Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4444 posts, RR: 43 Posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15862 times:
Air France has surprisingly announced that it will be suspending all nonstop flights from its CDG-Paris hub to IKA-Tehran effective Oct 26th 2008. AF cites the low yield that was being witnessed on this route as the main reason for the closure. However, to compensate for its suspension, it will make KLM increase flights on the AMS-IKA sector from 4 to 5 weekly nonstop flights. Besides suspending IKA, the French carrier has announced further changes to its long haul network for Winter 08-09. The main highlights are as follows:
ORD - capacity reduced to 5 weekly A 332s + 2 weekly A 343s.
YUL - eff Feb 09, capacity reduced to daily B 744 + daily B 773ER.
HAV - frequencies increased from 5 weekly to daily flights using a B 744.
NRT - capacity reduced to 6 weekly A 332 + 6 weekly B 773ER + daily B 772ER.
PEK - reduced from double daily to 10 weekly B 773ERs.
MRU - frequencies increased from 4 weekly to daily B 744s.
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15858 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter): Air France has surprisingly announced that it will be suspending all nonstop flights from its CDG-Paris hub to IKA-Tehran effective Oct 26th 2008.
Nutjob isnt doing a very good job with the economy over there, so this isnt surprising
Quoting Behramjee (Thread starter): YUL - eff Feb 09, capacity reduced to daily B 744 + daily B 773ER
how much was original capacity? a 773 + 744 is a lot for winter.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15308 times:
Does IranAir fly to CDG? That might pick up some of the slack...
What other European airlines fly into IKA? In addition to KLM (SkyTeam), could one fly MEA via Beirut to make a connection?
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MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15730 posts, RR: 48 Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15261 times:
Quoting MCOGVADCA (Reply 4): That really is shocking given the number of Persians residing in France, and the Iranian fascination with France.
I figured it did a lot better. Guess not. I'm surprised they went from an 343 down to zero, rather than maybe to a 332 or even 321/320/319.
Bwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 675 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15105 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6): What other European airlines fly into IKA? In addition to KLM (SkyTeam), could one fly MEA via Beirut to make a connection?
bmi operate A321 flights to IKA from LHR in Star Alliance
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4444 posts, RR: 43 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14942 times:
Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 5): thats nearly 3x daily to Tokyo...hell of a lot, no?
Lots of J/F class fly AF via CDG to North/Western Africa and Western Europe/UK hence.
Its vvv popular out of NRT especially with JAL being a close partner of theirs.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7): I figured it did a lot better. Guess not. I'm surprised they went from an 343 down to zero, rather than maybe to a 332 or even 321/320/319.
Yield probably has to do a lot with it...low season Q class fare YYZ/YUL-IKA-YUL/YYZ was CAD 690 + $ 310 taxes!!!!
It will be interesting to see if their LAX Y class loads drop as a result of Tehran being suspended. LH and BMI must be loving this move of AF
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15730 posts, RR: 48 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14676 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10): A lot of people are still thinking "AF".You must now think AF-KL :
I know, but I thought the Paris-Iran market was pretty sizeable.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14656 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12): I know, but I thought the Paris-Iran market was pretty sizeable.
= Ya. I was thinking the same thing (oh God, we are agreeing). I thought Paris - Iran and Paris - Lebanon were solid markets. I love how AF "gives" routes to KL.
Misbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14360 times:
Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 5): thats nearly 3x daily to Tokyo...hell of a lot, no?
It is a lot - at least compared with service to other European cities. Plus AF also have KIX and codeshare with JL to NGO. That's a lot of capacity to Japan. AF seem to do pretty well all over Asia. Unlike that airline across the channel
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13): Ya. I was thinking the same thing (oh God, we are agreeing). I thought Paris - Iran and Paris - Lebanon were solid markets. I love how AF "gives" routes to KL
Hey! LH does the same with LX. Of course, LH also like to 'take' the nice ones that make a lot of $$$
Megaptera From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12650 times:
Yes, bmi have a daily A321 to IKA from LHR. All the European aircrews that fly to Tehran (bmi, Air France, Lufthansa, KLM and Alitalia) stay in the same hotel, but unfortunately on segregated floors...
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2273 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11923 times:
Quoting Mastermis (Reply 2): Unless I am mistaken, AF has 3 daily CGD-YUL flights.
Currently yes they do with the different equipment from 772, 773, 744, and A332
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2214 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11134 times:
Is AF saying the Tehran-Amsterdam has better traffic or a higher yield? For that matter could there be a more political than economic reason for this?
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
ArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3362 posts, RR: 16 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10534 times:
Quoting Megaptera (Reply 15): Yes, bmi have a daily A321 to IKA from LHR. All the European aircrews that fly to Tehran (bmi, Air France, Lufthansa, KLM and Alitalia) stay in the same hotel, but unfortunately on segregated floors... frown
What would be their reasoning behind that? Other than their love of taking the fun out of life of pretty much everything.
HomaDreaming From United States of America, joined May 2008, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10359 times:
While Paris Iran market is decent its nothing like the US- Iran Market with over 1.5 million Iranians living in the states and no direct flights...European carriers have been picking up the weight with connections through their European hubs...I would see a few reasons why AF would have low Yields...and did what they did...
1)Political instability in Iran obviously has dampened many Iranians living abroad from visiting Iran...
2) The US economy is down, Iranian/Americans arent visiting Iran in numbers like before, they probably need to pay their mortgages and fill their tanks like everybody else who lives here, not to mention Iran isnt a cheap country to fly to or spend time in...
3) Many Iranians live in LA area (over 500000) AF will not be able to compete with Emirates when they start their direct LA flights, specially since you can fly to almost any major Iranian city from Dubai with hundreds of flights and high frequency...why fly to Tehran when you need to go to Shiraz!!? or Mashad! connecting between IKA and THR is horrible and consumes so much time!
4)The Iranians in the East coast US can easily connect through Dubai and Amsterdam and potentially avoid Paris or London. NWA and KLM got that covered very well...
5)the France-Iran Market is sizable but not huge...no where near some other Middle eastern states-France...Iran Air still flies to Paris, not to mention they do code share with AF.
6)Iranian Citizens in Iran rather vacation in the Persian gulf (Dubai) and have had a new found love affair for places like Thailand and anything East...Getting a visa for them to visit EU or US is almost impossible, time consuming...
That leaves AF with low yields...no reason to keep it going in these conditions...Expect more cuts by other European Carriers...
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7313 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10308 times:
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 19): Does that mean AF will fly 3 daily until Feb 09?
The 3 x Daily CDG-YUL-CDG will operate until Oct 25th.
AF348/349 will cease operating starting Oct 26th.
After this date will remain only AF344/AF345 (A343) & AF346/AF347 (B77W).
Starting Feb.2009, the A343 will be replaced by a B744 on AF344/AF345
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15730 posts, RR: 48 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9706 times:
Quoting M404 (Reply 17): Is AF saying the Tehran-Amsterdam has better traffic or a higher yield?
Most of the connecting traffic (ie LAX/YUL/YYZ/SFO/NYC) appears to go on KL anyway
E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Airxliban: There is no flight on ME to Tehran. MEA used to fly BEY-THR, but I believe that they pulled out of in 2001 or early 2002. I don't believe that IR ope
26 FlySSC: It is. But most if he "point to point" services for the france-Iran market is operated by IR to/from ORY. on AF flights, around 90% of the passengers
27 AirxLiban: Ah yes! Thanks for mentioning, I remember when they announced that flight but it subsequently slipped my mind.
28 HT: LH daily A343 from FRA The following have 4 to 7 flights per week each in September:: OS from VIE KL from AMS TK from IST AZ from FCO Sparsely: TK fr
29 Humberside: Theres also Pegasus (on a scheduled basis) from Istanbul Sabhia Gocken
30 Viscount724: Can you give me an example? I can't actually think of any such route transfers between LH and LX but I might be overlooking something.
31 LH600: wait weren't they trying to start flying to Kish Island as well?? this doesn't make sense. Is this just a seasonal thing?? I loved flying AF to Tehran
32 BrightCedars: You'll have to do a search but I think there is something in the Latin American routes (SCL?).
33 BrightCedars: Guess if most of the market is USA-CDG-IKA then it's not much of a problem for AFKL to put these passengers on USA-AMS-IKA. The result is the same. Co
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