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QF Drama Again-inflight door issue  
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5854 posts, RR: 40
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 16181 times:

just breaking down here, a QF flight has suffered another scare whilst inflight? its all happening at QF

Quote:
BREAKING NEWS: A QANTAS flight bound for Melbourne made an emergency landing tonight after a door reportedly opened mid-flight.

The flight, believed to be QF692, took off from Adelaide at 6.08pm but turned around and landed safely 37 minutes later.

There was confusion over what caused the emergency.

Passengers said a door opened mid-flight, causing "chaos" in the cabin.

But airline sources said the doors covering the wheel bay did not close properly after take-off.

The aircraft turned around near Murray Bridge, about 60km from Adelaide, and landed safely at 6.45pm.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24093267-661,00.html

interesting that its a 767 and not the normal 738 which does the run.

[Edited 2008-07-28 05:56:32]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16013 times:

Yikes! I'm in Adelaide right now (with a good view of the flight path) but I haven't heard anything. I flew QF SFO-SYD-MEL-ADL the Friday before last and had no problems or delays so I guess I was lucky.

[Edited 2008-07-28 06:17:55]

User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15899 times:

Whilst we should wait for initial confirmation what I will say is, from experience, some passengers love to make a simple problem seem like a drama.


Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15889 times:

This is just an example of the media blowing up irrelevent things after a flow of publicity.

"The door opened" gimme a break.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15808 times:



Quoting QANTAS077 (Thread starter):
Passengers said a door opened mid-flight, causing "chaos" in the cabin.

But airline sources said the doors covering the wheel bay did not close properly after take-off.

It was one of the gear doors, not any of the cabin doors. (Confirmed)


User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15596 times:

I didn't think that cabin doors could open mid-flight, isn't the pressure difference too great?
And I do realize that it was a gear door that opened, not a cabin door  Smile

[Edited 2008-07-28 07:07:21]


If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15559 times:

Can the cabin doors open midflight? Isn't there a locking mechanism due to pressurisation?

User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15437 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 6):
Can the cabin doors open midflight? Isn't there a locking mechanism due to pressurisation?

It's not due to a mechanism, but rather that the amount of force required to push the door out would have to be greater than the force on the outside of the aircraft.


User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15374 times:



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 7):
the amount of force required to push the door out would have to be greater than the force on the outside of the aircraft.

Could someone explain this, please? I have wondered for a while. If the air is less dense outside and pressurized inside the cabin, I would think it would tend to push the door open as doors open towards the outside. So why is it the opposite, please?

Thanks!

PS: I'd fly Qantas any day...


User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3207 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15307 times:

Would a gear door have much effect on the passenger cabin? I didn't think it did...

I suppose it's one of those things, when you get a big story like the QF 744 the other day, ANY problem with a Qantas aircraft will get reported and hyped up.

It will be the turn of another airline soon...



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12464 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15244 times:
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Quoting Swiftski (Reply 7):
It's not due to a mechanism, but rather that the amount of force required to push the door out would have to be greater than the force on the outside of the aircraft.

It's really the other way round - most doors are of the "plug" type, they need to be pulled inwards before they swing outside the fuselage. Since the internal pressure at altitude is considerably higher than outside, even Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime would not be able to open the door as the internal pressure is keeping the door "plugged". As a rough idea, a 6ft by 3ft door, with a 1lb/in2 pressure difference, would require a force in excess of 2,500lbs to open the door.

Only at low level, once inside and outside pressures have equalised would it actually be physically possible to open the door.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15227 times:

Thanks for this explanation! Now it makes sense for me.

User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13324 times:

If a gear door popped open, the only effect it would have on the cabin is a lot more noise and it's annoying. I think, but don't hold me to this, you'd have to fly at a lower altitude, and it would problably produce more drag. It's happened on a few of our flights, but usually under 250 FL and on a short hop, so not too big of a deal. I've also had faulty door seals on the J41 give out, and you could actually see a little space between the floor and the bottom of the door, but even pressurized it doesn't make a whole lot of difference as the outside air just rushes passed, but the whistiling sound is enough to give you a headache, even worse if your'e stuck with that plane all day and have to pull 6 legs.


EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11698 times:



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 2):
some passengers love to make a simple problem seem like a drama.

Some ?


User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11651 times:



Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 5):
I didn't think that cabin doors could open mid-flight, isn't the pressure difference too great?

Uh... right after takeoff isn't that great, I guess. But as well, you may imagine that if someone just tries to stand up and open a cabin door until it can be opened really quickly right after takeoff, well, unless it's not for mythbusters..... he'll be busted quickly, no myth.


User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11500 times:



Quoting Max777geek (Reply 14):
Uh... right after takeoff isn't that great, I guess. But as well, you may imagine that if someone just tries to stand up and open a cabin door until it can be opened really quickly right after takeoff, well, unless it's not for mythbusters..... he'll be busted quickly, no myth.

lol. okay, i didn't realize the plane wasn't in cruise



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11373 times:



Quoting Max777geek (Reply 13):
Some ?

Only takes one idiot to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater to make mass hysteria. Of course, there are people who have to make a "mountain out of a mole hill" and say things were worse than they really are.

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 14):
Uh... right after takeoff isn't that great, I guess. But as well, you may imagine that if someone just tries to stand up and open a cabin door until it can be opened really quickly right after takeoff, well, unless it's not for mythbusters..... he'll be busted quickly, no myth.

Pressurization is pre set (never had to do it, but been on flights where it is manually done, and it looks like a pain in the ass and constant manipulation, usually on the FO). Wonder why sometimes your ears already pop as soon as the door is closed. Even straight after take off, chances are that door won't open. I've heard of cases where an F/A has opened the main cabin door at a gate and the a/c is still pressurized and being badly hurt opening the door too quickly, even after it's been disarmed. Then again, I think that may be a myth too. I still have to wonder though, Lockheed and MD liked their doors to be slid upwards. The Lockheeds I've worked with (141's and 130's) had "troop doors" that opened upward to drop troops off the rear of the plane. MD did it DC & KC10's) , I guess to save space at the gate? I think I've seen some 763's with the same type of door. Why MD did that on a commercial a/c is anyones guess....



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineAcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11029 times:

About the pressurization......I remember flying in a couple of old King Air 200's, when we landed and the props were put in beta, the pressure would "dump." It seemed like a long way down from altitude to beta - my head couldn't wait until then.

User currently offlineDL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10344 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 16):
Lockheed and MD liked their doors to be slid upwards. The Lockheeds I've worked with (141's and 130's) had "troop doors" that opened upward to drop troops off the rear of the plane. MD did it DC & KC10's) , I guess to save space at the gate? I think I've seen some 763's with the same type of door. Why MD did that on a commercial a/c is anyones guess....

I think it was actually a pretty good idea. When the door is open, it's up in the overhead out of the way. Saves it from getting damaged by jetways and service trucks. Also, in an emergency evac, when the slide deploys it removes a lot of weight from the door. The counterbalance mechanism is going to rocket that door up and out of the way. Don't have to worru about a gust lock to hold the door open.


User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10291 times:



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 17):
About the pressurization......I remember flying in a couple of old King Air 200's, when we landed and the props were put in beta, the pressure would "dump." It seemed like a long way down from altitude to beta - my head couldn't wait until then.

What was the deal with that? If the "idiot" light was beta red, I'm thinking you wouldn't be here to tell that tale. I'm not too sure about the King Air systems, but were you guys trying to slow down and lose altitude really fast? Then again, I've only been in a King Air once and that was going across Texas. Other turbos since then was the 130 and then as an F/A for a J41. I just remember flying empty one night and just over the threshold the right beta light turned red and I pointed it out. The engines did what they were told, just about sensor. But it didn't help that we were trying to fly back out empty to somewhere else to go to this strip joint. I'm still pissed, we had no pax from RIC to BWI or to our final at GSO and almost had sealed the deal talking us into flying straight RIC-GSO, putting us in the strip club behind the hotel that much quicker. But no, we had to deliver a "shotgun" envelope to the US Airways manager at BWI and then proceed to GSO. Make a long story short, we got stuck in BWI, went to the normal hotel we used to stay at, and our credit wasn't good at first. I finally got us some rooms after flirting with.....

Long story, good times. Not so good that night. Two lessons, even in the middle of the night, don't have three of us smoking in the lav of a 41 (while waiting for MX) even with the emergeny exit removed, can't get rid of the smell. Even though the commuter side of the BWI terminal, don't ask for bogus pax to come to gate whatever. Somewhere there is a Pat Magroin or Phil Mc Krevis and they'll show up to the gate.

WX delays, or MX delays, never good for a flight crew either. On a serious note, we don't get paid for sitting on the ground. The best part of it is as an F/A for a regional airline, I had the same uniform as a gate agent (even more so when I did UA flights out of IAD). Nothing like running an empty gate with no flight. At least most people got that and there was more room to spread out. A lot of times our plane to take over wouldn't be in, so I'd gather up as much pax from the gate we are supposed to be and lead them to an empty gate so they could chill and spread out. They aren't going anywhere without the flight crew, right?

Like I say, good times.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2829 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10247 times:

Does anyone have the registration of the 767 involved yet?

[Edited 2008-07-28 14:07:55]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10110 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 16):
I think I've seen some 763's with the same type of door.



I believe all 767s have inward/upward opening doors like the DC-10, MD-11 and L1011. That type of door was traditional on several other Lockheed types including the L188 Electra and Constellation.


User currently offlineAcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9966 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 19):
What was the deal with that? If the "idiot" light was beta red, I'm thinking you wouldn't be here to tell that tale. I'm not too sure about the King Air systems, but were you guys trying to slow down and lose altitude really fast?

I dont know, I was just along for the rides. One, I had done some work up in CMH, and took a free ride back to LUK. The other situations were similar, called out to do some A.O.G. work, had crews there for training......they decided that training session included taking me to where I needed to go and bringing me back. Maybe they were practicing rapid descents. This wasn't done in the air, only on the ground.

I may have used the wrong term beta - when the wheels touched down, just before reverse - I thought that was beta, then while in beta, isn't that when reverse is applied?


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9333 times:

I know what happened. A drunk passenger was hiding in the wheel well, and tried to open the gear doors during the flight.  Big grin

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2966 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9283 times:

The best bit about this story was that all of the news channels this morning were showing a 737-400 at Adelaide Airport not the 767 involved!

But a wheel door not closing propoerly isn't a big deal. Apparently it creates quite a bit of turbulence and makes noise far in excess of the danger it poses to the aircraft. But, again, the plane got back safely, no-one was injured and we look forward to some highly accurate media hype about how safe QF is.


25 DocPepz : It seems that News Ltd is on a campaign to destroy QF. I am quite surprised that the Australian media can just about destroy an airline's reputation w
26 Post contains links TN486 : the ac in fact was a 738. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...tory/0,25197,24094422-2702,00.html IMHO there appears to be a lot of private agendas
27 9VSIO : Try opening it into a 140mph slipstream :P (unless upward style doors)
28 FlyinTLow : ACtually, on the 747, I've heard that at low speeds, the very last door on the left side can be opened just a little bit inflight as part of the smok
29 Xtoler : Okay, now I'm a bit confused, which isn't too hard. The good thing about being an F/A, I can swap between two different aircraft and I still get paid
30 FlyinTLow : As I said before, depending on the logic of the airplane, pressurisation begins before liftoff, most of the time starting with the takeoff roll. This
31 Point8six : A gear door open, even slightly, will cause noise and vibration in the cabin, but more importantly for the cockpit crew, will result in higher fuel co
32 FlyinTLow : Thanks for the backing there, you got my respect! And just to confirm the rumor I have heard, you must know it. Does the smoke removal procedure on th
33 Bill142 : Aircraft was VH-OGK No, It was a 763
34 Evers : was at meeting where QF Business manager spoke, he actually made mention of how, for companies like news limited, bashing the national carrier is spo
35 TruemanQLD : Anyone know if Anna Coren was on the flight?
36 HAWK21M : Wish the media interviewed experts in the field before printing their news regds MEL
37 Singapore_Air : I would say they would have some way to go but there is no doubt they have made headway. :D hehe
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