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SY Closes JFK/LAX/SEA/SFO 1/5/09?  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 22 hours ago) and read 6170 times:

According to OAG and their web booking engine, SY will drop several business markets on or about 1/5/2009.

The following markets show service ending:
MSP-JFK/LAX/SEA/SFO

DFW/PHX/SAN appear to continue along with the beach destinations. PHX cuts back to 5/week also on 1/5/2009.

[Edited 2008-08-01 07:25:30]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 22 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

I just checked SunCountrys website and sure enough I don't see those cities mentioned above listed in the flight deal for January. Those are popular business destinations besides travel.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 22 hours ago) and read 6112 times:



Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 1):
I just checked SunCountrys website and sure enough I don't see those cities mentioned above listed in the flight deal for January. Those are popular business destinations besides travel.

I can't say I'm surprised, but I give them credit for going a different way than everybody else. The other airlines are all running from leisure and focusing on high yield business markets. Hopefully Sun Country is smart to do the opposite.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24893 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (6 years 22 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Interesting since SY is moving terminals at LAX in September which begs the question why bother?


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (6 years 22 hours ago) and read 6068 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Interesting since SY is moving terminals at LAX in September which begs the question why bother?

Like most airlines, planning and facilities probably don't talk. If you look at Sun Country's cool schedule calendar which highlights days of operation, you can see the bold days (indicating operations) coming to an end on 1/5/2008.


User currently offlinePHXmd80 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

I think that failing airlines go past just bad management; it truly is the cost of fuel. WN, the best run airline in the world, is expected to report a loss for 4Q (can't remember where I heard it). With SY's limited resources, I'm surprise that they are still around.

PHXmd80


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5906 times:



Quoting PHXmd80 (Reply 5):
I think that failing airlines go past just bad management; it truly is the cost of fuel. WN, the best run airline in the world, is expected to report a loss for 4Q (can't remember where I heard it). With SY's limited resources, I'm surprise that they are still around.

Sure, fuel is huge. I personally think WN will pull out a profit in the next quarter. It has been predicted many times that their string will end, but they always seem to find a way.

I think there will always be a niche for somebody to fly to Mexico, Caribbean, etc. from cold cities like MSP. Hopefully SY can maintain that niche, but it was always a stretch for them to fly business destinations. I wonder how long MSP-DFW will last? They could rotate the DFW-Mexico flying through Mexico instead of MSP. (e.g. MSP-CZM-DFW)


User currently offlineJrmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5906 times:

For many years past, SY has dry-leased additonal 738s from Transavia, to boost lift to warm-weather destinations from MSP in connection with Funjet and Apple Vacations, among others. I suspect fears of a weak consumer market this coming winter is driving a decision not to lease the additional equipment as they have in the past.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5841 times:



Quoting Jrmsp (Reply 7):
For many years past, SY has dry-leased additonal 738s from Transavia, to boost lift to warm-weather destinations from MSP in connection with Funjet and Apple Vacations, among others. I suspect fears of a weak consumer market this coming winter is driving a decision not to lease the additional equipment as they have in the past.

That's a good observation. That means, however, they will have several extra aircraft as soon as Winter is over in April/May since I doubt they will reopen these cities. I wonder how they will deal with that.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

SY maybe setting itself up to be a charter air carrier out of DTW for NW vacations and Funjet. Right now we are down to just bulk air or reg air prices. We have not charter flights from DTW to LAS. And we sure could us it. I'm losing clients left and right that want to go to LAS but refuse to pay the high prices that are being charged.

Chuck


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5374 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 5743 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Interesting since SY is moving terminals at LAX in September which begs the question why bother?

??? I don't see how this begs the question. Nothing was attempted to be proven.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 20 hours ago) and read 5656 times:

What will SY do with the 737s operating on these routes?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5456 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (6 years 20 hours ago) and read 5656 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
The following markets show service ending:
MSP-JFK/LAX/SEA/SFO

I'm certainly not surprised about SEA. NW has always been strong in the corridor, and now AS is adding service SEA-MSP. It seemed like only a matter of time until SY pulled out.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 20 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

I have always wanted to try SY on my yearly trip to Minnesota; however, their schedule from SAN simply doesn't work - any savings in airfare are eaten up by the required extra hotel night, from the fact that these flights don't arrive until around midnight.

I realize that SY is a small airline, and perhaps this schedule works for Minnesotans, but for an airline to really compete effectively, it has to offer something to BOTH ends of the flight. In the case of west coast destinations, your business traveller in California is going to have trouble with having just one flight per day.

SY is going to have to focus on exactly what it wants to be - is it going to do just charters? A competitor for NW? An airline just for Minnesotans? Unless they find their niche quickly, the future isn't looking that good...



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 19 hours ago) and read 5492 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):
I wonder how long MSP-DFW will last? They could rotate the DFW-Mexico flying through Mexico instead of MSP. (e.g. MSP-CZM-DFW)

Wouldn't that increase crewing costs. Am I right in thinking MSP-DFW-Mexico and back can be done in one trip whereas MSP-Mexico-DFW and back would require two sets of crew as well as having to nightstop crew in DFW or Mexico?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5001 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (6 years 18 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

I am saddened to see SY leaving SEA. Perhaps they will keep it seasonal during the heavy cruise season.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 years 17 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Interesting. LAX surprises me most of all, especially if they are in fact hanging on to SAN. I would have to guess that there is more competitive capacity out of LA than from San Diego -- NW reduces SAN-MSP to just 3 n/s a day in the winter. SAN has pretty much been one r/t daily on SY, year-round, and I assume, a good, solid, consistent performer for them.

SFO and SEA I can understand although I am curious to see if there will eventually be a P R indicating whether the cuts are permanent or seasonal. (I would guess, as suggested by 'Animal, seasonal.)

In any case, I am happy to see that Sun Country is still with us, especially in San Diego.

bb


User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 16 hours ago) and read 5030 times:



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):

What will SY do with the 737s operating on these routes?

They would just go onto the Florida routes that operate seasonal.


User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 15 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

One of the things to keep in mind also about all of this is everyone is doing what SunCountry is doing with cutting back on flights. AirTran has done it already on a number of routes along with many of the major Airlines like Northwest, American etc.
People aren't going to fly or buy while oil companies are making record profits for themselves while keeping fuel prices high.
It should be interesting to watch for the remainder of the summer to see what happens with SunCountry and every Airline in the industry. No one likes to see any company go out of business because of poor management or and oil companies who keep prices high for there own greed.


User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 15 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Don't get in a tizzy yet, winter schedule still being built.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 hours ago) and read 4734 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Wouldn't that increase crewing costs. Am I right in thinking MSP-DFW-Mexico and back can be done in one trip whereas MSP-Mexico-DFW and back would require two sets of crew as well as having to nightstop crew in DFW or Mexico?

It would require a DFW RON for crews, but that might be cheaper than losing money on the DFW-MSP route if all the business markets are not making money. There are a lot of IFs there, but DFW is about the only non-beach left in their network. PHX isn't technically the beach, but it looks like one!  Smile

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
LAX surprises me most of all, especially if they are in fact hanging on to SAN.

I thought that at first, but SAN is more of a leisure market than LAX. I think that is the underlying theme.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):

SFO and SEA I can understand although I am curious to see if there will eventually be a P R indicating whether the cuts are permanent or seasonal.

I can't see LAX/SEA/SFO/JFK all being seasonal stations. Maybe SEA or SFO, but I'd be surprised if they were all going to be seasonal. Although it is a common tactic to say a market is suddenly seasonal and then it never comes back (ahem, AirTran).

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 19):
Don't get in a tizzy yet, winter schedule still being built.

If the flights are gone from the reservations system then all the bookings are now queued for reaccomodation. If it's a mistake, somebody is getting fired!


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 hours ago) and read 4639 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
PHX isn't technically the beach, but it looks like one!

 checkmark  It's got everything a beach has but the water!

For SY, PHX must be more of a leisure market than a business market -- not hard to believe; plenty of golf packages, resorts, dude ranches, and warm winter weather...

Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
thought that at first, but SAN is more of a leisure market than LAX. I think that is the underlying theme.

I'm still scratching my head about LA; to my way of thinking, LA is an "everything" market -- leisure, warm-weather-in-winter, cruises, business, int'l gateway -- and it's amazing to think that anyone would pull out. (In fact, JFK is also hard to believe except for the "warm-weather-in-winter" part.)

bb


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 hours ago) and read 4557 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I'm still scratching my head about LA; to my way of thinking, LA is an "everything" market -- leisure, warm-weather-in-winter, cruises, business, int'l gateway -- and it's amazing to think that anyone would pull out. (In fact, JFK is also hard to believe except for the "warm-weather-in-winter" part.)

I know what you are thinking. NY and LA have a lot of tourism. They do, but it is a smaller percentage than you think even if the total number is large. If you accept my precept that SY basically carries zero biz passengers (low frequency, no effective frequent flyer program), then SY can compete for probably 50% of the PHX market and 100% of the CUN market. They can probably only compete for 20% of the LAX market. While that is still a lot of people, NW also does well with leisure passengers so by the time they share the 20% it just isn't enough to fill a plane.

There is a traditional leisure affinity between MSP and PHX in the Winter, same with Denver. Even so, they cut back PHX to 5/week.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Going by the schedule currently loaded, Laughlin flights end soon including the semi-regular MSP service. Or it could be that the flights will be purely casino charters and no longer sold also by Sun Country


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 hours ago) and read 3789 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Interesting since SY is moving terminals at LAX in September which begs the question why bother?

What terminal are they LQQKing to moved to? They went from T5 where DL does the ground handling to T3 where Hallmark-Aviation Services does the handling.... Where next?


25 SYfan100 : Some days during the winter months in the past they would run 3 flights down to Phoenix and all would be 85% or more full. Hopefully it is just a err
26 LAXintl : T-6 first couple weeks of September.
27 Renfnl : Exactly
28 SANFan : "Business travelers"? On SY? SEA vacation travelers in January? Hmmm.... bb
29 Post contains links Enilria : IAD drops September 7th. Here is their route map. http://www.suncountry.com/reservations/routemap.shtml IAD shows seasonal. The others don't. It is p
30 SNCntry32 : JFK suprizes me. But, if the winder sech is till being built..
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