Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL Vs. CO, Who Gets The Kids?  
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

So the friendly relationship is officially over, Delta is now actively poaching elites from CO via the "status match" program, something they wouldn't do for years due to SkyTeam partnership.

Less than 24 hours after faxing them my request for status match from CO Silver Elite, Delta made me Silver Medallion no questions asked. In the past, requests were denied outright, or occasionally "travel challenges" similar to AA were issued for customers who were relocating to a Delta hub city, but generally, they had an agreement not to comp status among them (including NW).

So, anyone who needs to jump the CO or DL ship for any reason and go to the other, now is the time. I would assume CO will behave the same way, but can't tell you from my own experience.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7060 times:

somehow I doubt that this will be the last spat before they walk out of court separately.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5779 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6646 times:

Wait a minute.....
With things still somewhat (okay, maybe 10% tops) uncertain, isn't it a little early?
And, as a CO elite (well, silver by the end of the month, and possibly gold by the end of the year) would I want to move over to Delta?
Would they match any joe's status, or is it only for a certain number or group of people?
What I'm asking is what is available to me, and whether or not it benefits me somehow. I'm very happy with Continental, though I always enjoy my Delta flights as well.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4051 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

I suspect we will see a similar spat with US and their Star Alliance partners before too long. UA & AC will bid good riddance to their orphaned stepchild!


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6429 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
With things still somewhat (okay, maybe 10% tops) uncertain, isn't it a little early?

Even 10% (tops) is a pretty low degree of doubt regarding the DL/NW merger (which I presume is the uncertainty you are talking about). DL and NW say that the Justice department has given them a timeline for approval, assuming that all of the documents that have been presented do not reveal any anti-competitive aspects of the merger (which the DOJ has apparently told DL/NW what it will be looking for) in order for DL/NW to say they are quite certain the merger will go through.

CO's discussions with Star, so far as I know, are not contingent on Star's part on DL and NW merging. There are obvious contingencies for CO in leaving Skyteam - and the primary one is that DL/NW have to merge, CO has to wait 9 months after the merger before leaving, or CO has to paid damages to Skyteam.

9 months from DL's expected merger date of early December 2008 leaves CO in the position of joining Star in the fall of 2009. There is alot of work that goes into alliance relationships and all sides need to start now.... there is also no assurance that the DOJ which has to bless immunized alliances will move forward on anything related to CO and Star until DL/NW is actually blessed.

During the nine months between when DL/NW merge and when CO can leave Skyteam (unless Star pays damages to Skyteam or offers concessions such as slots or terminal access at key airports in order to allow CO to move sooner such as before summer of 2009), there will be all kinds of activity regarding who splits what. There are corporate contracts, frequent flyer benefits, joint service contracts, financial settlement and revenue management cooperation (even though CO is not immunized in Skyteam there is still cooperation about where inventory on joint flights is pointed for each carrier), joint decision making (and access to those meetings) that are at stake.

You can bet that as CO moves further from Skyteam and DL/NW become one, there will be more efforts to eliminate the advantages each has.

DL/NW will have the advantage of being one airline legally and financially and already have immunized cooperation with all of its major transatlantic partners. DL/NW also has the first mover advantage while CO has to wait.


Will DL/NW gain a permanent advantage over CO and Star? No... but Skyteam will be doing all it can to maximize the benefits to itself while cutting CO out of the benefits of Skyteam before it can gain benefits from Star.

The airline industry is not a charity operation and to think that all parties would not act in ways to protect their own interests is to live in a dream world.


User currently offlineMsntriathlete From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

OK, maybe some of you who are more travel-savvy and elite-savvy than I can answer this for me. I'm Skyteam elite via CO OnePass elite. I realize that by late 2009, CO will leave Skyteam, and people like me will have to make a choice, but it seems for now, and probably for over a year to come, it's business-as-usual for CO and Skyteam. Why, then, is it advantageous to do an elite status-match with DL at this point? Wouldn't it be better to wait until next year, closer to the actual split?

User currently offlineBWilliams From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5357 times:



Quoting Msntriathlete (Reply 5):
Why, then, is it advantageous to do an elite status-match with DL at this point? Wouldn't it be better to wait until next year, closer to the actual split?

If I understand how they do it, you don't get a mileage transfer along with your status-match... just the FF tier itself, correct?

If so, I could see someone wanting to just get their FF status moved over to DL so they can start using the benefits now, and start racking up miles for, say, travel at the end of 2009 on DL.



Regards, Brad Williams
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5327 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
CO has to wait 9 months after the merger before leaving, or CO has to paid damages to Skyteam.

Has this been confirmed anywhere where a link could be provided, your track record with these types of issues is a little shaky. Remember your comments regarding the Golden Share, you stated that CO had to go through a waiting period of something along the lines of 9 months or so before they could even discuss the Golden Share disposition (your words, go check). You even stated CO might have to sell their Micronesian Division to DL/NWA to be allowed to purchase back the Golden Share.

Well the truth was there was no waiting period, and CO did not have to wait to see if the DL/NWA marriage even was consummated. CO purchased back NWA's Golden Share for $100 Dollars within 48-72 hours after the formal announcement of their intentions to merge. DL/NWA were not due any compensation, nor did CO have to negotiate the Golden Share's disposition.

We should try to post accurate information, your assertion that CO has to wait 9 months post merger seem suspiciously similar to the statements (which were incorrect) regarding the disposition of the Golden Share.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDutchflyboi From Netherlands, joined Apr 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

Continental started doing the same last week. They send out a message regarding this, even for skyteam airlines

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4904 times:



Quoting Msntriathlete (Reply 5):
Why, then, is it advantageous to do an elite status-match with DL at this point? Wouldn't it be better to wait until next year, closer to the actual split?

A few reasons:

1. you want to start flying the new airline exclusively now, and want status on it
2. at this time of year or later, the status match is good through 2009 for most programs, so without doing anything but asking, you have status for 18 months if you match today.
3. due to airline cuts, markets you frequent may be closed on CO or DL, but not vice versa (my reason for switching)
4. due to a move, you now live in the hub city of the other current SkyTeam partner (the reason many people choose to match)
5. if you are Skymiles elite, you want your mileage to count toward Star not SkyTeam, so you switch to flying CO (and earning OnePass miles on DL/NW for now) knowing that all miles from today will be able to be used on Star carriers in the future
6. alternately, you DON'T want to have to use your miles on Star carriers, instead preferring SkyTeam carriers and DL other partners, so you don't want to accumulate any more CO miles for this reason

One annoying thing I found about CO that made me match now, other than that they are pulling out of SRQ, is that if you request to earn DL miles on any CO flight, they treat you as if you have NO status with CO or SkyTeam (unless your DL account is elite as well). You won't get upgrades and your ticket will not say "skyteam elite" or "elite access" on it. I can't find anywhere in the CO documentation that says they will take your elite rights away on a flight if you don't list CO as the airline you'd like to use to earn miles, but they do it anyway.

So for me, it's I don't want to continue to fly CO for the rest of the year while earning DL miles to have DL status next year, because CO will not grant me any benefits of being Silver despite my status with them. If I want to enjoy status today, the best answer was to switch to DL now.

Once I found that out, it was a no brainer.  Smile



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4635 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Has this been confirmed anywhere where a link could be provided, your track record with these types of issues is a little shaky. Remember your comments regarding the Golden Share, you stated that CO had to go through a waiting period of something along the lines of 9 months or so before they could even discuss the Golden Share disposition (your words, go check). You even stated CO might have to sell their Micronesian Division to DL/NWA to be allowed to purchase back the Golden Share.

Well the truth was there was no waiting period, and CO did not have to wait to see if the DL/NWA marriage even was consummated. CO purchased back NWA's Golden Share for $100 Dollars within 48-72 hours after the formal announcement of their intentions to merge. DL/NWA were not due any compensation, nor did CO have to negotiate the Golden Share's disposition.

We should try to post accurate information, your assertion that CO has to wait 9 months post merger seem suspiciously similar to the statements (which were incorrect) regarding the disposition of the Golden Share.


"makes much more sense to live in the present tense"

The 9 months wait is correct. It is part of CO's contract with Skyteam. The terms and conditions of their Skyteam contract is entirely independent of their former Golden Share agreement with Northwest. CO could theoretically re-negotiate the terms of their Skyteam contract for an early exit, but there would likely be financial implications.


User currently offlineMSNtriathlete From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Ikramerica, Thank you for the explanation. It makes more sense now. I was under the false impression that asking for DL elite now would only last me through 2008, but if it lasts all the way through 2009, then it's totally worth doing. I'll have to look up on DL's website how to do the status-match.

Your reasons for switching are totally clear. I'm undecided. I like CO a lot, but their service from MSN is limited (plenty from MKE though). As it stands, I fly CO and YX when I can, and NW when I have to, to fill in the gaps of what my preferred airlines don't serve. Once CO goes to Star, UA would become my "have to" carrier. While I'm no fan of NW's customer service, they are generally very reliable and punctual in and out of here. United Express seems to be delayed often between here and ORD, esp in the afternoon, which limits their usefulness. I fly enough to make elite on one carrier and still take a couple flights on other airlines that don't count toward my elite status. At this point, I'm thus totally undecided on whether I'll go to Star with CO or stay with Skyteam via NW/DL.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4505 times:



Quoting Michman (Reply 10):
CO could theoretically re-negotiate the terms of their Skyteam contract for an early exit, but there would likely be financial implications.

Yes, but as I've said in the past, politics often make for changes in firm contracts. If CO agreed not to challenge the merger of DL and NW on anti-trust grounds, (something DL, NW, AF/KL don't want to worry about), they may be allowed out of SkyTeam on the day DL+NW is official, which would be next winter, IIRC.

I expect this to be the end result.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5779 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 4310 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
If CO agreed not to challenge the merger of DL and NW on anti-trust grounds, (something DL, NW, AF/KL don't want to worry about), they may be allowed out of SkyTeam on the day DL+NW is official, which would be next winter, IIRC.

Very interesting.

Are you saying that the merger won't be official until NEXT winter? As in, just a few months, or winter 2009/2010?? Either way, I expected an announcement much sooner.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

CO is in no position to argue that DL/NW is anticompetitive. It is the DOJ that decides such things. And there is far more overlap between UA and CO and US than there is between DL and NW.

The only decision that Skyteam has to make is whether they want CO siphoning off revenue any longer or whether they want to keep CO in Skyteam long enough to prevent them from being able to set up shop w/ Star before next summer.

The merger is expected to be approved between US Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2008 and will be implemented immediately. The complete transition will take place over 18 months but NW will lose its identify as a separate entity within a day of the DOJ approval.


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 4102 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am somewhat mystified that the carriers in any given alliance would not do status matches anyway. When the DL/NW/CO cooperation was announced, one of the key elements in the government's approval was that the carriers continue to vigorously compete in their frequent flyer programs.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4006 times:



Quoting MSNtriathlete (Reply 11):
I fly enough to make elite on one carrier and still take a couple flights on other airlines that don't count toward my elite status. At this point, I'm thus totally undecided on whether I'll go to Star with CO or stay with Skyteam via NW/DL.

I was on the same fence until CO decided to close SRQ. And DL does have more flights out of LAX, but their expansion is over. But merging with NW, they'll have more Asia and Hawaii flights from here, though of course CO in Star means that ANA and SQ would be options for me.

And I'm like you, only fly enough for status on one carrier.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
CO is in no position to argue that DL/NW is anticompetitive. It is the DOJ that decides such things. And there is far more overlap between UA and CO and US than there is between DL and NW.

A merger is far different than an alliance. And all CO has to do is file the complaints/objections to make things go slower.

People said the same thing about CO and others in regard to VX, but their objections made VX change it's structure and added many months to their approval...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMSNtriathlete From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

I just mailed in my status match request to DL, so I'll let you know how it goes!

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3774 times:



Quoting MSNtriathlete (Reply 17):
I just mailed in my status match request to DL, so I'll let you know how it goes!

You could have faxed it...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Matching to Silver on Delta might not be the best idea now. After their double MQM promotion the number of elites has jumped up making upgrades harder to come by over there. I'm CO Silver and upgrades are tough as it is!

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3732 times:



Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 19):
After their double MQM promotion the number of elites has jumped up making upgrades harder to come by over there. I'm CO Silver and upgrades are tough as it is!

I have had no upgrades on CO for a year other than full Y AU class. It's become worthless as a silver.

So DL would not be a change for me there. But on many of their planes, their F cabin is a larger percentage of the plane, so that helps.

Either way, I'll get more standard mileage as a silver, priority check-in, and priority security line at LAX. And flights into SRQ which is important to me.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMSNtriathlete From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

You get priority security as a silver? I thought with DL that only came with Gold and up.

User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 3659 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
There are corporate contracts, frequent flyer benefits, joint service contracts, financial settlement and revenue management cooperation (even though CO is not immunized in Skyteam there is still cooperation about where inventory on joint flights is pointed for each carrier), joint decision making (and access to those meetings) that are at stake.

Wrong again buddy. You continue to say things that are patently false.

Airlines alliances are marketing relationships. That's it. Too many A.netters don't seem to grasp that fact. Airlines sign their own corporate contracts and their own service contracts. They certainly do not cooperate on financial and revenue management decisions. Anti trust is not open ended, and you cannot collude on domestic sectors. Only specific international ones.

Moving from one alliance to the other is more of a customer service and IT problem. It has little to do with what you stated above.

But why let facts get in the way of your "arguments."


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 3656 times:



Quoting MSNtriathlete (Reply 21):
You get priority security as a silver? I thought with DL that only came with Gold and up.

well that would suck. DL doesn't put enough information on their website about benefits, so I assumed that elite was, you know, elite, medallion was medallion.

Well, i still have my CO elite card, so that should work for the rest of the year…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

I found the webpage. That is really, really lame on DL's part. It costs them nothing buy goodwill to allow Silver into the security line.

Man do I hope CO reopens SRQ



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 MSNtriathlete : Yea, that's one advantage of CO Elite over DL. On the other hand, companion upgrades on DL for Silvers is nice too.
26 Ikramerica : Maybe we can organize a letter campaign to DL re: silvers having access to security express lines. Couch the argument in the "with all the cutbacks a
27 AA737-823 : I do too, for your sake. And another is mileage bonuses: CO silvers get 50%. Delta silvers get 25%. For those of us that are silver, that's a big dea
28 DeltaL1011man : Fine But if you get on a Delta 777-232LR it is much better than CO's 757s. Why would you pt a international A/C vs a Domestic A/C? well if you move t
29 Ikramerica : Because CO flies them domestically. It's pretty clear. CO flies them to EWR-Florida to increase utilization, and twice a day between LAX and EWR to p
30 DeltaL1011man : And DL flies the 75E Domestically. That would be a fair comparison but comparing a DL domestic 757 with a CO international 757 is not a fair fight. I
31 AA737-823 : Because Continental flies their 757-200s domestically, ON ROUTES TO MY CITY. Delta does NOT fly international configured 757s to my city. Get over yo
32 AA737-823 : P.S. Had nothing to say about the elite bonuses, huh? Still, I'm very open minded to the prospect of switching to Delta, as I really like the SkyTeam
33 DLflynhayn : Not yet atleast!
34 STT757 : Your making it out to seem like SRQ is the only option to travelers, Tampa is 38 miles up the road from SRQ. I've driven Sarasota-Tampa many times, I
35 Cmhsrq : 58 miles to be a bit more exact. Most travelers do find the drive to and from Tampa an inconvenience, but the possibility of cheaper or non-stop flig
36 Jacobin777 : Why? ...actually I've been down here in MCN for the past few weeks..its bloody hot and humid with some thunderstorms......
37 Ikramerica : Come now, I hear it's nice during one week in the fall. Well bully for you. I've driven it too. It can take 1.25 to 1.5 hours during rush hour. Alter
38 STT757 : There are only two nonstops from SRQ to NYC (1 daily CO 737-300 to EWR, and a single daily B6 flight to JFK) there will only be one daily once (if) C
39 Lemurs : As a recent FF'er of both, I'll say this: I get upgrades on DL transcon as a gold (and now plat) WAY more than I ever did with CO as a gold. Also, the
40 JFK787NYC : I called Continental last night to ask to match my status with Delta as a Gold Skymiles member. I faxed over copy of the card and my most recent Skymi
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BOS Terminal A: Who Gets The Gates? posted Thu Jul 26 2007 16:15:29 by Flyingchoirboy
Who Gets The First Eight 787s? Answers Here posted Sat Jun 23 2007 04:09:01 by IAD787
Regional Connections, Who Gets The Money? posted Thu Dec 29 2005 22:48:23 by EIRules
When Do We Find Out Who Gets The China Routes? posted Sat Dec 11 2004 22:15:26 by Cory6188
Who Gets The First Boeing 777-300/ER? posted Sun Jun 22 2003 22:23:48 by Clipper471
Anyone Who Gets The Mag. Airliners posted Tue Dec 19 2000 21:38:34 by Jetlink145
UAL Vs. Delta Bashing:Who Gets It The Most? posted Thu Feb 1 2001 22:44:11 by QantasA330
What Will AA DL Aand NW Do If The UA/CO Combine? posted Mon Dec 18 2006 09:37:49 by AAden
Who Will Win In DL Vs. North American On JFK-ACC? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 01:50:28 by Atrude777
When Is The DL Vs Pilot Union Deadline? posted Mon Sep 13 2004 22:39:33 by ZASpringboks