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United P.s - "Home Run In All Perspectives"  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26147 posts, RR: 50
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12248 times:

WSJ today has a piece about United's well received p.s. service and the sucess it has had for the airline.

So what seemed as a gamble at the time, has paid off handsomely becoming the most profitable domestic flights for the carrier.

Quote:
A Posher Domestic First Class
United Sells Space And Comfy Beds On 'p.s.' Flights
July 29, 2008

Take a Boeing 757, remove 40% of the seats and give customers lots more room, better food and flat beds. Does that sound like a typical recipe at a U.S. airline these days? Hardly, but that's exactly what UAL Corp.'s United Airlines did with two of its busiest, most-important routes, and last year they were the best routes financially for the airline in the country.

In late 2004, United launched an experiment converting all its flights between New York and Los Angeles and New York and San Francisco into a premium service it calls United p.s. With p.s. flights, half of the entire cabin is devoted to first- and business-class seats, and the space offered to passengers is close to what you get on premium international offerings. (P.s. has the only domestic lie-flat bed in first class.) "It's been a home run in all perspectives," said John Tague, United's chief operating officer.

Because of the dominance of business-class and first-class seats, and because customers are more willing to pay for premium cabins on p.s., United averages significantly higher average fares on those flights than other domestic trips. In the fourth quarter, according to government data, United's average ticket between New York and Los Angeles was $884 round trip, while regular United service between Newark, N.J., and Los Angeles averaged about half that -- only $448 round trip.

Indeed, aviation consulting firm Simat Helliesen & Eichner Inc. estimated that last year United had operating profits in Asia, Europe and its transcontinental markets. All other domestic routes and Latin America had operating losses.

Full article(free)
http://online.wsj.com/public/article...28185716790977.html?mod=Travel79_1


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12103 times:

Sounds like UA should expand the service to other markets. IAD-west coast, ORD-west coast to start...maybe BOS-west coast down the line.


The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12047 times:

JFK-LAX/SFO is a unique market where this can work, I don't see it working from BOS, IAD or ORD. Especially ORD since it's a hub and requires much more seats than the PS 757s offer, the seating capacity of UAL's PS 757s is about the same as CO's 737-500s.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11935 times:

IIRC,UA retired the 762 not due to BK,but due to their age ,JT9D parts being more scarce and not wanting to invest in new RVM's requirements.

[Edited 2008-07-29 08:54:32]


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11914 times:

Open Skies seems to be a lot like UA's PS. UA should offer this on 757 international routes to compete with open skies, i think they could do very well. It's a very interesting service.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11903 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
JFK-LAX/SFO is a unique market where this can work, I don't see it working from BOS, IAD or ORD. Especially ORD since it's a hub and requires much more seats than the PS 757s offer, the seating capacity of UAL's PS 757s is about the same as CO's 737-500s.

The only other market I could ever see them adding this in would be DCA-West coast if UA every could get (and of course applied for) perimeter slot exemptions.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11681 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
JFK-LAX/SFO is a unique market where this can work, I don't see it working from BOS, IAD or ORD. Especially ORD since it's a hub and requires much more seats than the PS 757s offer, the seating capacity of UAL's PS 757s is about the same as CO's 737-500s.

 checkmark 

Quoting United1 (Reply 5):
The only other market I could ever see them adding this in would be DCA-West coast if UA every could get (and of course applied for) perimeter slot exemptions.

You read my mind. That's just about the only other market I can see p.s. really working in as well. Given the lack of competition on out-of-perimeter routes ex-DCA versus the many airlines ex-JFK, I would think that DCA-SFO/LAX flights would even outperform JFK. I for one would love to see this happen!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26147 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11636 times:

I believe what Mr Tague alludes to in the story about considering other markets has more to do with a JFK connection to either BUR or SNA both areas which provide good number of passengers that utilize the LAX flights.
In with regards to BUR, UA actually was in communications with the airport authority last fall regarding parking options for the 757.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11526 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
In with regards to BUR, UA actually was in communications with the airport authority last fall regarding parking options for the 757.

I wonder where thet'de park a 757 in BUR ? I love that airport! But a 757 would be too long to park where 737's park.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26147 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11451 times:



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 8):
I wonder where thet'de park a 757 in BUR ? I love that airport! But a 757 would be too long to park where 737's park.

Dont forget until 2006 DL ran BUR-ATL on B757 for a bit while in the 80s UA even had 767 service at BUR, and further back PSA had L-1011 service at the airport.

For parking it would be across runways where Fedex freighters park and passengers would be bussed to/from the terminal.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11427 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
For parking it would be across runways where Fedex freighters park and passengers would be bussed to/from the terminal.

And that would kill it for the hollywood crowd.

Now, if p.s. F/J had their own lounge and terminal area near the charter jet terminals, maybe they would feel more important. Park the planes there, bus the Y pax over?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11377 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
For parking it would be across runways where Fedex freighters park and passengers would be bussed to/from the terminal.

And that would kill it for the hollywood crowd.

Now, if p.s. F/J had their own lounge and terminal area near the charter jet terminals, maybe they would feel more important. Park the planes there, bus the Y pax over?

Yes,but they would have to have TSA facilities over there,too.Whatabout baggage claim? That's already a bit crowded in BUR.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11187 times:



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 11):
Yes,but they would have to have TSA facilities over there,too.Whatabout baggage claim? That's already a bit crowded in BUR.

Exactly. It would need to be a fully staffed area, with baggage claim and TSA. Currently there is TSA for the charters, right? And again, we are talking all of 38 pax per flight. You need 1 TSA line for that. And luggage would also be easy to separate and deal with.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25692 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11171 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Now, if p.s. F/J had their own lounge and terminal area near the charter jet terminals, maybe they would feel more important. Park the planes there, bus the Y pax over?

Didn't MGM Grand Air have their own terminal over there somewhere?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26147 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11111 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Didn't MGM Grand Air have their own terminal over there somewhere?

At LAX yes - the old Imperial Terminal charter facility, but MGM did not operate from BUR.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11053 times:



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 3):
IIRC,UA retired the 762 not due to BK,but due to their age ,JT9D parts being more scarce and not wanting to invest in new RVM's requirements.

I am not sure that is the reason. The DRVSM was already in place at the time the last 762s were flying. Plus the engines were the same PWs on the 763 and 744 so that was not an issue.

Like they flew it from JFK, BOS, IAD etc to the west coast. Now other then JFK, they put bigger planes on those routes to add to the A320s and 757s. So now one 763 or 777 flight can do instead of 2 762 flights. On the same token.... flights like DTW-ORD in the 762 were taken off the line and more 757s and RJs moved in to fill the void.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11042 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 15):
Plus the engines were the same PWs on the 763 and 744 so that was not an issue.

Um,no. The 762's had JT9D's . Different than the P&W's on 763/744's. 741/2/-SP,maybe.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11007 times:

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 16):

Thats what the 763 and 744 have now..... a JT9D model(albit newer) of engine IIRC.

Take a look at the Vision Air 762s for the CIA. They are old -222s with the original engine still on them.

[Edited 2008-07-29 13:28:06]

User currently offlineCa2ohhp From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10952 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
For parking it would be across runways where Fedex freighters park and passengers would be bussed to/from the terminal.

B2 and B4 accomodate 757's at BUR.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10929 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 17):
Thats what the 763 and 744 have now..... a JT9D model(albit newer) of engine IIRC.

Take a look at the Vision Air 762s for the CIA. They are old -222s with the original engine still on them.

The 763/744s are powered by PW4000 series engines which is the successor engine to the JT9D. While I'm sure there are bits in common the PW4000s are of a much newer design and it's kind of like comparing a 737-Classic to the 737-NextGen, both models share a common heritage and general design however one is fundamentally more efficient then the other.

The 762s were retired because they were the most expensive aircraft in the fleet to operate, and at the time a major overhaul would have been required to keep them in the fleet for much longer. It was judged to be more economical to retrofit the 752s during the cash crunch going on during BK.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10905 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 19):

Exactly, they must have all been right at the peak of the D-checks.

Yeah PW4000 makes sense now that I think about it, they just all look the same  Smile


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10154 times:

Here's some tidbits from PAXstats Beta 3 regarding the NYC-LAX market. UA indeed has a nice revenue premium on LAX-JFK, where the RASM is more than 21% higher than their nearest competitor. UA's yield is nearly a third higher than their nearest competitor.

Route … Seg Rev/Dep … Seg RASM … AdjRASM … Tkt Yield … Contrib Yield … LF
LAX-JFK (UA) … $39,938.86 … $0.14479 … $0.25467 … $0.16881 … $0.14633 … 76.12%
LAX-JFK (AA) … $49,332.58 … $0.11936 … $0.20994 … $0.12878 … $0.11866 … 86.48%
LAX-EWR (CO) … $36,192.88 … $0.08894 … $0.15578 … $0.10198 … $0.09890 … 84.77%
LAX-JFK (DL) … $30,331.62 … $0.07293 … $0.12828 … $0.09233 … $0.08972 … 77.01%
JFK-LGB (B6) … $26,367.49 … $0.07131 … $0.12518 … $0.08449 … $0.08597 … 85.58%
JFK-BUR (B6) … $26,006.60 … $0.07034 … $0.12346 … $0.08599 … $0.08658 … 82.24%
LAX-EWR (AA) … $31,784.82 … $0.07035 … $0.12322 … $0.09201 … $0.08693 … 72.55%
LAX-EWR (UA) … $20,304.63 … $0.05806 … $0.10168 … $0.08955 … $0.08581 … 61.84%


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9889 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
Sounds like UA should expand the service to other markets. IAD-west coast, ORD-west coast to start...maybe BOS-west coast down the line.

The service wouldn't work from IAD or ORD. There are just too many leisure travellers going out of those airports due to them being UA hubs. JFK is special because it's not a hub for UA, and the presence of EWR in the NYC market allows UA to send the business travellers to JFK and charge them the appropriate premium while still offering the bargain basement fares out of EWR.

BOS might be ok, though. And, as mentioned, DCA would be great if UA could get the exemptions to run it (and if the runway was long enough - it must be pretty tight).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9803 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
DCA would be great if UA could get the exemptions to run it (and if the runway was long enough - it must be pretty tight).

Don't quote me but DCA does not have the range rule like LGA. Also RWY1/19 is about 7000feet which should be no problem for a LAX/SFO bound 757.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

If CO and UAL decide to revisit their proposed merger CO's 767-200ERs would make a great platform to combine with UAL's PS service. CO's 767-200ERs are all new builds the oldest of which is from 2000.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 Kaitak744 : How many 757s are in the PS configuration? Also, what are the frequencies on JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO for UA?
26 LAXintl : Thanks for sharing the data MOBflyer. You would not happen to be also to share the SFO/OAK numbers maybe to see how players stack up in the Bay Area?
27 LACA773 : I agree completely. This would be an excellent p2p route for UA.
28 LAXintl : 13 Varies between 6-8 on each route seasonally and also day of week
29 Spacecadet : Egads, you mean people will pay more for better service?? Shock!
30 ThreeIfByAir : If any DCA slot exemptions come available, DCA-SFO in P.S. would seem to be an excellent idea - there is no nonstop service from DCA to anywhere in t
31 Post contains images AAH732UAL : To add.... the DCA base could fly it since the DCA domicile has a big hunk of F/As at DCA. The weird thing was.... the PS bird did BOS-IAD in a 9000
32 Ikramerica : Well, when you have so few seats, and 1/2 your plane is premium, of course your RASM is going to be high. But what's the CASM? AA has great revenue p
33 FlyMD : Agree, but maybe having a few PS flights per day in each direction might be a good idea. There is a very loyal FF base that would probably love the s
34 MOBflyer : The difference is even more stark. UA has a yield premium in excess of 50% over AA. Route … Seg Rev/Dep … Seg RASM … AdjRASM … Tkt Yield …
35 LACA773 : It would be nice if UA would bring back the meal service in Y+ on their p.s. flights or at least offer an upgraded, premium BOB meal service instead o
36 Tcfc424 : There are more than 38 pax...the configuration is 12F, 26C, 72Y+. There is no true economy section, as all seats are economy plus seats. Also, every s
37 SparkingWave : Ditto that. I have flown in coach on two trips on UAs PS service between JFK and LAX and I was disappointed in the meager offerings in coach class, c
38 Planespotting : How much weight is saved on a typical PS 757, due to lack of pax and fewer seats? Could it make SNA-JFK nonstop off John Wayne's notoriously short run
39 LAXintl : Lets look at the average DOT direct operating cost data supplied by the airlines for the 12mos of 2007. For the sake of currency, I have adjusted the
40 AAH732UAL : That would be cool but also hard to staff....... Like it would either have to be ORD, DEN, SFO based crew after flying in. I guess they could make it
41 UAL777UK : I have been fortunate and on flying PS, have only flown F & J but I concur, PS means PS...all classes should get food with the ticket....not BOB in Y
42 Gigneil : I don't know for sure that I agree... but it is something I'd considered in the past and it might work. The thing is, JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO aren't rest
43 SoBe : I thought UA had both a pilot and FA domicile at JFK. Is this not correct or is it another issue?
44 Ikramerica : There are 38 J and F pax per flight, which is what i was talking about. While the p.s. planes have Y+ seats, they are sold as Y through Travelocity a
45 LAXintl : Yes UA does have a NY cockpit and cabin crew base.
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