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Queues And Delays Should Lead To Fines - UK  
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1726 times:

According to the British political party The Liberal Democrats, airlines should face a raft of new fines for delays - 95% of a passengers should pass through checkin within 15 minutes according to Environment spokesman Norman Baker.

Also he says that delays should not leave aircraft on the runway, or circling overhead adding emissions to the environment. Where exactly does he expect them to go?!

Oh joy, yet another assault on the airline industry in progress...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7536927.stm

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6039 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

If they want reduced delays, then they should pay a lot more for tickets.

And on that note, I should sue Disneyland because I have to wait over 45 minutes to go on a Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1695 times:



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
If they want reduced delays, then they should pay a lot more for tickets.

Sorry, you've lost there so you perhaps explain that? What correlation is there between the price of tickets and delays?

Quoting Moo (Thread starter):
Also he says that delays should not leave aircraft on the runway, or circling overhead adding emissions to the environment. Where exactly does he expect them to go?!

I can somewhat understand that, for known delays, aircraft should not remain queuing on taxiways for extended periods (I assume he meant taxiways as opposed to runways) but other than diverting I see see no alternative to them circling, and other than anticipated substantial delays I can't see diverting as being practical.


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1695 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
Sorry, you've lost there so you perhaps explain that? What correlation is there between the price of tickets and delays?

More ticketing staff I guess.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

Theoretically it is possible but economically, and in some cases realistically (lack of counters), it makes sense for passengers to stand in line for a reasonable period of time.

What would be more helpful is encouraging passengers to check-in online and even print their own boarding passes resulting in an expedited process.

I believe Singapore Airlines has four Economy Class check-in counters at LHR. I would guess it takes longer than 15 minutes to process those passengers (excluding internet check-in desk).



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1643 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
Sorry, you've lost there so you perhaps explain that? What correlation is there between the price of tickets and delays?

If you want to minimize delays, you'll need to fly fewer aircraft. This means one of two things: fly the same fleet with fewer available seats, which will reduce supply and thus increase prices, or buy a new fleet of larger airplanes, the cost of which gets passed on to the customer in the form of a ticket increase.

When the government starts regulating things, prices are going to go up. Sometimes that's an acceptable tradeoff, and sometimes it isn't.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1642 times:

It's just as well the Liberal Democrats will never get into power then. Maybe if they wanted to reduce queueing times at check-in, they should fund expansion to airports to allow for larger and more modern facilities. Oh wait, they're against that aswell...

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1617 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
More ticketing staff I guess.



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
If you want to minimize delays, you'll need to fly fewer aircraft. This means one of two things: fly the same fleet with fewer available seats, which will reduce supply and thus increase prices, or buy a new fleet of larger airplanes, the cost of which gets passed on to the customer in the form of a ticket increase.

Yes, I can understand that. However, that's whole different explanation/solution altogether, and if that was the meaning it would have been nice had the poster stated his meaning....not the use of a largely pointless statement which had no realistic meaning.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6039 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 7):
Yes, I can understand that. However, that's whole different explanation/solution altogether, and if that was the meaning it would have been nice had the poster stated his meaning....not the use of a largely pointless statement which had no realistic meaning.

Sorry, I've been too busy to reply. Besides, it was not "largely pointless" as it got the converstion going. Besides, what is more realistic than "Higher fares = better service." Not to throw out an attack on your country based on your profile, but if you knew the U.S.'s current overall customer service situation, you'd understand.

Besides, you start a topic by introducing ideas, not by a filabuster.

[Edited 2008-08-01 06:08:29]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1594 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
but other than diverting I see see no alternative to them circling, and other than anticipated substantial delays I can't see diverting as being practical.

Fly slower in order to reach the airport just in time for the anticipated slot. Of course, that would require a better ATC system (more information exchange).



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

I remember when the liberal democrats in UK use ot be the moderate party.

User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1521 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
but other than diverting I see see no alternative to them circling, and other than anticipated substantial delays I can't see diverting as being practical.

Fly slower in order to reach the airport just in time for the anticipated slot. Of course, that would require a better ATC system (more information exchange).

Build a third runway at LHR, that would cut down taxi queues and stacking on approach and reduce emissions.........oh wait they are aginst that


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1516 times:



Quoting Mutu (Reply 11):
Build a third runway at LHR, that would cut down taxi queues and stacking on approach and reduce emissions.........oh wait they are aginst that

 checkmark 



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

I think it's a great idea. Until there is a real cash cost to delays, nobody has any real reason to fix them. Airlines have had to be forced kicking and screaming every time some meaningful progress has had to be made in regards to the passenger. Losing bags, getting bumped, cancelling flights and deceptive prices are just a few things passengers put up with forever until the airlines were forced to compensate.

As long as the penalties for the delays are properly distributed as to cause, (including to the airports, security, ATC, and the airlines), make 'em pay, I say.



What the...?
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1461 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
As long as the penalties for the delays are properly distributed as to cause, (including to the airports, security, ATC, and the airlines), make 'em pay, I say.

So what happens if an aircraft goes tech? Who should pay for the delay: the airline or the manufacturer of the broken part?

What if there is a delay because a connecting flight is late and the airline decides to wait for the pax?


Your suggestion can hardly be enforced.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1454 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
As long as the penalties for the delays are properly distributed as to cause, (including to the airports, security, ATC, and the airlines), make 'em pay, I say.

You do realize that when you "make 'em pay" the costs will eventually be passed on to you when you buy a ticket, right?


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

Sounds like there's an election coming, and a no-name candidate is looking for an issue to both make people angry and stir up interest in his/her candidacy.

You don't get people to the ballot anymore by making them interested, you get them there by making them either afraid or angry or both.

That politician is smart enough to know that there's not a chance in hell of fixing the mess that is British civil aviation (specifically in southern England), but if he comes up with some soundbytes that play well to people's resentment over poor service, it might be enough to sway a few votes to his side, which could be what he/she needs to win an election.

And if you want to talk about streamlining, let's get the process for check-in and passing through security to the front of the discussion - THAT'S where the most frustrating part of the trip lies!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1428 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
I think it's a great idea. Until there is a real cash cost to delays, nobody has any real reason to fix them.

youre assuming that 1) most delays are preventable and 2) they are the airlines fault.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1378 times:



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 8):
Sorry, I've been too busy to reply. Besides, it was not "largely pointless" as it got the converstion going. Besides, what is more realistic than "Higher fares = better service." Not to throw out an attack on your country based on your profile, but if you knew the U.S.'s current overall customer service situation, you'd understand.

Yes, I understand, but what I was referring to was the cooment was 'largely pointless' as written as it provided no correlation at all to the thread title. Firstly, Higher fares theoretically should = better service (it's not a given) but, there again, the thread title was not a discussion on service levels....it was about delays.
Secondly, what has my country got to do with it, other than a politician from it? As a matter of interest, I know the US's current customer service situation very well indeed (what makes you think I don't?)......but once again, why are you bringing in such scenario's when the thread has nothing to do with them, let alone US ones?

Quoting Mutu (Reply 11):
Build a third runway at LHR, that would cut down taxi queues and stacking on approach and reduce emissions.........oh wait they are aginst that

And, in many ways, quite right to be. Alternatively, reducing the number of flights would do the trick as well wouldn't it......but then who would be against that, eh? Why would one side be right and the other wrong?


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6039 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1361 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
Yes, I understand, but what I was referring to was the cooment was 'largely pointless' as written as it provided no correlation at all to the thread title. Firstly, Higher fares theoretically should = better service (it's not a given) but, there again, the thread title was not a discussion on service levels....it was about delays.

Perhaps I'll reply to each thread with a 12 page double-spaced essay. There, happy now?

If people want to get through the line faster, there needs to be MORE people checking in, or more koisks (most places don't keep enough of either.) This in turn requires more money. This in turn requires higher overhead, which requires higher fare from the customers.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
Secondly, what has my country got to do with it, other than a politician from it?

I've no idea if you've been to this country, and therefore, had no idea if you've experienced our our customer service. Personally, the overall situation here in my opinion is that it's appalling; Gruff waiters, rip-off mechanics, staff who don't give a damn, etc. However, if you think the opposite, then great! I actually gave your country a compliment in what I said!

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
but once again, why are you bringing in such scenario's when the thread has nothing to do with them, let alone US ones?

Threads evolve. Deal with it.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1290 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15):
You do realize that when you "make 'em pay" the costs will eventually be passed on to you when you buy a ticket, right?

They are already being passed on to me. At the moment, the cost is my time, which has value. It is also to my money because the longer I'm delayed, the more it costs me in food, phone calls, amusement or whatever else it takes to get me through a delay. A few hours delay stuck in an airport, (not exactly known for reasonable prices), can add up in a hurry.

If an airline persistently can't make a schedule, it is obviously incapable of living up to the schedule which, for the most part, it sets.

When I buy a ticket, I should expect it do go as planned, barring unusual, unforeseen circumstances. If they advertise a service they cannot fulfil, that's fraud.

Make them accountable.



What the...?
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