to annoy Aust
135 ZK-NBT : Hey how are you? Long time no hear. I can't say I'm to surprised but its stink as always to lose a carrier. I heard ages ago that CI were considering
136 ANstar : I cant imagine it beieng a huge issue for SYD as how many flights actually had PE anyway.... we mostly see A320/767 services.
137 Cchan : I love those days. Their MD11 flights were really great, that was about the only reason I flew with TG that time. Great news for CX. Hope it keeps th
138 777ER : I believe that type of plan was considered for the A320 and B763 to make them match the products on the B747/B777s, but that was ditched cause the fl
139 SunriseValley : So what would be wrong with reinforcing the floor ? AC have done it and still manage to do 12+ hour sectors such as YYZ-TLV and YVR-PVG with the type
140 Koruman : Why? If you're going to rip off Premium Economy passengers by charging them Premium fares and delivering Economy class then hey, why not short-change
141 Post contains links NZA320 : According to APBs website the winglets on the 763ER will reduce fuel consumption by 6.5% and will add 360nm to the range and 12000Ib to the payload.
142 777ER : The new cabins would have restricted the A320s badly. Isn't AC's B763s now weight restricted though? NZ decided if I remember correctly that it would
143 SunriseValley : Maybe, but still good enough for 12 hour sectors or about 5500nm ESAD. At the time that decision was made NZ had stars in their eyes about the yields
144 JoFMO : I think NZ might have to completely abandon the Premium Eco market from Australia. Lets face it, they cant compete with the new Premium ECO on QF and
145 Knid : I heard pretty much the same as 777ER, but also that the reinforcing would be time consuming, and also very expensive. When you add the length of ser
146 Aerohottie : What heavy seats??? I think my "proposed solution" has been greatly misinterpreted. Who said anything about installing the business premier seats on
147 777ER : No It hasn't been misenterpreted. I was going by what you said, and I've pasted what you said in the reply below. Having some Business Premier seats
148 Aerohottie : Again.... I think my proposed solution has been greatly misinterpreted... I dont think the BP seats would fit in an A320 at 4 abreast, do you? Hoping
149 Koruman : Actually, no, Air NZ has significant long-haul market share from BNE and MEL to the USA simply due to a better product in every class and no need to
150 777ER : Again, you said "The solution to the Premium issue seems rather simple to me... Have an A320 config with 2 rows of 4 abreast BP" Don't you agree that
151 Aerohottie : Yes I do agree... and thats why the 4 abreast should remain as J class, but introduce a 5 abreast layout as Y+... The A320 could feasibly have a cabi
152 777ER : Why should NZ introduce another cabin that has the same seat as J but with a cheaper fare? All the J pax would move to Y+ with the same products but
153 REALDEAL : there are much cheaper 1 stop fares OZ/LAX than with NZ. QF looks like they're dumping seats in conjunction with FJ (FJ in 1 direction) presumably to
154 CRJ900X : Any information regarding the replacement of the ATR72-500's at Mount Cook Airlines? Will the decision be made soon regarding a ATR/Bombardier/Embraer
155 Post contains links and images Maxisno1 : Have you guys seen what they are posting on the back of the seats on board the A320's now? This was from a trip I did to OOL last month - I only wish
156 Aerohottie : Purely to maintain class continuity with the longhaul fleet, and solve this aweful longhaul-shorthaul connection downgrade issue.
157 Nzrich : All NZ need to do is guarantee PE passengers ex Australia seating in the section with the extra leg room then that should be fine as its the same tha
158 777ER : Before VA arrived on the scene, NZ usually was much cheaper. Thats why my employer booked people via AKL on NZ to get to LAX/SFO during the USA summe
159 Maxisno1 : Young? Judging by your profile I am around the same age as you. You should be pleased to know that I didn't watch it, and nor did most of the passeng
160 TG992 : Something that I genuinely don't understand or know: Other airlines have an Economy Plus type seat, such as BA. So is there the kicking and screaming
161 777ER : Without giving away my age really, lets just say I'm fast approaching the older part of the age bracket in my profile. The same movies are played acc
162 Aerohottie : No. It would not. Sorry, but I completely disagree
163 Maxisno1 : Yep! I can certainly see why they would do that. Just more reasons to make me wish they could do it sooner heh. Thanks for the replies , Max
164 777ER : If they don't then NZ will still get more complaints about people feeling like they have been ripped off once they have finished their trip after fir
165 ANstar : I dont think the A320's J cabin is crap (except for the worn seats!) It is quite good for a short haul business class product - which is what it is. M
166 777ER : Nothing is wrong with them for short haul pax, but consider the long haul pax and how ripped off they could feel. NZ likes to think of itself as the
167 REALDEAL : yes but QF owns something like 46% of FJ (only bigger shareholder is Fiji Govt at something like 51%), so QF virtually has a Jetstar flying to LA via
168 777ER : The searches I've done around January/February showed NZ was the cheapest from SYD-LAX
169 REALDEAL : Agents have cheaper fares than any online (public search). Cheapest NZ fare I could find for peak season 10 Dec-16JAN departure from SYD to LAX retur
170 ANstar : No different from any other long haul passenger that transfers to a short haul flight. Surely they can't be so naive to think that they would have th
171 777ER : How many pax actually book via a travel agent compared to via the airlines booking web-site these days? As you have said before, nobody likes to conn
172 777ER : Well there are pax out there who think that. Even those pax are what all the worlds airlines need to help fill their seats. Well you can't expect tha
173 REALDEAL : domestically ? huge % book online, altho corporates are lazy & get an agent to do it. internationally ? much smller % book online because of the exam
174 777ER : You really think that will stop NZ from offering cheap deals when they need to? On domestic here, the 3 airlines have roughly the same fare, but when
175 REALDEAL : Yep-there costs are too high like QF, but QF has low cost options, ie. JQ who don't yet fly to LAX but do fly to HNL & FJ which no one seems to have
176 NZ107 : Less so for Sydney though.. for flying to SYD at the end of Jan costs around $60 more one way than it does on QF or EK and they've advertised those p
177 777ER : JQ don't fly any of QFs best routes. JQ only flys to QF worst destinations in terms of profits. I seriously doubt QF would give JQ one of their prime
178 REALDEAL : FJ fly LAX via NAN & with their fares you can fly QF nonstop. As economy gets worse more & more people will either not travel at all or will look har
179 Koruman : The airline may now have reached the point where it has priced premium travel so high that it's now losing customers. As people may have noticed, I've
180 REALDEAL : presuming your flying from Sydney or Brisbane, you could fly QF/FJ combination for around $2500 inc taxes of $500 & kids for about $550 less. From LA
181 Maxisno1 : That is fantastic news! Anyone know if we still get business class food or is it just the seat only? I wonder if the airpoints that are required to u
182 767ER : Nope just the seat - same Y food across the Tassie and to the Islands.
183 777ER : Even if JQ are, I can guarantee you that it won't be any of QFs prime routes
184 REALDEAL : yes but you miss the point. If QF keeps shrinking, it might come down to who flies the route JQ or QF ? Especially with the 787 fragmenting the marke
185 777ER : There really was no point! QF will NEVER and I repeat NEVER give up any LAX flights to JQ as they are their best routes. Tell me something, why the h
186 REALDEAL : you're assuming QF will survive & still be around. JQ will be but QF - not so sure.
187 ANstar : Based on what?
188 Koruman : Thanks, but no thanks. (Probably......) My employer is offering me a premium ticket, so the idea of sitting in an Air Pacific 737 is even worse than
189 JoFMO : I don't think there is any reason why we should not see Jetstar flying some of the marginal North American routes in the future. Goldcoast-LAX, Cairn
190 Koruman : I suspect that Jetstar will do things a little differently. QF will continue to fly SYD-LAX and SYD-SFO and MEL-LAX and BNE-LAX, but I expect Jetstar
191 777ER : Maybe produce some evidence to prove that QF won't be around? What have you got against QF and JQ to say crazy things like that? QF are one of the wo
192 REALDEAL : QF will continue to shrink. Question is whether they will keep shrinking to nothing or not. A lot has to do with oil price & LCC's might be all that'
193 Legacyins : There is no way Oakland FIS area can support 300 + passengers. When MX arrives with 150 Passengers, it is a one hour wait authomaticall. Plus, with a
194 Aerohottie : To be blunt, you are not qualified to make such a statement. What you are saying is actually quite baseless and fundamentally incorrect. I suggest if
195 REALDEAL : rubbish !!! Joyce acknowledges QF will continue to shrink & JQ will take over some QF routes.
196 777ER : Just because Joyce has said that QF will continue to shrink (which all airlines are doing), doesn't mean that QF will vanish from the face of the ear
197 JoFMO : That seems to be common sense to me. This process has started some years ago and keeps going. So I don't think it is a bold statement to predict a cu
198 Mr AirNZ : While I agree with you and doubt that QF will be going anywhere anytime soon, never is a very strong word. If you said to people in the 70's that the
199 NZ107 : Chances of this are VERY VERY slim knowing that QF has such a good brand base built up over many years and the brand itself would undoubtedly be wort
200 777ER : And have to suffer the reputation that JQ has? JQ is QFs LCC with budget service like buy on board service and QF is full service. QFs prime routes a
201 Post contains links 777ER : Realdeal might be interested in reading this article which is also posted in the Aussie Aviation Thread QF will not become a low cost airline says Ala
202 REALDEAL : oh really the same was said about AN & NZ. If NZ hadn't been bailed out by govt it would be no more either. " target=_blank>http://money.ninemsn.com.
203 Aerohottie : What are you talking about? thats not even a relevant example. It just shows that you have no idea what your talking about, and no credibility to mak
204 777ER : Mate, I really love your attempt at a non relevant example By the amount of times you've said "QF will keep shrinking" and not produce ANY evidence t
205 Post contains links NZ107 : An interesting read below: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-airways-nz-and-faa-ready-for.html NZ, QF and UA will proceed with "green flights" w
206 Gasman : Completey agree. Much as I like the true lie-flat bed in J class, the overall product is not a first class one, and should not be priced as such.
207 Koruman : A bit of (relatively) good news - the airline has confirmed that all long-haul Premium Economy pax will be seated in Space Plus, and that if necessary
208 REALDEAL : you say temporary we say permanent. Who knows who'll be right, but if fuel doesn't drastically drop in price, when hedges run out, QF has to shrink d
209 DJ738 : PacificBlue's latest 737-800 arrives in Christchurch from Melbourne on Saturday. It is brand new from Boeing and will become ZK-PBK.
210 Gasman : Somewhat off the prevailing topic, but does anyone know if Qantas plan to introduce any aircraft built this century to the NZ domestic fleet?
211 REALDEAL : & guess what, they're not going to get any cheaper !!! What's wrong with dirty, tired 20+year old 734's & 733's ? THink there are more in Australian
212 Alangirvan : Exactly - what is wrong with old planes? Operating older planes is a skill that several airlines in the UK have. Older planes work well for them, mai
213 Gasman : All good points Alangirvan. However old planes are noticed as such by the travelling public, they use more fuel, cost more to maintain and the aviati
214 ZKSUJ : I disagree there with a couple of your points. the public do not know the difference between older and newer aircraft as a whole. Most dont really ca
215 777ER : I thought PacBlue got a new aircraft so it could start the DUD run. Would this aircraft be used for the AKL-MEL run or just as a spare?
216 Post contains links 777ER : Thread #38 has taken off http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4098236/
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