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772 BCF Coming?  
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10819 posts, RR: 9
Posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Now that the 772F had its first flight, I ask myself if in a not too far distant future Boeing might lauch a conversion program for pax-772s. The early built 777s are in a perfect age for that, and the first airlines begin to retire them (China Southern, Emirates). Not every operator might need the range of the 777F and certainly the majority of freight operators can´t afford its very high aquisition price. A 777BCF would make a great DC10F/MD11F replacement. Especially the DC10 won´t have a bright future, guzzlers from the 70s they are.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

A 777-BCF based on early 777s won't be in the same league as the 777F, which has 777-200LR structures on top of 777-300ER undercarriage and fuel tanks, and is built as a freighter from the start. However it won't cost as much as 777F, and it seems 2 engines are cheaper to run than 3 on MD-10. I could see something like 777-BCF being used in the role of domestic package hauler much like FX now uses some of its MD-10s.


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User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

I was told that any passenger 777 would need to have the main-deck floor completely redesigned and replaced because normal freight loading on the main-deck would significantly exceed the design limits of the floor. So it would seem that freighter conversion for pax 777s might be a costly affair.

If the aircraft is to be used only as an express package carrier (where the freight is of significantly lower density), I do not know whether the existing the main deck floor offers adequate strength for such an application.



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User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Probably 777BCF will come , but maybe it is too early.
All will depend if the 777-2 retired will find a buyers , and all will depend of the resale price of the pax version.
I can see the BCF coming , when many 787s will be in service , and quite many retired 772 pax will be on the market.Thus resale prices will decline , and time for 777BCF will come.

Not sure a 777BCF will be really a DC10F replacement.See what Arrow Air will do.They will replace their DC10Fs with A330Fs.

Time for A330BCFs will come as well......


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10819 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2461 times:



Quoting FCKC (Reply 3):
Time for A330BCFs will come as well......

Yeah, all those A300Fs and 767Fs need to be replaced some day!


User currently offlineLotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2454 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 2):
I do not know whether the existing the main deck floor offers adequate strength for such an application.

All modern wide body freighter conversion programs replace the floor grid, including the A300/A310's done for FX. Even the upcoming A320 conversion will replace the floor.

Only the 737 and 757 converters keep the old beams but they do reinforce them as required.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2295 times:



Quoting NA (Thread starter):
Now that the 772F had its first flight, I ask myself if in a not too far distant future Boeing might lauch a conversion program for pax-772s. The early built 777s are in a perfect age for that,

Yes, but they don't have the fuel capacity. The early 777's are -200 non-ER's. I doubt they'd make great freighters.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 2):
I was told that any passenger 777 would need to have the main-deck floor completely redesigned and replaced because normal freight loading on the main-deck would significantly exceed the design limits of the floor.

This is normal for a freighter conversion, nothing unique to the 777.

Tom.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31446 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2170 times:
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777-200's are still in demand (due to the lack of 777-200ERs available) so I don't expect the values to drop low enough to warrant conversion to freighters for some time (upwards of a decade).

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10819 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1984 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
777-200's are still in demand (due to the lack of 777-200ERs available) so I don't expect the values to drop low enough to warrant conversion to freighters for some time (upwards of a decade).

In a decade most early built 777s will only have scrap value. Many are used on mediumhaul, some even shorthaul.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31446 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1850 times:
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Quoting NA (Reply 8):
In a decade most early built 777s will only have scrap value.

It probably won't be that bad, but you should be able to pick one up for around $20-30 million. With refurbishment and conversion, you'll probably be sub-$50 million to make it a freighter.

The biggest drawback will be that Boeing only built 88 of them. As such, they might very well have more value being parted-out (as Varig did with one of their 77Es).

The 777-200ER would make a more viable passenger-to-freighter conversion due to a greater MTOW and a larger conversion pool. Conversion prices will be around $10-20 million more, due to the greater resale value of the ER model.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1675 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 8):
In a decade most early built 777s will only have scrap value. Many are used on mediumhaul, some even shorthaul.

But the demand for large aircraft on short/medium routes is only going to grow as fuel prices increase...those aircraft are getting for their mission with time, not worse.

Tom.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1593 times:



Quoting FCKC (Reply 3):
Time for A330BCFs will come as well......

BCFs? Will Boeing convert A330s to freighters?



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User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1521 times:



Quoting NA (Thread starter):
Not every operator might need the range of the 777F

Actually, the 777-200ER BCF should get more range than the 777F because of its lower payload. Even with the lower TOW, it still will get very well into the 5000nm+.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
could see something like 777-BCF being used in the role of domestic package hauler much like FX now uses some of its MD-10s

I think the 777 BCF will be too much of an aircraft for a domestic usage and should FDX get them, I would see them as being used the same way as the new fleet of 777F, ie long-haul sectors.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 3):
Time for A330BCFs will come as well

The Airbus nickname is P2F for Passenger to freighter.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10819 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1511 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
But the demand for large aircraft on short/medium routes is only going to grow as fuel prices increase...those aircraft are getting for their mission with time, not worse.

What I meant was that a 20 year old 777 which has mostly flown short routes (like ANA, JAL) will be at the end of its useful life when past 20. It´ll have enough cycles on it to grace the deserts of Mojave. In less than 10 years we will see the first ANA and JAL 777As being scrapped. They´re not worth it anymore to be converted to a freighter. A longhaul ER is a different case.


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