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Delta 767 Stuck In Little Rock  
User currently offlineChumley From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16179 times:

DL1033 ATL-PHX made an unscheduled medical stop at LIT, but ended up being stranded there as LIT does not have ground equipment capable of moving the 767 from the gate. DL is bringing in a tug from MEM to get the aircraft moving again!
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...0731divertedflight07312008-CR.html

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16137 times:

Why would they even go to a gate? Shouldn't there be equipment available to deplane the ill passenger like a moveable stairs, or even a forklift?

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16113 times:

As I suspected it is a towbar they need..... makes sense. 136 airmiles.

"Delta is bringing a proper towbar from Memphis to Little Rock overnight. "


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

Last I heard was that it wasn't a tug problem per se, but that there wasn't a suitable towbar in LIT, and it was a 767 towbar that was being brought in from MEM.

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16068 times:

Should have stopped here, in FSM, instead. At least they wouldn't have to worry about having to use a towbar wink  and a hospital is only about 4 blocks away.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16022 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
Why would they even go to a gate? Shouldn't there be equipment available to deplane the ill passenger like a moveable stairs, or even a forklift?

Looking at Google Earth KLIT has several jetways that appear to be easily capable of 757/767 height....the mid one on the west side is looks good. Lot easier to handle a medical with a jetway than with stairs....and if no carrier is bringing 757/767 or higher aircraft to LIT there very well be no stair trucks for that height easily available....emphasis on easily as this was a medical with little advanced warning.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15990 times:



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 5):

Somebody in ops should have thought about the pushback problem before it became a problem. Most airports of that size have some sort of portable stairs they could have used. After all, when high ranking officials such as the president come to town, they don't park at the jetway but use stairs.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAmwest2United From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15952 times:
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Quoting Mayor (Reply 6):
Most airports of that size have some sort of portable stairs they could have used.

MDT doesn't have Wide-body airstairs here. We get the diversions. If someone from UPS or FedEx is around, they have Maint. stands for widebody, but not 747 and 777. There are also no towbars for 777 or 747 either. Medical Emg is just that.



Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
User currently offlineChumley From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15857 times:

Since I don't work in ground ops, can somebody explain this to me? The "tug" is the actual vehicle that pushes the aircraft, but the towbar is the "arm" that connects the aircraft to the tug, right?

Are there different towbars for every aircraft type, or are some interchangeable due to similar aircraft size? Do Boeing and Airbus have different "connectors" that are incompatible with each other?


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15842 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 6):
After all, when high ranking officials such as the president come to town, they don't park at the jetway but use stairs.

They will not select your airport for AF1 if you cannot supply at least two fully capable pax airstairs that are in great condition....and they visit and inspect prior. Yes...AF1 has internal stairs but they are preferred not to be used for public ceremony. Remember that event is planned weeks out...a medical diversion only gives you minutes at most. Two completely different events and needs.

DL could have thrown the towbar in the belly pit of any of their mainline aircraft and had it there within a hour or so on a ferry/flagstop flight from KATL if they had wished. Even recrewing if needed.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15826 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 6):
Somebody in ops should have thought about the pushback problem before it became a problem.

It was a medical diversion, the point is to get on the ground as fast as possible at the closest place so that person can get medical help, a towbar or pushback should be one of the last things they should have to worry about.

Quoting Amwest2United (Reply 7):
but not 747 and 777. There are also no towbars for 777 or 747 either

How about the person who always had that 747SP sitting at the field for a long time, surely the FBO that took care of that has a towbar for that.

Quoting Chumley (Reply 8):
Since I don't work in ground ops, can somebody explain this to me? The "tug" is the actual vehicle that pushes the aircraft, but the towbar is the "arm" that connects the aircraft to the tug, right?

Correct

Quoting Chumley (Reply 8):
Are there different towbars for every aircraft type, or are some interchangeable due to similar aircraft size?

Most of the times a lot of aircraft have a different towbar.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15748 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
It was a medical diversion, the point is to get on the ground as fast as possible at the closest place so that person can get medical help, a towbar or pushback should be one of the last things they should have to worry about.

What I meant was that ops in LIT should have thought of that before they parked them. I didn't mean that they shouldn't let them land just because they didn't have a towbar. The flight didn't just pop out of the sky, land and pull up to the gate without DL ops at LIT having some warning, did it?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15733 times:

According to flightstats, this flight still hasn't left LIT, despite arriving yesterday evening. tow bar still en route?

User currently offlineUA76Heavy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15733 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
Why would they even go to a gate? Shouldn't there be equipment available to deplane the ill passenger like a moveable stairs, or even a forklift?

Because we're talking about Arkansas (I lived there for 4 years)! Perhaps, a better alternative would have been MEM, MCI or TUL. All are equipped to handle big jets and are close to LIT.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15704 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 12):
According to flightstats, this flight still hasn't left LIT, despite arriving yesterday evening. tow bar still en route?

Left a couple of hours ago.. Almost to PHX as I write this...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9889


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15664 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 12):
According to flightstats, this flight still hasn't left LIT, despite arriving yesterday evening. tow bar still en route?

DL9889 new flt number...eta PHX about 1245 edt.

Quoting UA76Heavy (Reply 13):
Perhaps, a better alternative would have been MEM, MCI or TUL. All are equipped to handle big jets and are close to LIT.

Yes but weather in the area or enroute...severity of the medical issue....all play a part in the process.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15648 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):

Now, that poor ramp rat has to drive the push-back tug ALL the way back to MEM!  wink   duck 



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15618 times:

Too bad they could not have borrowed a tow bar from the AFB. The may have had one that would have worked.


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15609 times:



Quoting UA76Heavy (Reply 13):
Perhaps, a better alternative would have been MEM, MCI or TUL. All are equipped to handle big jets and are close to LIT.

Perhaps. But Captain's discretion came into play here and, ultimately, towbar or not, proved to be the proper course of action.

We can debate it ad nauseam for hours on end, but, in the end, the aircraft commander had the final say.

Period.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15584 times:

So did the pax get off the plane, or are they stuck on it?

LIT isn't one of my favorite airports, but being stuck on a plane on a ramp somewhere would be a gigantic bummer.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15588 times:



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 17):
The may have had one that would have worked.

They didn't. Had you read the article you would have known that.  eyebrow 


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15458 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 20):

My point was that LIT ops DID know they didn't have the proper towbar....so, why didn't they park him away from the jetway and use the stairs. Surely the AFB or LIT airport authority has a set of stairs they could have used.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15448 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 19):
So did the pax get off the plane, or are they stuck on it?

Read the article. It contains the answer to your question.

Strange concept, yes.  sly 


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15436 times:

Quoting Mayor (Reply 21):
My point was that LIT ops DID know they didn't have the proper towbar....so, why didn't they park him away from the jetway and use the stairs.

Perhaps you should call them and ask?  Smile

[Edited 2008-08-01 09:51:28]

User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3538 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15378 times:

Can't we break out the reverse thrust push backs for something like this?  Smile


Do you like movies about gladiators?
25 A10WARTHOG : Depends on the airline SOP and aircraft manufacture.
26 Jetlanta : You know, it is entirely possible that LIT doesn't HAVE airstairs that reach a 767. Or perhaps they weren't certain they would reach. Not something y
27 Evan767 : Uggh.. I read this title completely wrong..
28 Josh32121 : Touché! I recall smaller planes (DC-9's and MD-80's) powering back regularly at BNA in the 90's. While it wastes a lot of fuel, isn't that part of t
29 AirCop : If I remember right, didn't a VS 346 get stuck in LAS for the same reason awhile back? They had a towbar for a 343 but not a 346 had to wait for it t
30 KELPkid : Generally, with wing-mounted engines, you will put the plane on it's tail if you try to use reverse thrust to back up. Not to mention how much dust a
31 Manu : I read the title of this thread and thought "How does a 767 get stuck in a little rock?" I picture a rock on the runway acting like a lock or somethin
32 CuriousFlyer : So have they been able to leave yet or are they still stuck in the middle of nowhere?
33 OPNLguy : Try replies #14 and #15...
34 Flyingbronco05 : When I have been to LIT, there is always a UPS 757 in the cargo apron. Why didn't they use a tow bar from UPS?
35 KaiGywer : That reminds me of when they moved the Oslo, Norway airport from FBU to OSL. 60 km of interstate highways. FBU in operation until night, OSL opening
36 PGNCS : It is forbidden in the aircraft limitations for the 767.
37 Goldenshield : I've never worked a 767 rampside, but I do believe they have different towbars. The 767 gets MUCH heavier than a 757, so the towbar has to meet diffe
38 Dragon6172 : My apologies, slow work computer would not open the link. Now that I am home with my Cray super computer, I have read the article. They should have f
39 Mayor : I seem to remember a president named Clinton, from Arkansas, that went home quite often to LIT on the presidential a/c. Could it be they still have t
40 CuriousFlyer : Thanks, I had missed those posts.
41 RL757PVD : Im surprised the FBO didnt have one.. LIT does see its fair share of diversions and occasional large aircraft charters fly in. I was stick in LIT afte
42 TWAL1011727 : I have seen diversions at MLB where we are looking at the airplane taxing in with absolutely no warning. Delta uses the old B727 towbar for the B757
43 Adools : Wasn't it an LH A346 from MUC heading to LAX? I tried to do a search, I know there was a thread on here about that incident. Regardless of the compan
44 Bok269 : Maybe LIT ops was more concerned with, I don't know, the fact that there was a passenger on board in need of medical assistance and there were more p
45 NetJetAndy : Sorry I didn't see question was already answered[Edited 2008-08-01 16:56:58]
46 Bok269 : Looks like it's not possible in a 767:
47 NwAflyer07 : You essentially got everything right. Pushback "tractors" (tugs, vehicles, whatever u wanna call them) connect to various towbars that, in turn, conn
48 Birdbrainz : It seems like you'll only put the plane on its tail if you attempt to use the brakes while rolling backwards. Using forward thrust to stop will keep
49 Maxisno1 : I think as long as the passenger is okay then it isn't a problem. You can't have everything!
50 Mayor : Every DL station that is designated as a diversion point has to have the proper equipment on hand to work the aircraft. I know, I worked at two diffe
51 FalconBird : What we have here is a failure to communicate. Someone on the ground or in the cockpit should have figured that out long before they decided to divert
52 Platinumfoota : Cant they just move the little rock? What ever happened to grabbing a couple of guidemen and hitting the reverse thrusters??
53 Wjcandee : Had this happen at LGA once on DL. I was flying Mainline and approaching the top 3 or 4 for departure when we had to pull out of line and visit the ap
54 Post contains images NW7E7 : LIT has its share of large aircraft. UPS flies a daily A300 there. LIT has also hosted 777's and even the Concorde!
55 Lexy : Yes it has. It's not a podunk backwater towns airport. For a city it's size, it's quite the overacheiver. Matter of fact, just two years ago, Aeromex
56 Bok269 : All I'm saying is that the issue at hand (a passenger in medical distress) should be the first concern. If ops felt that the best way to get the pax
57 DL Widget Head : You do know that this was an emergency diversion and not a planned diversion due to weather. In emergency situations, the crew will put down at the n
58 DL Widget Head : Nobody has mentioned it yet but, DL did locate a towbar at LIT and attempted to push the a/c not too long after the incident but, as it were, the 1st
59 Jcf5002 : Good to see another person familiar with MDT here! I used to work for the FBO back when I was going to school there in Middletown. I remember wheneve
60 Mayor : [ Do you think that this moment was the first time they realized they didn't have the correct towbar? All I'm saying is that it would been just as eas
61 AvConsultant : I remembering seeing the Eastern and American 757 power back from the gates.
62 FalconBird : When I was with Eastern we only powered back the DC9's and 727's. 757 were always pushed back along with the other larger aircraft.
63 TheGov : Instead of looking at this from an DL ops standpoint, perhaps we need to look at it from an EMS standpoint. When EMS is called to the airfield, they h
64 Mayor : Well, like I said, the revelation that they tried one towbar and it didn't work, changes my attitude on what should have been done. My whole point wa
65 AvConsultant : 1986 to 1988, the 757's powered back in ATL; I saw an AA 757 power back from the T-gates in ATL and Terminal A in DFW. I had the opportunity to ride
66 Mayor : Before the DL/WA merger, we used gate D-1 (and sometimes D-2) and we would push our flights out of the gate towards the terminal and then pull the a/
67 Mir : This was pretty surprising to me: the CRJ-200 and CRJ-700, at least at OO, use different towbars. -Mir
68 Lexy : I would assume they would considering one is considerably larger than the other. Still, it is a neat factoid to know for those of us that are not ram
69 MSYPI7185 : This has been known to happen. It did to me once. This is not what Thrust Reversers are primarily for. Also I did not see this mentioned. Not all tow
70 TristarSteve : Just read through this thread with all the talk about towbars. Yes most of them are different Yes they all fit, but, they are designed for different a
71 Mayor : Delta tried those out in ATL a few years back but I don't know what the outcome of that experiment. Any of our ATL Delta people on here that could te
72 N6168E : My memory's a little hazy on this, but didn't the gates that were used for power backs have to be set up differently with a little slope on them to h
73 AvConsultant : Not sure about ATL, some gates are restricted from power back due to the windows due to the thrust being deflected down and up. I don't know the deta
74 DALMD88 : ATL has a couple of towbarless tugs. We call them SuperTug. SuperTugs are dedicated for long aircraft movements, ie gate to hangar. As far as I know
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