I just don't get this one. Is it really necessary?
From what I know, Moslems pray five times a day facing Mecca, but they are excused from this duty if they are traveling. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I know some other airlines also points which way Mecca is during flights to help the pax. In the past I have seen pax praying in their seats on TK, but this is a bit too much. Is it even safe?
I know we are talking about Iran Air, but what does this mean? If it is time for praying will there be a line in front of the room? If one is Iranian but doesn't pray, any reprimands?
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 29569 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19950 times:
IR is an Islamic airline so it is only right that they offer this. I'm sure it is well used . When I flew IR LHR-THR I saw people going to pray. It didnt cause any discruption to anyone. Now if they put one on BA then I would say ripp it out but when in Rome ....
What is there to get about it?
Sorry, "but this is a bit too much" from you is relative to what exactly?
It may not be deemed necessary to you perhaps, but it no doubt is important to others who wish to avail of it and with all due respect, it is really none of your concern. Why are you even questioning it?
UAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19814 times:
As said earlier it is up to you whether you will pray or not, but nowadays it is better to pray on your seat due to the safety aspects and other reasons. You can't pray while plane in a rough condition, but easily done while you are seated with your seat-belt fastened.
In Islam the prayers is reduced by half during your trip, you can pray two prayers at once.
for instance i my self, on a recent flight to LHR, prayed before i board and the second prayer time came while the aircraft still in the air. I didn't pray on my seat or any where else, i did when i reached my hotel room. The thing is so flexible, people do whatever they want.
And the picture you are asking about for the Iranian boeing, i think it is their issue and we shouldn't discuss it here or any where else. it is a private issue that we have to respect and accept if we want to fly with them.
ADRIANGALT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19779 times:
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 7): And the picture you are asking about for the Iranian boeing, i think it is their issue and we shouldn't discuss it here or any where else. it is a private issue that we have to respect and accept if we want to fly with them.
Probably just as safe as the EK showers during flights. We may not find it necessary since it seems strange but i guess it is important to them and it's a nice amenity i guess. Kind of like US airlines offering AVOD the Middle Eastern airlines offer prayer rooms
It might not be absolutely necessary, but for those choosing to strictly practice their religious beliefs, the "pray room" affords some level of privacy so the occupant would not have to worry about an ignorant, western, non-Muslim passenger suddenly pointing and yelling "Oh my God, he's praying to Allah! He must be a terrorist!
Believe it or not, there are some people that actually think such nonsense!
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7013 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19536 times:
This is the sort of decision the market can make with great success.
If the customers are sufficiently motivated to pray that they will pay enough extra to fly an airline with a prayer room to make the return on the prayer room higher than the return on the six or so seats that it displaces, then the airline should install the prayer room.
The decision shouldn't (and likely doesn't) turn on anyone's particular ideological or religious views.
EA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19469 times:
When will we see places for a Christian to kneel and pray? If we did, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps AZ should install something for Catholics to pray on?? It's kind of like some Islamic organizations over here wanting to have state-paid for rugs and areas at colleges for Muslims to pray throughout the day...but as long as you can accommodate each person, then it's not a problem. For the record, I think having a place for Muslims to pray on an airline centered in the Islamic world is completely normal I would think.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
Since we are here at a public discussion forum about civil aviation this is all we do. We question everything, NW DC9s, unclean AF planes, EK showers, mergers and yes, this.
Quoting BrettFromCLT (Reply 6): Whether it's necessary or not, logistically, how would it work?
Actually that is one of the issues I was trying to get at. If the praying mat was on some kind of a gyro and kept pointing always the right direction it might be more useful.
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 7): In Islam the prayers is reduced by half during your trip, you can pray two prayers at once.
Thanks for the info, I stand corrected. So, on a longer flight like THR-CCS, this room gets used more, since you can't wait till the end of the trip to make up for the missed prayers, correct?
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 7): i think it is their issue and we shouldn't discuss it here or any where else. it is a private issue that we have to respect and accept if we want to fly with them.
I didn't realize that discussing a separate prayer room space on an Iran Air Boeing 747SP is sacrilegious. I think we can discuss it just as we can discuss EK showers or A380 staircases. This is not about peoples religious views, it is about space usage on a 747.
Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 10): It might not be absolutely necessary, but for those choosing to strictly practice their religious beliefs, the "pray room" affords some level of privacy so the occupant would not have to worry about an ignorant, western, non-Muslim passenger suddenly pointing and yelling "Oh my God, he's praying to Allah! He must be a terrorist!
I doubt that it will happen on this IR plane. I imagine if not all most of their pax are Moslem, and they will understand what is going on.
Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 12): This is the sort of decision the market can make with great success.
In IR's case, government owned and an islamic state, it is easier to make that decision. What other airlines, or markets can you see?
AirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 19013 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 15): Since we are here at a public discussion forum about civil aviation this is all we do. We question everything, NW DC9s, unclean AF planes, EK showers, mergers and yes, this.
Well yes, of course. But this particular subject is entirely religious and therefore could be touchy......very easy to offend and, to be absolutely honest, the inference I got from your post was that you were and you did clearly voice your opinion that you thought this was going too far. I wasn't disputing you right to question anything, but more why you were. In my opinion it's a subject that should have been left alone and, irrespective of it being on an aircraft, is not really a subject for a.net
Quoting TK787 (Reply 15): I didn't realize that discussing a separate prayer room space on an Iran Air Boeing 747SP is sacrilegious. I think we can discuss it just as we can discuss EK showers or A380 staircases. This is not about peoples religious views, it is about space usage on a 747.
As outlined above, I would tend to disagree and as much as I find that unfortunate. I don't see the issue as being necessarily sacrilegious but, with all due respect, it won't be discussed in the same vein as mere EK showers or A380 staircases! It actually is very much is about people's religious views. In your thread opener you already stated you thought it was going too far.......that is questioning/disagreeing with people's religion and it's irrelevant whether you agree/disagree with whatever religion, you don't have the right to openly question it.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 15): I doubt that it will happen on this IR plane. I imagine if not all most of their pax are Moslem, and they will understand what is going on.
Not necessarily at all, and it must be remembered that the whole world is not paranoid about Muslim's. Many non-muslim's will readily fly Iran Air and I would certainly do so myself if the occasion arose. Sure most will understand, but it's the few who don't (inc some here) whose ignorance usually causes the problems.
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 13): When will we see places for a Christian to kneel and pray? If we did, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem
But that's a completely different thing altogether and indeed would, as such, be unnecessary......based entirely, and only on the fact that 'ritual' type prayer is neither a requirement, or time-specific element, of practicing the Christian religion.
Fanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 18577 times:
I find the picture very interesting, as it reflects the culture of the airline's country and religion. To me, such amenities, including special food and in-flight music make flying on aircraft from nations other nations an enjoyable and educational experience. I'm glad not all airlines are the same, just as I relish cultural differences among people around the world. The prayer room is important to most of the people who fly aboard this aircraft.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
When traveling for less then 10 days we can only have to do half of the 4 rakats prayers (2 rakats). Rakats are different parts. We are not exempt from prayer unless you are physically unable. When traveling for more then 10 days we must pray all rakats.
DUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 18167 times:
If one has ever been on an ELAL flight the ultra religious passengers will congregate in the rear of the aircraft for morning and evening prayers. I have even seen a lone individual look out the rear door window to see where the sun was so when the time came for prayers he would let everyone know.
Now with that said, one might find it strange for someone to be hanging out by the aircraft door during flight, or to see at least thirteen men go to the rear of the aircraft all at once, but thats what makes it all so interesting.
So 3 of the prayers that are 4 rakats go down to 2 during travel. UAEflyer on reply 7 said that he can combine some of them at the end of his day trip. Is this a common practice? How about performing while sitting, is that allowed? And how one can deal with the direction of the plane?
Thanks for all your input.
Aviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17252 times:
Several carriers outfit their planes with prayer rooms/areas and have done so for many years.
I don't understand what the fuss is about. It may be true that Muslims (those who actually *do* take the efforts to pray five times daily) are exempt from having to pray while traveling, but that doesn't mean they can't take the opportunity if it happens to be provided. And as Argonaut points out, in his post above, why should an airline not attempt to please its customers with this opportunity? To bring up safety concerns is a stretch at best.
FWIW, below are a couple of articles I did about airlines and religion:
Iran has a very large and fairly sophisticated middle class, and I would presume, despite the impressions that we are often fed by certain American media, that a healthy percentage of the population is secular in its lifestyle and habits. Say what you want of the mullahs in Tehran, but nobody will be forced to pray on a commercial flight -- on Iran Air or any other carrier based in a Muslim country.
[Edited 2008-07-31 19:06:13]
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
: It's not just El Al... any flight to Israel that covers the majority, if not all, of the time span for a specific prayer service. That said, as I rec
: There is a place an time for prayer in a 24 hr day. For safety reasons it should be one when they are off the aircraft due to turbulance, Emergencies
: I dont see whats the big deal! Its safer than the crew potentially not being able to remove religious passengers from praying in the aisles or by exit
: Once again another ignorant and offensive one... I gather from where you come from, you are not exposed to a lot of what is going on in the world so l
: Actually Muslims do have to pray even when traveling, however Muslims are allowed to shorten the prayers quite substantially (as well as group prayer
: There is typically a display with an arrow showing the direction of Mecca. Then I guess the person wishing to pray moves the mat and kneels in the co
: Nope, totally unnecessary and unsafe... Indeed there are shortened versions for those traveling and they don't have to do it while moving, that's one
: I had the pleasure of flying domestic in Pakistan . KHI/LHE in the early 90s. I was in F and the bus was a bit early. When I entered the front cabin,
: As already pointed out, Saudi Airlines (as well as others) also has prayer rooms on board their widebody fleet (747/777), and I dare say they are bigg
: AFAIK it is 3+2,, where did you get the other 3 from
: When I saw the title and the first post in this thread, I was worried about the flame war and the bashing I would be reading as I scrolled down. Well
: Yes and i dont believe it was meant in any bad way either. People were quick to make their own judgements. Give the guy some slack. Very true. An Ira
: SV 777's have big prayer rooms at the back near the galley taking up the centre rows. You can get 6-8 praying pax in there at least. The inflight ente
: No, and like yourself, I don't believe it was meant in a 'bad' way at all either, although I do feel that perhaps it could have been phrased/asked sl
: Christians aren't required by their religious beliefs to pray as often as Muslims. And Christian prayer can often be done silently, wherever you are.
: SV introduced them on their newer planes. I think it's a good idea. Hitherto, you used to see people pitching up their mat and praying at the emergenc
: Its 3 Fard (Mahgrib), 2 Fard (Isha), 3 Witr (Isha)-many people however won't read the 3 Witr as its Wajib and not fard......however, if on can read t
: Thanks everyone for all the input. I guess my questions could have been worded differently; and I had no intentions of offending anyone. I still find
: Yeah dont worry most people and some that didnt post knew you didnt mean anything bad. Glad the thread was set up plus nice to see a pic of the Praye
: It's up to common sense. Some people may want to obey to have ablutions during their pray and that would be one hell of a mess in the lavatory. Such
: Yes they do, when I flew on SV 747s, they had one in the back of the plane, Also had a compass on the ceiling for Mecca in parts of the plane. The pr
: A muslim is NOT required to fast while in the process of traveling, your chances of starving or being thirsty is much higher on lets say US airways..
: I flew London-Penang-Kuala Lumpur-Sydney on MH and they had prayer rooms. The IFE showed a little compass so people knew which way Mecca was.. I don't
: Not trying to be PC but "Moslem" is an outdated word and you'll find that a few people are offended by this particular spelling (it is also pronounce
: Pray give an alternative word then. "Followers of Islam" is so cumbersome.
: "Muslim." While the English usage of the two words is basically interchangeable, the Arabic roots of the two words (as pronounced by most English spe