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Emirates Still On Track For More Than 100 A380s  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 19000 times:

" I want to double the A380s number " said Tim Clark in Le Figaro.

He follows

"55 is the maximum we can welcome at the old Dubai airport "

" Emirates could buy many more A380s , and the second DXB airport , in construction could handle them "

More than one year ago i opened a thread about , Emirates will buy 100 A380s.
They still have this goal in sight.Maybe more , since perhaps the next batch of A380s they will buy , could be A380-900s.

Really they will do all they will be able to do , to become the Airline No1 in the world.

Astonishing...

170 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18957 times:

I think it will take the A380-900 to make it possible. 55 A388 and 45 A389?

I just don't understand what they can do with that much capacity, in just the A380s not to mention all their 777s and the rest of their jets!


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18949 times:

Well, this puts to rest the idea that he was talking about the A389s replacing the A388s. He's clearly talking about 100 at one time, which, in my opinion, is ludicrous. But hey, they are building ridiculously large buildings for no particular reason, so why not 100 A380s?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4119 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18898 times:

I guess this is their version of 'A Chicken in Every Pot.' How many U.S. stations does Emirates have now, and how many do they expect by the turn of the decade (2010)?

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18899 times:

Seems to me only EK at DXB taking all the places, if they dont expand to an airport big as Belgium

//Micke  

[Edited 2008-07-30 09:44:46]


Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinePhilzh From Switzerland, joined May 2007, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18846 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But hey, they are building ridiculously large buildings for no particular reason, so why not 100 A380s?

I think you just nailed it. This *is* Dubai, after all.


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18781 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
they are building ridiculously large buildings for no particular reason, so why not 100 A380s?

Have you actually ever flown EK, ever been to DXB, ever experienced their operations yourself?

I fly them quite often (4 round trips a year to Asia, connecting at DXB, meaning 16 segments) and the flights have a very good load factor, the airport at Dubai is always crowded with pax, and their expansion just seems to follow the trend of growing demand by their (new) pax.

The idea they fly empty jets all over the world just for prestige is an idea which lives only with those who haven't seen it for themselves.

I can very well see them getting a fleet of 100 A380 indeed and serve all of the key airports in the world at least twice daily, and many of these routes can see a VLA used on them.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 3):
How many U.S. stations does Emirates have now, and how many do they expect by the turn of the decade (2010)?

Bingo! How many places see EK service in the USA?

If EK is really going to go after the crown of biggest airline in the world, they will have to match BA LH and AF on the transatlantic routes too...

In 5 to 10 years time, EK may well be serving most of the main international US airports twice daily! They'll sure need a huge fleet for that...

The pax to make it work are definitely out there, all it takes is to convince them to fly EK. A fleet of 100 A380 might give them the competitive edge to win them over: be it through comfort AND price. No other plane can offer both at the same time, which is why EK is so hooked on the A380 IMO.

With a customer like EK, the A380 has a guarantee on future success. 100 A380 are apparently in the plan right now, and all of them which will need to be rolled over in 15 years... add some more expansion to it, and EK may very well not even have ordered a quarter of all the VLAs they will need in the next 2 decades!


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18749 times:
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Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 3):
I guess this is their version of 'A Chicken in Every Pot.' How many U.S. stations does Emirates have now, and how many do they expect by the turn of the decade (2010)?

JFK and Houston, now, coming are LAX and SFO. Miami, Chicago, Boston, IAD would be welcome.


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18722 times:

If you want to have an idea about what EK's US destination map may look like in 10 years, have a look at all the secondary places LH, BA and/or AF fly to...

There's a lot of expansion for them left on the DXB-USA, especially if you know they like to go double daily on their routes!


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18657 times:

when global finance turns to other areas, and the oil rich nations surrounding dubai start to dry out, they wont have as much growth. 100 A380s? Not a chance

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18629 times:
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This will take JXB. But when would JXB be able to handle a huge number of passengers? Last I looked, EK was out of DXB until at least 2015.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
"55 is the maximum we can welcome at the old Dubai airport "

I wonder if they couldn't squeeze a few more in by having a 3rd hub wave to Europe?  scratchchin 

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
I think it will take the A380-900 to make it possible. 55 A388 and 45 A389?

 checkmark  I think the A380-900 will easily outsell the A388.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
the airport at Dubai is always crowded with pax, and their expansion just seems to follow the trend of growing demand by their (new) pax.

EK's growth is limited by:
1. Aircraft or more precisely aircraft utilization.*
2. Airport capacity (which should be fixed in a month or so with the opening of the new concourse)
3. Hotels in Dubai**

* I believe a 3rd hub wave to Europe would allow a 10% improvement in airframe utilization over the current EK opperations.

** EK's model requires a high fraction of stay over traffic.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
Bingo! How many places see EK service in the USA?

Expansion is important for EK. I would argue that their expansion to China will be the big growth driver over the next few years. Too many airports in China lack connections to the West or only have connections at one or two European airports. (Not exactly conducive for a trip to Africa or India.)

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
be it through comfort AND price.

The *and price* requires the A389 vs. the 789.  Wink

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18553 times:

Why not put Airbus on the spot by saying that future A380 orders will need to include some aircraft of the 900 variety? Launch of A380-900 some time after 2010 with orders from EK, CX, China and any (happy) A380-800 operators who see routes where they could use the extra capacity?

Just an idea to push Airbus into bringing the A389 forward a bit.

If the A389 had more efficient engines, they could then be transferred to the A388 as well, I guess, helping to maintain a fuel burn advantage versus the competition.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18542 times:

This isn't surprising of Oil Rich areas, look at a lot of the people who get their money from the oil and don't actually do anything, like one person has something like 35 RR cars, whats the point, just to gouge the world and then buy stuff you never use.

Emirates can't even fill their planes now as it is. What they need 100 A380's for is beyond me or probably any other airline.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18437 times:

How much is oil in that region? Do you think they get a break from taxes?

User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18311 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 9):
when global finance turns to other areas, and the oil rich nations surrounding dubai start to dry out, they wont have as much growth. 100 A380s? Not a chance

I disagree - Dubai is superbly placed as basically in the middle of several major regions - AsiaPacific, Asia, India and Europe (and at a stretch, the US east coast), not to mention the yet-to-be developed market that is bound to spring up in Africa over the next 50 - 100 years.

All Emirates has to do is tap into each of those markets and fly throguh Dubai - the tapping doesn't even have to be into a market with capacity required, so long as Emirates can kill off some domestic competition in the process.

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 13):
How much is oil in that region? Do you think they get a break from taxes?

Its been asked many times, and has been answered many times.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18291 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
JFK and Houston, now, coming are LAX and SFO. Miami, Chicago, Boston, IAD would be welcome.



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
If you want to have an idea about what EK's US destination map may look like in 10 years, have a look at all the secondary places LH, BA and/or AF fly to...

There's a lot of expansion for them left on the DXB-USA, especially if you know they like to go double daily on their routes!

Sorry, but I don't get the rationale for these posts.

First of all, the reasons LH, BA and AF fly to a lot of American cities is that the US has a lot of people who are French, British or German in ancestry and our country does a lot of business with these three European countries both with tourism and corporate travel.

Second, I don't understand where the traffic for DXB-USA service will come from. Of course JFK-DXB is important because New York is the financial capital of the US. IAH-DXB is important because Houston is a major oil center. But ORD-DXB? LAX-DXB? SFO-DXB? I know many people who travel around the world taking cruises, on business and as tourists. I have never heard anybody express any interest in traveling to Dubai.

I am sorry if people don't like to hear this, but to most Americans Dubai, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the MIddle East are all the same to them. Interest in travel to the area other than on required business is somewhere between zero and none.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18212 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 15):
Interest in travel to the area other than on required business is somewhere between zero and none.

That can change. Meanwhile, business traffic to the Middle East is strong. Traffic of all kinds to India, Pakistan is strong. Traffic to Africa is growing by a lot.

The USA is not, and never will be Emirates' primary concern. But it's important. Emirates is not a tourist airline, for the most part! It hits the homelands for about 2 or 3 billion people, that's a market right there. Plus strong business traffic to those regions.


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18179 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 15):
our country does a lot of business with these three European countries both with tourism and corporate travel.

And now you do a lot of business with China - things change over time, give them long enough. Dubai is trying to reinvent itself as a tourism and business hub, and its looking like its going to be successful.

Also remember that there are a *lot* of ex-pats living on the Arabian peninsula.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18136 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But hey, they are building ridiculously large buildings for no particular reason, so why not 100 A380s?

Ridiculously high rents in Dubai certainly are a reason to build new buildings, or not?

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Emirates can't even fill their planes now as it is.

No?

From their 2007 results:

"Passenger seat factor increased to 79.8 per cent from 76.2 per cent the previous year."

http://www.emirates.com/de/english/a...ATES_POSTS_NEW_RECORD_PROFITS.aspx


In addition:

"Emirates Airline’s revenues totalled AED 39.5 billion ($ 10.8 billion), an increase of 32.3 per cent from AED 29.8 billion ($ 8.1 billion) the previous year. Airline profits of AED 5 billion ($1.37 billion) marked a 62.1 per cent increase over 2006-07’s record profits of AED 3.1 billion ($844 million)."

So they are certainly making a lot of money flying people through the DXB hub. Their concept is great, only fear I have is that the competition will hurt them. QR, EY, and some others are headed for expansion, also there will be competition from low-cost carriers like FlyDubai and Air Arabia. On the O&D market to DXB, which is certainly going to grow as the city grows and grows, there will be lot of competition from the carriers of other countries flying widebodies into DXB.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18036 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
This isn't surprising of Oil Rich areas, look at a lot of the people who get their money from the oil and don't actually do anything, like one person has something like 35 RR cars, whats the point, just to gouge the world and then buy stuff you never use.

Hmm! lot of those in places like Texas too, isn't there?

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Emirates can't even fill their planes now as it is.

You've obviously never flown Emirates, or actually know very much about them, if that's your view.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 15):
I am sorry if people don't like to hear this, but to most Americans Dubai, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the MIddle East are all the same to them. Interest in travel to the area other than on required business is somewhere between zero and none.

Why are you sorry thinking whether people like to hear it.....who like? Indeed, such thinking (that they are the same) simply shows ignorance and profound lack of knowledge. I don't mean to be rude, and please correct me if I'm in error, but your comments infer that Americans' knowledge is an ultimate deciding factor and/or the be-all, end-all. Not the case at all I'm afraid, and certainly not to EK who's, as Flighty corrects states, primary concern is certainly not the US


User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17979 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 14):
Its been asked many times, and has been answered many times.

There are lots of threads and I don't read them all; so you mind answering it one more time?  Smile


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17949 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
I think it will take the A380-900 to make it possible. 55 A388 and 45 A389?

It will be nice to see a launch order of 45 for the A389, with no conversions from A388.

The A389 will burn the same amount of fuel as A388, while carrying 100 more passengers(589 seats) in EK's configuration--leading to a 15% reduction in GSM(gallon seat mile). On routes where there is sufficient demand to fill an A389, it will have close to $15 million in additional annual revenue over A388. Even if the A389 cost $30 million more, it would take only two years to recover that.

If it costs $1 billion to develop the A389, then at $20 million profit per unit, the break even point is 50 units.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17874 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 9):
when global finance turns to other areas, and the oil rich nations surrounding dubai start to dry out, they wont have as much growth. 100 A380s? Not a chance

So you expect them to run 100 A380ies at the same time? Delivery time is long for such large amount and they´ll sell off the older ones when they get their latest.
Remember BA got +50 B747s, don´t know how many they gone throu over the years?
Emirates is as important to the A380 as Pan Am was for the B747.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17867 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
That can change. Meanwhile, business traffic to the Middle East is strong. Traffic of all kinds to India, Pakistan is strong. Traffic to Africa is growing by a lot.

I am sure that there is a lot of traffic from Europe to South Asia. There are certainly a lot of Pakistanis and Indians in Britain. But the posts I referenced were referring to Emirates service to the US. I live in Southern California which is the most multi-racial part of the US and there aren't a lot of Indians or Pakistanis or Middle Easterners living here. It is mostly East Asian and Hispanic. I just don't see where all the traffic for Emirates from LA is going to come from.

Quoting Moo (Reply 17):
And now you do a lot of business with China - things change over time, give them long enough. Dubai is trying to reinvent itself as a tourism and business hub, and its looking like its going to be successful.

Also remember that there are a *lot* of ex-pats living on the Arabian peninsula.

China has 1.2 billion people. The UAE has 4.2 million. I don't see the comparison.

Are you talking about American ex-pats who don't work for the oil companies? I find it hard to believe. A lot of American ex-pats live in Mexico or Costa Rica, but hardly the Middle East. It is too expensive there for us and Americans have no wish to live in a Moslem country.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 19):
Why are you sorry thinking whether people like to hear it.....who like? Indeed, such thinking (that they are the same) simply shows ignorance and profound lack of knowledge. I don't mean to be rude, and please correct me if I'm in error, but your comments infer that Americans' knowledge is an ultimate deciding factor and/or the be-all, end-all. Not the case at all I'm afraid, and certainly not to EK who's, as Flighty corrects states, primary concern is certainly not the US

The last time I suggested that Americans were not really interested in visiting Muslim countries in the Middle East, I was so thoroughly flamed in this forum I needed skin grafts.

If you will check my original posting, you will see that I was not questioning all of Emirates expansion plans, only the suggestions by some in this forum that Emirates wanted to operate two flights per day to all the major American hubs. I questioned the business sense of doing this as I did not think the traffic would be there.

With your statement that the US is not the primary concern of Emirates, you have answered my question.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17801 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 19):
Quoting Eghansen (Reply 15):
I am sorry if people don't like to hear this, but to most Americans Dubai, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the MIddle East are all the same to them. Interest in travel to the area other than on required business is somewhere between zero and none.

Why are you sorry thinking whether people like to hear it.....who like? Indeed, such thinking (that they are the same) simply shows ignorance and profound lack of knowledge. I don't mean to be rude, and please correct me if I'm in error, but your comments infer that Americans' knowledge is an ultimate deciding factor and/or the be-all, end-all. Not the case at all I'm afraid, and certainly not to EK who's, as Flighty corrects states, primary concern is certainly not the US

I think what he meant was, many Americans are uninterested in traveling to the Middle East right now, due to the amount of conflict. There is obviously a huge difference between going to the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. and going to Iraq/Iran etc. However, as AirNZ and Flighty both state, since EK's primary expansion concerns aren't necessarily in the U.S., who cares??

Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
The USA is not, and never will be Emirates' primary concern.



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 19):
Not the case at all I'm afraid, and certainly not to EK who's, as Flighty corrects states, primary concern is certainly not the US

EK will attract business travelers from IAH/JFK/LAX to keep them happy. I have to say, if I was wealthy, I would love to have a place in Dubai-it's practically a playground for the wealthy. And I would gladly fly there in a first class suite on an EK 389... yes 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
25 AirNZ : Thanks for the clarification there and at least I now know what you meant, and which is very different though from what you said. Sorry for any flami
26 Themightydude : I for one as an American who travels quite often, do not really have any sort of wish/desire to travel to the middle east. I think Emirates will attra
27 Moo : And just how many of that 1.2 billion is actually involved in any dealings with a foreign country, and how many are simply subsistence farmers? Ex-pa
28 Ramzi : I think you should grab an Emirates brochure and look through the hotels and attractions in cities like Dubai. In fact I think you simply need to go
29 Chiad : Maybe you wont be travelling to the Dubai now, but let's see what's going to happen in say ... 5 years. And if EK's plan work you will be travelling
30 FCKC : As soon as production problem will be over for the A380 , Emirates will receive one A380 every month during 5 years , simply to respect the 58 units o
31 Rev3oh2 : We would very much love to have an Emirates 380 in Charlotte. Right now we have only 2 US Airways A330s to London and Frankfurt, and an LH 346 to Muni
32 Ozair : All this expansion is good as long as the region stays stable! In 5 years you could have Iran and Israel lobbing MRBM at each other which would reduce
33 Eghansen : Whenever I see photographs of the hotels in Dubai, it always reminds me of Las Vegas. If it is a choice between sitting for 16 hours in the 10-across
34 Jetjack74 : It's all tied to the massive construction and expansion going there. Unless they get industry other than oil there, Dubai is a accident waiting to ha
35 LAXDESI : If demand does not materialise, they always have the option to lease them at competitive rates to airlines who do not have the capital to buy them.
36 PVG : That's the problem with their plan, they will have well financed competition in the area and there is only room for so many. I also assume that the c
37 Post contains links Mariner : Dubai itself does not have that much oil. http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...-gdp/2007/02/04/1170523960351.html "Oil accounted for only 3 per cen
38 TXKF2010 : So should be maybe see a flight added to Calgary or Edmonton? They got oil too. Maybe even Toronto too? I'd think they'd go Atlanta before the rest,
39 Jetjack74 : They would have to find an awfully big market to find work for a bulk of the 100 A380's. My personal belief is that most of these, if they even get b
40 Stitch : Well it seems reasonable that based on EK's traffic growth, they can replace every one of their 77Ws (and I expect them to keep adding to that fleet i
41 PM : Evidence?
42 AirNZ : Dubai is absolutely nothing like Las Vegas.....and indeed, by your post, you clearly have no idea of anything about Dubai, yet obviously have formed
43 Lightsaber : Hey, its August there. That's the slow season. But everything else I read about EK points to a lack of seats! EK would love further rights to Canada,
44 Kaitak744 : Dubai has very little oil. They are kind of like New York City in the U.S. (Not much industry or manufacturing, but a major hub of regional business
45 Rwy04LGA : And soon, also Kuwait. Count Jordan, Egypt, and DXB among those already served by Delta. I, for one, can't wait to visit DXB.[Edited 2008-07-30 21:24
46 Slz396 : Indeed. Interesting to see that when I mention the fact EK might seek to go double daily on around 15 to 20 US destinations in less than 10 years tim
47 PVG : Why does every continue to assume that their competitors are going to sit back and let them do this? I really think that everyone is seriously over-e
48 KU747 : I totally disagree.
49 Slz396 : How many of SQ's pax stay in Singapore? Many SQ pax never set foot in downtown Singapore, they just make use of the airline because it is convenient.
50 GDB : Oil, oil oil, but has it ever entered the heads of those who bang on about this that Dubai is planning for a post oil future? Do they actually have an
51 CHRISBA777ER : So can I mate. I fact - I've done some feasibility studies in my spare time about EK's growth potential mapped across four different growth rates/mod
52 KU747 : Just want to clear something here, We have many americans with their families who are living in Kuwait and working not only in oil sector but almost
53 PVG : I don't know how many of SQ passengers leave the airport, but, personally, I would rather hang in Singapore than Dubai. I ask you, how many people go
54 Moo : From the UK, its quite a popular destination these days.
55 GBan : This is OT, but I think you haven't even opened your eyes to see one desert.
56 Post contains images Scbriml : Com on Ikramerica, you're smart enough to know there's a real business driving EK. Fly lots of people between lots of destinations? Just a guess. I t
57 PVG : Ok, is that for sightseeing or shopping? if for shopping, what happens when the dollar strengthens (which is going to happen sooner or later) and sho
58 CHRISBA777ER : I've been twice for this very reason and am going again in September for a long weekend Alas am flying BA, not EK. Still, four nights deluxe room at
59 PVG : it has everything to do with oil as they benefit from: A) Being the best airline in a region that is generating great wealth and growth from oil prod
60 PVG : OK, good for you. I guess that you like the place. Personally doesn't do much for me. See, how is EK ever going to beat that!
61 Slz396 : You still don't get it don't you? EK could be located in the middle of the Arabian desert and still be as successful as it is today, because its busi
62 Mariner : No one is saying that. Singapore and Qantas, for example, compete fiercely with Emirates and all are very profitable. mariner
63 CHRISBA777ER : EK were only £50 more per person but the BA flights were timed better and I havent been on a nice Speedbird 744 for a while.
64 Art : Perhaps, but if EK had not bought the capacity from Airbus, they would presumably have bought it from Boeing (unless they can expand profitably using
65 Mariner : I'm not. I fly Emirates two or three times a year, and I never go anywhere near Dubai. mariner
66 PVG : I do get it. I just don't see how they are going to keep going at the rate that they are going without either killing off themselves or most of their
67 AirNZ : As you say, you don't know and indeed, from your couple of posts, I would suggest you really don't know that much about Dubai at all. If you would ra
68 Moo : PVG, the main point here is that EK have had massive growth for 22 out of its 23 years, with year on year growth being nothing less than 20% and often
69 Art : I share your reservation. However if LAXDESI is right, Airbus could charge sufficient premium for the A389 (Airbus would have data to know how large
70 Slz396 : I will have to ask you again: where do you get the idea from EK are going to put any other airline out of business??? Nobody ever claimed that!!! Loo
71 PVG : By maintaining a fixed exchange to the Dollar, they are essentially using the Dollar as their currency no matter what they care to call it. So, if th
72 Moo : And the solution is whats been over the horizon for a while now - trade oil in other currencies.
73 Scbriml : I'd go as far as saying it's become a very popular destination. Check the facts - EK flies international from more UK airports than any other airline
74 Slz396 : There currency isn't fixed against the dollar, it is allowed to move freely within a certain pre-set fork. Saying the Dirham equals the dollar is lik
75 PVG : I get your point. My point is that I just don't see how the market will be able to absorb all of the additional capacity that they are going to be in
76 Moo : Emirates has justified it for 28 years now....
77 PVG : It essentially fixed to the Dollar like the Chinese Yuan is and the Hong Kong Dollar is. There is little movement from day to day unless the governme
78 PVG : We're talking about a whole new level of justification now. We'll just have to see then.
79 Slz396 : I can understand your scepticism, but allow me to say this: Is the market already served well enough? I doubt it, seeing how full EK planes can be on
80 PVG : Surprised that it hasn't happened already.
81 EXAAUADL : Rubbish........................oh sure I exepect we'll soon see EK flying 2x daily from DEN, PHX, SAN etc.........yawn
82 Carls : AirNZ I think, and forgive me for advice you this, you shouldn't waste your time answering this. Someone who compares Dubai to Las Vegas shows that h
83 EXAAUADL : This is why so many fixed dollar economies right now are experiencing high inflation
84 Astuteman : They aren't. They're already getting the equipment they need.... I think the polarity of views illustrates that some will go and some won't. Extrapol
85 AirNZ : You are talking absolute and unadulterated nonsense....it is absolutely not set against the US dollar exchange rate! I wish you would keep to facts b
86 Slz396 : Are we discussing the airline and its business model and strategy, or are we discussing the reason of existance of Dubai as a trade center? In case y
87 EXAAUADL : But i bet there is a lot of traffic from those cities to India, Pakistan. Plus NCL is an oil center. Look, EK isnt exempt from the problems that plag
88 Post contains links PVG : from www.cia.gov: Economy - overview: The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus. Despite largely su
89 CHRISBA777ER : You are absolutely right of course and some on this forum (myself included) can come across rather hysterical about EK and its busines model. The fac
90 Post contains images Slz396 : Many connecting pax to the Indian Peninsula and many to Australia as well. NCL an oil center??? Let's not exaggerate here, shall we? The fact is Nort
91 Okapi : What a great thread! EK is doing what SQ and CX have done in the 90's, at a much faster pace. We are lucky to being able to witness it. We have the In
92 Moo : Thing is, we aren't talking about a whole new level of justification - they already operate nearly 10% of the 777s built to date.
93 TISTPAA727 : I think this shows a lack of understanding of what Dubai is becoming through its reinventing process. Dubai may occupy a very small piece of the worl
94 CHRISBA777ER : Its got a lot of IT and commercial/light industry up there, some very big companies have large presences there - its a very up and coming area, but a
95 Slz396 : Production is rather slow today because Airbus is still hand-wiring the planes coming of the line, but in a few months, they should switch to the ful
96 TN757Flyer : Well glad to see I'm not the only person that feels this way. While the UAE isn't going to suffer as much from world economic downturns (read: high o
97 EXAAUADL : Given that AA, CO, DL all have nonstops to India and UA probably will by 2015, EK wont offer anything that doesnt currenty exist. Sure EK will carry
98 Plobax : EK could easily add 20 to 30 destinations in Europe. Spain/Portugal, Benelux, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe are not covered. Only 1 Destination in Ru
99 CHRISBA777ER : I think in the future we may see some incredible consolidation moves and these are necessary - EK is driving the market in many segments and will soon
100 CHRISBA777ER : What if its $150-200 cheaper and offers excellent food with a choice of options, much better legroom, a much more generous loyalty programme, vastly
101 Okapi : But even a.netters don't fancy that much the idea of staying on board an aircraft for 18/20 hours. Let alone the average passenger. If the hub really
102 Plobax : no, I mean they have CURRENTLY only two, CDG and NCE. They can easily add LYS, MRS, possibly STR for connections to Asia/Oceania. Plus BRU, AMS, LUX,
103 MCOGVADCA : PVG, petro-economically speaking, you're absolutely correct. Anyone who claims that Dubai's economy is not dependent (at least indirectly) on oil has
104 Slz396 : The interesting thing here is that those who keep saying EK is flying empty jets allover the world just for prestige, have actually never flown the a
105 MCOGVADCA : This coming from a Belgian? That's adorable. Enjoy your country. While it lasts... Yeah, some Americans have minimal geographic knowledge, but some of
106 CHRISBA777ER : MCO wont happen - yields would be basically non-existent. SFO and LAX are next up after JFK and IAH - launching this Autumn. After that - well - I ex
107 Pylon101 : It si completely impossible to talk about EK and Dubai and the region with people who have never been there and/or interested in this particular airli
108 MCOGVADCA : Not on something with a large front of the plane, but an A350 could. Please don't play the yields card when it comes to the Middle East. Saudis love
109 MCOGVADCA : The world's low yield capital? And, let us not forget the one gaping hole in EK's route map...NRT. Why haven't they forked over the cash for slots, o
110 CHRISBA777ER : I take your point about Saudi's loving Orlando - but that alone is not enough to support a flight. EK will go to MIA and/or ATL and that will be it.
111 Okapi : Many people still think this way. Ignorance can't be fought easily, however, smart actors like Boeing executives and Airbus people have no trouble wh
112 CHRISBA777ER : Manila has poor yields as well - why do EK fly there then eh? The region has 3.5m population, an expanding tourism market, A LOT of migrant workers l
113 CHRISBA777ER : Its not a case of money, put it that way. IIRC they are planning HND flights instead, but I have a feeling buying SQ's stake in VS would allow them a
114 Ikramerica : I've yet to hear a breakdown of where people believe EK can send all the A380s. With 100 in the fleet, EK will need 50 or so cities in the world that
115 GDB : The ignorance about Dubai on here is hysterical, driven it seems also by an inability to see beyond some pretty limited horizons. And at last reveled,
116 MCOGVADCA : They actually have signs in the airport in that read sometihng like "Voted Best Asian Low Fare Airport, 2005" A high yielding destination it is not.
117 MCOGVADCA : I think you mean "If not thanks to your country, Taiwan province would be nothing more than a red province of mainland China." Ca veut dire, le pays
118 MCOGVADCA : Didn't one of the Middle Eastern carriers try it, with the migrant workers in mind? I'm thinking Etihad maybe? But if anyone can, it's EK. "Pathfinde
119 KissK : QR also gets oil at a cheaper rate in DOH ... but they are not profitable
120 CHRISBA777ER : If you read my earlier post - I noted QR fly there with A332 equipment. No question Shenzhen would be a better bet, but I expect EK to fly there soon
121 MCOGVADCA : ah, sorry, I hate it when people do that, now i'm just as bad.
122 Alessandro : This I seriously doubt, the demand of newer aircrafts are so great now with current oilprices that their first A380ies will be older than they want t
123 Thorben : Really? Dubai is going to have only one exceptional high skyscraper, the Burj Dubai with 818m, around 200m of that will be a spire. Thinking that Dub
124 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Almost every year for the past 10 years (though not yet in 2008) Every year since 90's (though not this year, but I will be in a few months) While th
125 B752OS : Dubai will be a massive tourist destination within the next 4-5 years, no doubt about it. It all depends on where you are from for Dubai to be a popu
126 AirNZ : Sorry, could you explain that for me please? Technically that's correct, although it just happens to be the CEO of EK doing the talking/planning and
127 GLAGAZ : I'm not sure I like your phrasing. "Dull" doesn't come into it if the flights make money. Also GLA is a daily 77W. Gaz
128 TN757Flyer : I dare say all a.netter's are not the high fare, high yield customers that airlines covet. Most of my colleagues who fly regularly for business don't
129 Stitch : Perhaps throw the two-class 700-seat special on the run?
130 Enilria : Be glad you don't work in revenue management at Emirates. Jeez, they are setting themselves up for a yield meltdown.
131 Stitch : If they can drive down their costs with all those seats and other efficiencies...
132 Post contains links PVG : In case my other post was too long for you to read: Exchange rates: Emirati dirhams per US dollar - 3.673 (2007), 3.673 (2006), 3.6725 (2005), 3.6725
133 PVG : Thanks. Yes, China/Africa and India will be larger markets in 20 years. I absolutely agree. I've spent the majority of my time in those areas over th
134 Banjo76 : [quote=Jacobin777,reply=124] That is the longest post I've ever seen. Banjo
135 PVG : They have stated quite clearly that Singapore is their model. I'm simply stating my belief that they are over-estimating their ability to do what the
136 Okapi : I agree with you, partially though. Let's have a look at the world's most flown long-haul sectors: NY-London : 6 hrs. Add any US east coast to Europe
137 Mariner : But it isn't necessarily just a 2-3 hour layover and it assumes that the business traveller is only going to one place - then home again. That surely
138 Jacobin777 : True, but I think Slz396's comment might be open to some misinterpretation.....EK does have empty flights as well. ..I cut this one quite short, what
139 Rwy04LGA : What time does the A380 arrive at JFK on the 1st?
140 Post contains links Okapi : JFKTower website information here http://www.jfktower.com/jfktwr/viewt...d=ade1076505633d7c64438af653a3c013
141 Astuteman : If you meant 10 000 miles, I've got to ask which 787 or A350 you think flies 10 000 miles. Their ranges are generally little different to the A380 or
142 Lightsaber : Jacobin777, what a post! Oh... I do. Several of us trade IM's on what we think the improvements can do for the A388's/A389's range. I would point out
143 Gemuser : That's your opinion, fair enough. I happen to think they can do it. The main reason that I think that their hub will work is two fold. One reason is
144 TN757Flyer : I was referring to the eventuality that those a/c will have models (as hinted by both A and B) that will in fact fly 10,000 miles nonstop. The genera
145 Astuteman : I suppose that makes it a bit ironic that the only airliner which virtually has 10 000Nm range built into its fundamental design from the outset is t
146 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : LoL..thanks friend... ...while the potential improvements of the A389 to the A388 is unquestionable, I wonder what the true market of the A389 would
147 EXAAUADL : Most of those wont mean anything other than the lower fare. The last one certainly is false since I dont expect there will be a choice of departrues
148 Astuteman : Big enough to justify, I hope. It would be sad not to see this incredible beast.. Gotta agree I would have complimented this er, "volume" too, but yo
149 TN757Flyer : Really? Hmm, must've missed that. I haven't seen any specs that show a fully loaded 380 will approach anything near 10,000 miles nonstop. I am not ta
150 Moo : Currently it won't, however the current airframe does not have a central wingbox fuel tank - all the fuel is in the wings. The A380-800R will probabl
151 Astuteman : The point is what you missed. With T900's and GP7000 certified to 20% more than the current plane's thrust, and with a wing and landing gear designed
152 Jacobin777 : ....lets hope...it would be an amazing plane to see.. ..... I think Astuteman's dream would be to see a B748I/A388/A389 all lined up ready to roll...
153 TN757Flyer : Actually, I did get your point, but your own comment here makes your argument a moot point in this discussion. No current manufacturer can produce su
154 Astuteman : In which case, my apologies. However, I've seen no statement from either Boeing OR Airbus to the effect that they intend to produce a 10 000Nm+ versi
155 MAH4546 : I'm curious to see if they develop a U.S.-Europe network. JFK-HAM might have flopped, but I don't think we've seen the last of Emirates on US-Europe r
156 DUALRATED : I can't even see 100 A380's worldwide no less at EK. The future is twin engine. VLA's are a novelty. and as someone said earlier EK is having a hard t
157 David_itl : So you're expecting around 90 to 100 A380 cancellations. Let's have a list of the airlines you believe will cancel. Can we have a list of the routes
158 Post contains links Thorben : I know I'll be flamed for using wikipedia as a source, but it seems to me that somebody just typed in what EK published in their yearly reports. It ca
159 Art : The 747 is not much smaller than the A380 and it's been around for many decades. Sold a few copies, too. LAXDESI can probably give persuasive data to
160 ER757 : These are certainly valid concerns, but even if a terrorist event or a war with Iran were to happen, these would be short-term situations (even a war
161 AirNZ : And as several other's have pointed out.....that original 'comment' was wrong, but yet you conveniently ignore that bit. So, are you saying the 748 i
162 DUALRATED : Yes I am fully aware what the 747 has accomplished, however in my statement I do believe I used the word future. It seemed very wrong when I read it,
163 PVG : Thank you!
164 AirNZ : I understand what you're trying to say, but that's not what you said originally. If you say a VLA is a 'novelty' then it makes no difference whether
165 Mariner : And you think Emirates is unaware of this? That they are not planning for a future that incorporates this? mariner
166 ORDagent : EK is an effort to diversify away from oil. Come to Chicago. We have a massive Indian / Pakistani communities here. Certain ethnic groups are in grea
167 PVG : Noted. Yes, Australia may be a special case in that because of geography and current technological limitations their ability to offer 1-stop connecti
168 DUALRATED : That may very well be, my comment on the VLA market is just my opinion. Thats all. I would never compare any airliner to Concorde when it comes to te
169 Stitch : The A380 will certainly not sink Airbus, since effectively all the costs have already been spent and Airbus is still alive and well. I do agree we'll
170 Ncfc99 : This is a serious question.Why do you think the case for a VLA will get worse? I think it will get better in the future, but like you, that is only m
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