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ATA's 753's  
User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9925 times:

I check airfleets and the threads, anyone know where the 7 or so 753's had at shutdown going to? NW/DL seems to like their CASM

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6489 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9907 times:



Quoting GEG2RAP (Thread starter):
I check airfleets and the threads, anyone know where the 7 or so 753's had at shutdown going to? NW/DL seems to like their CASM

DL/NW won't pick them up as they are RR-powered. CO seems to be more likely.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

And it is not one of those things that happens overnight. Not in BK. It can take quite a while to sort everything out. ATA only just recently had a fire sale of their office equipment and such, so things like jets with various loans and leases involved are probably going to be more complicated.

But in the long run, expect CO to take them.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9837 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But in the long run, expect CO to take them.

I read on here recently that CO was also picking up DE's 753s as well. CO must be really happy with the 753. I wonder if once they winglet the 753 and they briing on a dozen or so more form ATA/DE, they send them down to Latin America for expansion.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9726 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 3):
CO must be really happy with the 753.

They love it. Especially in today's ridiculous fuel environment. It's my opinion that the 753 would've seen a whole heck of a lot more orders if airlines knew where fuel was going to go, but alas, it was not to be.  Sad I hope CO snags all the RR-powered 753s they can get their hands on - they work very well for them.


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9720 times:



Quoting GEG2RAP (Thread starter):
I check airfleets and the threads, anyone know where the 7 or so 753's had at shutdown going to? NW/DL seems to like their CASM

ATA had 12 757-300s, CO picked up 8 in 2004. There are four sitting in Victorville.

NW is the only operator of the Pratt powered 757-300, all other 757-300s are RR powered.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9647 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 3):
I read on here recently that CO was also picking up DE's 753s as well. CO must be really happy with the 753.

It's a low CASM capacity expansion/shift that would allow them to jettison more 733s.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
ATA had 12 757-300s, CO picked up 8 in 2004. There are four sitting in Victorville.

I should drive over and visit them. They must be lonely.  Smile



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9622 times:

don't rule out that these a/c can't make their way to DL. They are alot less fixated with engine commonality than other carriers. The question is do they want 7 more 753s. Me thinks the economics compared to domestic 20 year old 763s would be very favorable.

User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9602 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
don't rule out that these a/c can't make their way to DL. They are alot less fixated with engine commonality than other carriers. The question is do they want 7 more 753s. Me thinks the economics compared to domestic 20 year old 763s would be very favorable.

What seven 757-300s?.. There are four, not to jump to that other discussion about DL's "fleet planning" but to acquire four aircraft that have different engines than the other 200+ 757s DL and NWA combined operate is ludicrous.

DL/NWA would have a fleet of 206 Pratt powered 757s, and four RR powered?.. What a waste.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6489 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9586 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
don't rule out that these a/c can't make their way to DL. They are alot less fixated with engine commonality than other carriers. The question is do they want 7 more 753s. Me thinks the economics compared to domestic 20 year old 763s would be very favorable.

However, would it really be feasible to operate a fleet of only seven RR-powered 753s, vs. DL/NW's massive combined P&W-powered fleet of 752s and 753s? If either DL or NW already had some RR-powered 757s in their fleets, then maybe it would make sense, however, it doesn't seem very economical to operate a fleet of 203 P&W-powered 757s and only 7 RR-powered ones.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9581 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
However, would it really be feasible to operate a fleet of only seven RR-powered 753s

Four, there are only four making it even more unrealistic.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9534 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
And it is not one of those things that happens overnight. Not in BK. It can take quite a while to sort everything out. ATA only just recently had a fire sale of their office equipment and such, so things like jets with various loans and leases involved are probably going to be more complicated.

But in the long run, expect CO to take them.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 3):
I read on here recently that CO was also picking up DE's 753s as well. CO must be really happy with the 753. I wonder if once they winglet the 753 and they briing on a dozen or so more form ATA/DE, they send them down to Latin America for expansion.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
There are four sitting in Victorville.

The 4 aircraft left in the fleet (N550, 552, 560, 561TZ) where all leased from Boeing Capital Corp. (BCC). These aircraft were returned to them and ferried to VCV within days of the Apr. 3 bankruptcy and shutdown. They have remained there ever since and are still listed for sale/lease by BCC on their website:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...ex.cfm?content=include/reports.cfm

There has been no indication that CO has been interested in these or DE's. With airlines shrinking by nearly 100 aircraft or more, there will be no expansion for quite some time. Everyone is reducing capacity, not adding it and 753s are used almost exclusively on low yield routes which are the first to get reduced in general. I only see additional aircraft as possibly to free up more 752s.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5027 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9508 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4):
They love it. Especially in today's ridiculous fuel environment. It's my opinion that the 753 would've seen a whole heck of a lot more orders if airlines knew where fuel was going to go, but alas, it was not to be. I hope CO snags all the RR-powered 753s they can get their hands on - they work very well for them.

They also look sexy as heck in CO colors! I could dream only to see Boeing bring back the 757! I agree, the 757-300 would be selling like hot cakes right now if they were still in production.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9207 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
ATA had 12 757-300s, CO picked up 8 in 2004. There are four sitting in Victorville.


I should drive over and visit them. They must be lonely.

They are sitting right up front on the ramp so you can get a very good look at them along with the Silverjet 762 that sits here along with the 2 Oasis 744's and a whole lot of other goodies out there. Also anyone interested in seeing an NWA 742 should come out to VCV as NW has been running charters (Military???) to and from VCV to HNL.

Regarding DL getting the 753's from ATA I highly doubt it as having all of the NW 753's with PW power and the TZ 753's with RR power (Only 4 aircraft as others have said and I have seen them in person almost daily) that DL would get the TZ aircraft, with CO getting them it's possible but as others also said with things going rough right now I don't unfortunately see them leaving VCV anytime soon. Oh well at least I get to see them still and remember the great experience I had on a TZ L10 about 10 years ago going to HNL. Oh and the TZ 3 L1011's are here too but kind of hard to see.

FX1816


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9132 times:



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 11):
With airlines shrinking by nearly 100 aircraft or more

What 'airlines' are doing is not important. Only what one airline, CO, is doing. And they are not shrinking by 100 aircraft. They are retiring smaller planes and replacing them with slightly fewer larger planes, but overall, are not decreasing capacity at all.

Which is why I said that the 753s would allow CO to retire more 733s. 4 753s should allow them to retire 7-8 733s.

CO is completely filling up 753s on routes like IAH-LAX. They could easily use more. Just because they are sitting in VCV and still listed as for sale does not mean that CO isn't talking about acquiring them. But with so little interest from other carriers, there would be no hurry.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9088 times:

Of course CO will take them, CO is a very healthy airline right now with plenty of uses for the most fuel efficient 220-seat airplane ever invented. The 753 is just what the Dr ordered when fuel gets so expensive. CO is well able to buy them today and use them profitably. My guess is Boeing knows this, and is driving a hard bargain / perhaps dangling them alterior purpose.... you never know with Boeing and one of its BFF airlines such as CO. There is love but also greed.

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10705 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Those overly long thin sticks are, together with the 773, certainly not among the prettier aicraft Boeing built. I´m glad they stopped building this unsuccessful type.
As they are fuelefficient I think they find a buyer one day, and actually am surprised they haven´t sold them yet. Seems its due to the very limited number of possible clients. I also thought of CO first, but wouldn´t it be a suitable aircraft for a moderately sized Russian charter carrier as well?


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8768 times:



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 11):
There has been no indication that CO has been interested in these

CO will take them. Probably early next year in time for the summer season. They don't need them for the winter. One of them may be the testbed for winglet certification.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8697 times:

I was fortunate to fly on one of TZ's B753's... yes .....great plane...


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jacobin777




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8663 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 3):


Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But in the long run, expect CO to take them.

I read on here recently that CO was also picking up DE's 753s as well. CO must be really happy with the 753. I wonder if once they winglet the 753 and they briing on a dozen or so more form ATA/DE, they send them down to Latin America for expansion.

Really can you give me a link ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8593 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
Really can you give me a link ?

I also haven't heard about this. I'd appreciate a source, too.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8210 times:

To bad ATA had the RR engines. I could see DL/NW picking these planes up and using them on trans-atlantic or west coast to Hawaii flights.

Chuck


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8102 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 3):
I wonder if once they winglet the 753

The 753 can't get winglets.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7907 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 30):
The 753 can't get winglets.

APB is developing them. One of their recent press releases on the 763ER winglets indicated as such and they have had discussions with CO, NW, and TZ over the past year about it.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

I know this has been asked a hundred times.. but in this case I'm curious in light of this discussion about delta/nw.. could these birds be re-engined reasonably? maybe this is more a tech-ops question but I've always been curious about that...

25 EA772LR : Sure. Technically anything can be re-engined. Take a look at the A340s and 747s that test various sized engines. But it costs a lot of money, plus th
26 TZTriStar500 : Anything can be done with time and money, but it would not be economically feasible to re-engine these 4 to Pratt power. The ROI would just not be ju
27 Nycbjr : wow ok thats what I needed to see.. I suppose with the 787 this kind of thing is being built into the certification.. thanks for the info guys!
28 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : A few 747s were re-engined from P&W to GE. This is one of them. It was written off in a landing overrun at DUS in January 2005. P&W Same aircraft wit
29 AAH732UAL : Heck the first 777 that was beat to hell along with the UA ones where PWs. Then it sat around for a few years and Boeing put it on the market, CX in-
30 MMEPHX : what range could a winglet equipped 753 achieve? could TATL be a viable option?
31 MCOflyer : These a/c have done TATL flights and Trans Pacific before so it is possible. Hunter
32 Gilesdavies : True, but due to the limited range of the 757-300 they are extremely limited to routes like SNN to BOS. The only time ATA was using them accross the
33 1337Delta764 : I actually find it quite strange that APB would develop winglets for the 757-300 before the 767-200ER. I think CO would like a winglet option for the
34 Flighty : The 753 winglets just pay for themselves by saving fuel. Simple as that. As far as I know. Nobody would need more range out of them. Since NW/DL and C
35 DeltaL1011man : No you can rule it out. DL doesn't or never has had only 4 a/c with one type. They had the 741s and look how fast they went.
36 Viscount724 : It may not be cost-effective to do the work to certify them for the 767-200ERs since there are so few that would be likely candidates for winglets. O
37 SeaBosDca : In the current environment, 762ER operators of the sort that can afford the capital costs of winglets may not be 762ER operators much longer. I think
38 LN-MOW : Don't count on it. Most 762's are older and some are already retired. CO's are the exception, but the low number of frames makes this unlikely. But s
39 SeaBosDca : At least as of now, that airplane, should it be built, will have the raked wingtips of the 764ER.
40 LN-MOW : Thank you for clarifying. In that case, the chances of seeing winglets on a 762 dropped significantly ...
41 Flighty : Well, the 753 does not have many frames either. The 762 has 2 uses, as a freighter or a long-thin passenger jet. Will some remain in service with CO
42 SeaBosDca : True, but the 753s are practically guaranteed to stay in service for many more years, making winglets a much more sensible investment than they are f
43 Flighty : Right, did notice that.... Hmmmmmm Also decreases the usable MTOW, doesn't it... maybe I am in for disappointment after all...
44 Ikramerica : But the odds of raked wingtip modifications went up!
45 CALPSAFltSkeds : CO can utilize these 753 aircraft on an almost 1 for two removal of 733 aircraft from the fleet. CO has many quasi-monopoly hub routes where 753's can
46 SeaBosDca : Sounds to me like a good reason to get 4 more lonely 757-33Ns. Have you heard anything to confirm or deny the vague rumors floating around here that
47 TZTriStar500 : I have no confirmation, but this seems very logical. From last year, CO was pushing for the 753 winglets. Now that the 4th qtr will have significant
48 CLE757 : Has Continental said anything recently about getting these 757's?
49 TZTriStar500 : Nothing public and they've been available for 4 months now.
50 IFlyATA : Not quite, they were used frequently for private (commercial) charters -- one that I remember in particular was a SAV-MME flight in a 757-300, just o
51 TZTriStar500 : If I am not mistaken, I recall an empty ferry flight of a 753 last year that we made between OAK or SFO and LIN.
52 Jlbmedia : Why wouldn't they just lease one of the former TZ 753s sitting un-used for the certification program. Boeing would get income from a short lease, and
53 EA772LR : Anyone know anything about the RB211-535E4C that TZ used on their 753s?? What is the difference between that and the RB211-535E4B like on CO's 753s??
54 Jlbmedia : Why wouldn't they just lease one of the former TZ 753s sitting un-used for the certification program. Boeing would get income from a short lease, and
55 MCOflyer : I agree that CO will snatch them in due time. I have flown in 2 of the ex TZ planes CO picked up and can attest that were in immaculate condition. Now
56 TZTriStar500 : Yes, it had a higher thrust rating specifically for TZ MDW ops at full gross weight. However, after the MDW ops was reduced and the 753s no longer op
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