APYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 805 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 32135 times:
From Press Release
We have ordered six Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, and placed options for four more. The B777-300ER is 23 per cent more fuel efficient than the Boeing 747. The aircraft will give us greater flexibility in the longhaul fleet following delays to our Boeing 787 deliveries. We ordered 24 B787s and 12 Airbus A380s, for delivery between 2010 and 2014, to replace some of our oldest aircraft and expand our fleet
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1381 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 31984 times:
Well, at last! This is one order we've expected for years... So, Boeing is probably taking Airbus' path in offering discounted airplanes to avoid paying compensation in cash (and buying something like, say, some A350-1000's or so with it )
It's certainly gonna be one of the better looking 77W's around! Any news when they will be delivered? I wonder if they will be used to replace some of their 747's as well... 23% more fuel efficient, wow.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21310 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 31895 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 4): Whats odd is only 6 for an airline the size of BA. No doubt more to follow I guess.
Well, they will have some A380s to replace 744s (1 for 1, increase in capacity), and some 77Ws to replace 744s (1 for 1, decrease in capacity) and some 787s to replace 744s (2 for 1, increase in frequency). They can decide which options to exercise first based from those three orders based on how the market plays out, and that takes care of their oldest 30 744s. This also leaves room for any combination to replace the remaining 27 744s at a later time:
748s (roughly equal 1 for 1 replacement)
A389s (1 for 2 replacement, decrease in capacity and frequency)
A350-1000s (1 for 1 replacement, decrease in capacity)
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Slz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 31671 times:
Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 3): Boeing is probably taking Airbus' path in offering discounted airplanes to avoid paying compensation in cash.
I think it can indeed be assumed these 6 planes are compensation for the massive delays on the 787 and will allow BA to bridge the gap spanning many years between promised delivery dates and actual delivery dates of their 787s on order...
As such Boeing is trying to compensate in exactly the same way as Airbus did when they encountered delays on the A380, and as a manufacturer,this really is the best way to do it.
Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 3): It's certainly gonna be one of the better looking 77W's around
For us aviation fans, I definitely think so too, although for the ordinary observer, I don't think so really, because what's another 6 777s amid such a huge fleet already?
I think they will be delivered pretty soon, certainly not later than the first 787 was due.
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 4): Whats odd is only 6 for an airline the size of BA. No doubt more to follow I guess.
They take just 6, because they are interim lift.
As to your remark more are to follow, I wouldn't be too sure as it is interesting to see the low number of options BA secured, indicating BA clearly decided to keep this order for interim lift entirely apart from their RFP on the huge fleet replacement which is underway...
I can image Boeing will have done everything possible during the negotiations to inflate the number of options (and thus their chance to future add-on orders) so as to get some sort of foot between the door, but that clearly failed: BA just took the urgently needed 'free interim lift' and a minimal extra margin on top, meaning they clearly didn't want to limit their future choices by taking options on the 77W now, thus giving away their preference for their future fleet is likely elsewhere...
If you thus mean "2 to 4" with "more to follow", then yes I can agree with you, if you mean "15 to 20", then I wouldn't.
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1381 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 31583 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 7): Which may suggest the order is "interim" and related to the 787 delays. (I can hope...)
Don't rule out the A350-1000 yet!
It's not unlike last year, when they ordered some 772's first and decided later on their 'big' order for 787's and A380's. There will be another order from BA this year I assume, which could indeed include A350-1000's. But also more 77W's...
As for the "interim" part of this deal: I guess they will be as interim as the A330's which are ordered in mass numbers this and last year... Expect more to come...
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1381 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 31404 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8): They take just 6, because they are interim lift.
Don't think so, just as I don't think EK's 30 333's will be interim lift. Both the 333 and the 77W are very efficient aircraft, the 333 is one of the best for medium-haul, the 77W is unbeatable for long-haul, and will remain so till 2015 at least - like it or not. And even after EIS of the A350-1000, it will be a very popular airplane.
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8): I can image Boeing will have done everything possible during the negotiations to inflate the number of options
That doesn't make sense really. Options which are totally unsure to be converted only take up precious delivery slots.
Here we go again... When I said "discounted airplanes" , it doesn't mean free... Or even a minimal margin. I'm sure Boeing makes a healthy margin on the deal, just as Airbus didn't gave away A330's for free either. Let's not go into this again please.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 37 Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 31371 times:
Good news for BA and Boeing. BA gets their intermediate capacity delivered and Boeing sells (no doubt heavily discounted) some more B-77W's. Probably the best way to get out of a nasty situation for both companies. And the B-77W will look great in BA's colours!
Now I am wondering, can Boeing do such a deal with all the delayed customers who want to compensate the 787-delays? Are there so many B777's available for such a solution for multiple customers?
And will this order have consequences for the next expansion/replacement order BA is going to place? Interesting times, as so often is the case !
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6988 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 31260 times:
All this A330 and 77W orders really get annoying after a while I rather see some 747-8I, A340s or A380s being ordered. But I guess these are the days twin efficiency over quad elegancy
Anyway good news for Boeing and BA, took a long until BA jumped on the 77W wagon.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Hypersonic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 31886 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 7): Groan... (I hate this plane.)
And you regard yourself a lover of aviation!?? - well you must be to have wanted to be a member here? - If you truly were, you'd like 'every' plane, irrespective of who makes it, what it looks like, how large or small it is, what it's made of....
Personally, & I'm no Boeing Fanboy, the 777 in all its versions is a Gorgeous aircraft!
I don't know where you got the idea from that the A330 order from EK could be considered interim lift? The order for 30 A333 from EK is not an interim order, nor was it linked to any delays at Airbus, because EK and Airbus made up long time ago on that issue.
The massive A333 order from EK is the outcome of a previously announced RFP to replace their entire A332 fleet, an RFP in which EK was known to be comparing the A333 against the 787 and which the A330 clearly won.
As such I do not expect any 787 order from EK, because the plane just fully lost out.
Now, this small 77W order from BA is said to be interim lift by the airline itself and is clearly kept apart from their existing RFP on fleet renewal... As such, I wouldn't compare the 2 types of orders.
Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 15): Even after EIS of the A350-1000, the 77W will be a very popular airplane.
Don't forget the RFP from BA is aimed at the second half of next decade, meaning we're talking 2015 at best, with deliveries running till 2020.
From today's order, is seems to me like BA is convinced they will not order any 77Ws in December, which explains why they haven't bothered taking a considerable number of options even. I'd reckon Boeing would be more than willing to help BA on this, if not by signing a firm contract for 30 or so 77W right away, then at least in giving them the options for a few months (their RFP is known to come to an end in a few months).
But BA seems uninterested in any of those solutions and keeps looking elsewhere.
Could they still decide to order many more 77W in December after all? Sure, but it just seems like it is very unlikely, given the fact they did everything to keep this order as small as possible today (both in terms of firm as well as in terms of optioned planes) and explicitly mention in the press release it is just interim lift provided to them. Let's just say that right now, it looks like their hart is wanting to make them go another path than that of a 77W fleet for the future: is it the 748i (unlikely, given the negative comments from the BA CEO), more A380s, the A350-1000 or a combination of these? Time will tell...
Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 15): Options which are totally unsure to be converted only take up precious delivery slots
BA is said to come with their decision end of this year, so it is not like they would be optioning those slots for long.
25 Columba: What are the aircraft BA will replace next ? 1) The 737 classics will be replaced with A32x, but the A319 is much bigger as the 737-500 so might the r
26 AirbusA6: BA are unlikely to order a large number of the current 77W in their main order in December, as from the second half of the next decade, it will be out
27 Frigatebird: I don't, and I have no idea why you thought otherwise I haven't read that anywhere in their press release: http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bapre
28 PM: I'm sure you are right. Maybe "interim" is the wrong word. Might "marginal" be better? I think the argument is that BA seem not to have decided that
29 Slz396: I have assumed so, seeing you've put the EK A330 order and this BA 77W order in the same league, which obviously is not correct. I stand by the idea
30 PM: My apologies. I seem to have punched the wrong button. I was quoting (or trying to!) Frigatebird.
31 Frigatebird: Hehe, it was actually me who said that... If I lose the bet poor AirbusA6 would have to order the But otherwise, fully agree with your post
32 NA: I fully agree with you. What we need least, is another boring 773 order. A shame, they should have taken the 747-8I. The A380s ordered will replace t
33 Frigatebird: Maybe some, but certainly not all of BA's 772's. I think when BA will issue a separate RFP to replace their 772's in a few years time, and that's gon
34 AlanUK: I haven't heard about the 747 grounding, but the 737-500 at LGW are going this Winter I believe, and more 757s will go to OpenSkies. 767s will remain
35 PM: Rumour has it you may only have to wait a few months rather than years.
36 CHRISBA777ER: This was my understanding, yes. A350-10 and more A388s to follow by year end.
37 Astuteman: Happy day for this username, I'd have thought... Rgds
38 GCT64: Interestingly, the info I have is that only 2 of the 77Ws are purchased as 4 are going to be leased from GECAS. As I don't know the lease periods of
39 Frigatebird: Probably the reason why they can get the first ones as soon as 2010 I guess...
40 Stitch: Ah, so nice to see the "fans" come out and bash another order because it wasn't the one they expected from their manufacturer of choice... A 777-30
41 Astuteman: Although that said, it's a tad more sensible than an A330 serving as interim lift until an A388 can arrive - at least the 773ER can do pretty much mo
42 Jfk777: What took them so long. BA should have ordered 777-300ER's when Rod Eddington was CEO. I see the day when BA operates 30 of these beauties. On routes
43 BA777ER236: And for this one!!!! Long overdue IMHO though! Cheers
44 Brilondon: I don't think that you would commit this kind of money on an aircraft and add options as well if it were an "interim" order.
45 PM: That's a bit sour from you. Unusually so. I'd have thought the 777-300ER is closer to a 787 than an A321 is to an A380. And what else did Boeing have
46 PM: Well, if it wasn't I'd expect the order to be bigger than ... six.