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LOT Loss 1qtr 101M PLN - Cuts And Fleet Reduction?  
User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

SOURCE (polish):
http://www.dziennik.pl/gospodarka/ws...be_polaczen_i_zmniejsza_flote.html

most important points:
*1qtr loss doubled to roughly 30M Euros
*axing routes again (after previous cuts like WAW-Oslo, Venice and Dublin, Manchester and "suspended" PEK) like Stuttgart (LH just started operating this one), HAJ (thought this one is already axed), Kaliningrad.
*reducing frequency on WAW-HAM (GDN-HAM is already suspended)
*shutting down regional routes like KTW-MUC and GDN-MUC

*unofficial information quoted - some of the B737 may go..

Lot has only 6 735 and 2 or 3 B734
They got rid of 3 ERJ145 in the last month. Only 6 are left. Will they go sooner than expected either? In 2009 deliveries of 12 E75 are starting..

LOT seems to be in more serious trouble than expected
Any thoughts, insider infos?


Terra Incognita
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26900 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Shame to see LOT in this state. But im sure with some good decisions they can turn it around. Will the new E75's help them to cut costs due to more fuel efficiency? I presume some routes operated by 737' s will be replaced by these E75.

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4230 times:

I'm a bit surprised by those news. Poland is a large and economically growing country and the market should be there, despite the oil prices. How much political influence is left on LOT (Please forgive me my ignorance)?

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

LOT is supposed to be privatized in 2009 through the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Laws are to be passed so that the state can hold less than 51% of shares. Or rather amended because now LOT is recognized as a strategic company vital to the state's security. (No comment  Wink

Nowadays the state owns 68% of the shares, the liquidator of Swissair 25%, the rest are workers' shares.

So answering your question - yes, the impact of the state is enormous and the new cabinet did not change anything. The airline has no steady plans the CEOs change depending on the political winds.
On the other hand, because it is in majority state owned, there is a law that limits the salaries of the managers in Poland to if I reckon correctly - 5 times the average salary. so it would be 5*900 euro (maybe slightly less thanks to the appreciation of the Zloty - PLN)

So which manager with vision and a little bit passion for aviation is ready to earn less than a pilot and fight with unions and bureaucracy?

LOT did a few smart moves in the last years' time - the 787 and the ERJ.
Getting rid of the ERJ145 is also a good idea in my opinion.

But I fail to understand why buying 170 and 175? I don't remember any airline using both aircraft.
a mix of 170 and 190 or 175 and 195 would appear to me smarter.. adding a A320/A319 or B738/B737-700 plus B787..

at least they could temporary phase out the 737 and replace them with E90/95
seems logical if you have 2/3 B734

In my opinion Lot did improve their service (obviously on European routes)
the 767's are breaking down regularly and making a bad name for LOT in the press.
For that you can't only blame Boeing for the delays!
I know it's hard to acquire used 763 GE powered but it's only about 1-2 pieces..
I'm LOT will be trimming themselves and become an airline like Malev.

How come a 40 Million, booming country cannot support an airline not even as big as CSA? indolence?



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4089 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 3):
I'm LOT will be trimming themselves and become an airline like Malev.

How come a 40 Million, booming country cannot support an airline not even as big as CSA? indolence?

That's a good question. MA , OK and LO are small airlines in comparison to LH, BA, KL-AF and others. The current market doesn't seem to be able to support smaller carriers who have much higher fixed costs then larger airlines. Load factor doesnt seem to be the problem as most of the flights are full but still don't make any profit due to the ever increasing cost of operations.

As for LO's fleet, I fail to understand why LO is still operating classic B737s. The ERJs were a good choice but they do limit LO's flexibility of adding capacity when needed on some medium-haul flights. I think LO needs something bigger than the E175 but keeping a few B734s around is not the answer, as you suggested, a mix of E170 and E195s and perhaps 6 or so B738s would be perfect for LO's european network. The B787 delays are costing LO a lot of money and are causing a lot of problems on the long-haul flights. Wisely the B762s are leaving the fleet which will leave only 5 B763s to fly LO's numerous routes.

If LO is privatized then count on a much smaller LO in the years to come.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Getting rid of the old 737s would be a start. Replacing them with E-190/195 would allow for improved service and a better cost structure on those routes. Maybe some 738s too.

Centralwings was also an exercise in waste.

As to the widebody delays, I hope LOT will get some kind of help from Boeing here. At least toss in a new 767 so their long haul fleet isn't composed entirely of used and abused planes. (NOT saying they're unsafe, just worn out).

The most critical thing will be to get rid of state interferance. At the very least make the CEO position untouchable to the whims of politicians! The pay structure for management though...not bad. Keeps costs down and eliminates a point of resentment from Unions.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

KrisYYZ:

I wonder whether only 6 B738 would make economic sense to be operated.
Given high probability that C0 will focus only on ACMI and charter flights (low cost did not prove itself, except for a few routes).. This might happen:

1) C0 probably might be shut down after leases expire.. LOT doesn't look for replacements of the classics. They should learn the lesson from the 767.. It seems they don't bother to think that they might get stuck with 20 years old 737s

2) On the other hand it might be ok to buy 14 A320/B738 for the group if the new segment of operations for C0 would prove to be profitable.

Would cross my fingers for the second option.

Besides that a mix of E75/E95 seems to be perfect.

E70 takes 70 pax (@32'') aboard and the E75 82 (I guess a mix of 31'' and 32'')

If swapping the E70 would make economic sense, it would be a reasonable idea to have
* the E75 (densing a little bit to 82 pax @31'')
* and order E95s with 118 seats also @31''
*(738/320 with around 160 seats in LO variant)

I must admit that I don't know what shall be done with the turboprops...
the ATRs are OK on domestic routes, but horrible for flights longer than an hour.
The domestic routes are all around 300 km and were for years and years in red numbers.
The ATR are getting old and would need to be replaced also.
But it seems to me that a small airline like LO should keep costs down operating less A/C models.

KRK, KTW, GDN, WRO, POZ are not much weaker economically than WAW in my opinion - just smaller. So maybe the answer would be not to make a big hub in Warsaw..
(not possible until privatization - politics!) just take 4-5 cities and focus on the most important cities in Europe (WAW does serve only major cities anyway - so it's not a hub and will never be) adjusting frequency to the market demand.

This idea might prove itself even for Trans-Atlantic flights (vide: financial results of flights from KRK and Rzeszow) but on the other hand feeding flight to YYZ, EWR, JFK and ORD departing all around noon shouldn't be a bigger issue even without turboprops.

I guess abandoning business class on European legs would also be reasonable. Would *A allow it? It seems to me that only employees and M&M FF spending their miles use C on LO.

An other thing is the reservation system. LO and Poland is not LX or LH with lots of premium passengers. LO should sell flights like SAS. With a higher booking fee encouraging to buy RT tickets but OW for a fair price.

It all might seem to sound a little low cost, but LO failed to build a hub in WAW, lowcosts and LH are taking pax from regional airports.. travelling via WAW is a hassle and substantialy more expensive.
so point-to-point might be the answer plus limited feeding of WAW, FRA and MUC

any thoughts? Someone wants to borrow me a big sack stuffed with Euros next year?

cheers  Smile



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Ryanair are competing hard on the Polish market, I would suggest that LOT goes for a all Embraer fleet of E170-E195.

User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1241 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Isnt it also the same old problem of hubs as we see in Italy, Spain and Scandinavia. Location.

Warsaw is not in a perfect location to serve the country. Warsaw is further away from most of Europe making it hard to turn into a huge hub.
And when competitors offers good prices and faster connections plus flights in the right direction LOT has a problem.
Add on Ryanair/Wizzair eating away alot of the cheap labour traffic and Lot is in a tough spot.

Another thing, the Polish economy might have done well but alot has come through foreign investments and ownership of production capacity in Poland.
And what airlines does these foreign corporations and their production plants use?
Not Lot but rather the airline with which HQ has a contract.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

Well, the trainservice in Poland is oldfashioned and Eurolines the buscompany is definitly taking the low income travellers, Ryanair, Germanwings and Wizz surely are competing hard.

User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3888 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 7):
Alessandro From Sweden, joined Sep 2001, 4782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted Sat Aug 2 2008 19:48:11 your local time (25 minutes 15 secs ago) and read 23 times:

Ryanair are competing hard on the Polish market, I would suggest that LOT goes for a all Embraer fleet of E170-E195.

But they're struggling and suspending routes.. Krakow and Rzeszow..

Maybe a E75/E95 mix on EU routes would be enough..
But the yields for LOT are outside the EU.. don't mean China  Wink
but Moscow, Kiev, Minsk, Lwow, Tel Aviv.. those routes need bilateral governmental agreements.
Here a 738 would be justified due to limited available frequencies.
EU routes justifying 738 would be only LHR.
maybe CDG, ATH, FRA, MAD, BCN in season as subs or on certain OPs.



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3878 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 8):
snt it also the same old problem of hubs as we see in Italy, Spain and Scandinavia. Location.

Location if it comes to high yielding pax. Because LO could compete harder for Ukrainan pax departing for the USA. A lot of people and a business opportunity that will pay off in the future..
No other option in my opinion.. Flights from Rzeszow (for Western Ukraine), maybe with Ukrainian speaking Flight attendants..
And more flights connecting to WAW from the whole country.. If proves to be success why not reach further to the East?

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 8):
Another thing, the Polish economy might have done well but alot has come through foreign investments and ownership of production capacity in Poland.
And what airlines does these foreign corporations and their production plants use?
Not Lot but rather the airline with which HQ has a contract.

good point.. That's why no C class is needed on EU flights..

That's what Aer Lingus did.



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3693 times:



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 5):
As to the widebody delays, I hope LOT will get some kind of help from Boeing here. At least toss in a new 767 so their long haul fleet isn't composed entirely of used and abused planes. (NOT saying they're unsafe, just worn out).

When will the 787 arrive ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26900 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3678 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
When will the 787 arrive ?

That is the Million $$$ question.


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3654 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Thread starter):
axing routes again ... HAJ (thought this one is already axed),

According to amadeus.net, the last flights leaves HAJ on Wednesday 20-AUG-2008.
Too sad to see it go after only such a short time. Timings were pretty okay for business daytrips to WAW and there is no competition on that route.

This move spoils my travel plans for 2009, which up tp now saw me connecting flights in WAW. Flying HAJ to RZE now is back at a 2-transfer itinerary for a distance of 558 mi ...  Sad

At least, LO's timings were much more favourable than what C0 offered a few years ago between HAJ and WAW. And that EMB145 should have been easier to fill with good-yielding pax than the B734 operated by C0.

By bye LO @ HAJ
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3618 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 14):
According to amadeus.net, the last flights leaves HAJ on Wednesday 20-AUG-2008.
Too sad to see it go after only such a short time. Timings were pretty okay for business daytrips to WAW and there is no competition on that route.

Is there no sufficient demand on this route?
I read somewhere that eg. DUS is one of the big money-makers for LOT.. I have thought that Hannover is also a city where you could make good money on business traffic..Maybe I had this impression due to Wolfsburg (VW investing in Poznan) being not to far away?
Correct me if I'm wrong..
If the ERJ145 proved to be too big so after being phased out the E70 would make even more losses.
Anyway I would not be surprised if LH takes over this route in the future..

How about Stuttgart.. there is competition.. LH flies daily, and 4U twice weekly to Warsaw..



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3522 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 6):
2) On the other hand it might be ok to buy 14 A320/B738 for the group if the new segment of operations for C0 would prove to be profitable



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 6):
If swapping the E70 would make economic sense, it would be a reasonable idea to have
* the E75 (densing a little bit to 82 pax @31'')
* and order E95s with 118 seats also @31''
*(738/320 with around 160 seats in LO variant)

I still think that the B738 is a move viable option for LO. You make a good case about LO swapping the E95s for of the E75s but I still think that the E95 with 118 seats would be too small for some of LO's higher density routes, taking the retirement of the classic B737 into consideration. The B738 could be configured into all Y config for some flights and be reconfigured to accommodate C class seats if needed for specific flights.

I'm looking forward to seeing a shiny new B787 in LO's colours, but I must say that LO could have avoided a lot of problems if they would have ordered A32X/A332s for the interim until B787/A350s are readily available.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3457 times:



Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 16):

I still think that the B738 is a move viable option for LO

True.. LO never operated Airbus.. I would prefer A320 though..
But having 6 738 makes economical sense? on a 32'' an E95 could accomodate 108 pax. exactly as does the B735... still I want to stress that they have only 2 or 3 734 configured for 147 pax
On the other hand phasing out means more cost.. because some bigger jet will have to be introduced.

LO had their classics always in 6 abreast, I guess they reconfigured only for the pope  Wink

Economy, business is just separated by the movable courtain.. The same pitch except the first row.
I have flown recently on C on an E75, the service was good, but not much better than Y.. just warm meal..welcoming drink.. no plastics..
but you are still standing with all the Y pax on the crappy full bus waiting for all pax to get out of the "duty-free" shops..
I would rather pay business to be in the lounge! Wink

That's why I thought to abandon C on European Union + Switzerland routes.
Does anyone know if *A would allow it? Is this the reason why Aer Lingus left OW?

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 16):
I'm looking forward to seeing a shiny new B787 in LO's colours, but I must say that LO could have avoided a lot of problems if they would have ordered A32X/A332s for the interim until B787/A350s are readily available.

heck at least some 763!
I don't understand why they ordered only 787.. it would be smarter to get the 738 alongside to get better prices.. but I think $$ is the answer  Wink



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3423 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 15):
I have thought that Hannover is also a city where you could make good money on business traffic..Maybe I had this impression due to Wolfsburg (VW investing in Poznan) being not to far away?

Indeed, HAJ nowadays is not the typical location of lowcost traffic since X3 has scaled back (and still does by shutting down ORY and ARN by end of October) ops at HAJ and FR has opened up a base at rather nearby BRE.
LO offered quite good connections through WAW; only the rather late arrival back at HAJ could have influenced some peoples travel plans.
OTOH; I do not recall to ever having seen any noteable ads for LO locally, apart from a note on the airport's website and a ad on the airport's approach road. So LO apparently barely was in anybody's mind when making travel plans (okay, some website did show connections on LO with nonstop flights HAJ - WAW, but also often connections via both FRA (or MUC) and WAW were listed earlier i.e. at lower fares.

Strangely, LO's website was only considering LO flights to HAJ, but not a single flight on a fellow *A-member ... This did not help either.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3340 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
When will the 787 arrive ?

That is the Million $$$ question.

Correction, the million zloty question.

Anyone have a revised delivery schedule? I'm assuming late 2009.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

I would love if they order the CSeries, it has a good size and could be operated to routes such as Moscow, Kiev, Minsk and Tel Aviv for which the E70/90 would be too small and would not offer enough range.
As the CSeries is offered in two versions with different range this would be a good answer for Lot the small range version for European flights the long range version for Tel Aviv and Moscow.

[Edited 2008-08-04 02:28:49]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineMarcinGDN From Poland, joined Jun 2008, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3242 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 20):
I would love if they order the CSeries

they look really nice I must admit, I am not a fan of 5 abreast though..
110-130 pax is still too much and not enough to cover LOT's needs..
A 738 would be required and a 70 seater for domestic flights... maybe the Q400  Smile ?
With the oil prices a 70 seater jet might turn out to expensive anyway as did the ERJ145..
So I get your point exactly..

..with 16 E70/E75 and 12 E75 (delivery: 2009-2012) on order this will never happen though

When is LH scheduled to get their first C-Series AC? 2013?
Take into account the delays..
like:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 19):
Anyone have a revised delivery schedule? I'm assuming late 2009.

I thought it was supposed to be late 2010.. I hope that you are right Big grin

Quoting Columba (Reply 20):
E70/90 would be too small and would not offer enough range.

the E70 is operating some routes to Beirut.. not to far away from Tel Aviv  Wink
But you might be right because I've heard that it's more a cargo OP than pax. Maybe the limited weight allows for the OP. The prices are outragious!
eg. 13.08-21.08 - 2700 PLN (1Euro = 3,2 PLN)



Terra Incognita
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1874 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3218 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):


Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
When will the 787 arrive ?

That is the Million $$$ question.

From what I have heard, May 2010 is the first delivery.
Now, can I have my million bucks?? Big grin Big grin



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3216 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 21):
110-130 pax is still too much and not enough to cover LOT's needs..
A 738 would be required and a 70 seater for domestic flights... maybe the Q400 Smile ?

What exactly is the 738 needed for? They currently operate only two 734 with 147 seats and not amazing LF. C-series is as big as LOT needs to go.

Also, they already have 70 seater for domestic routes - ATR72.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3180 times:



Quoting MarcinGDN (Reply 10):
But they're struggling and suspending routes.. Krakow and Rzeszow..

Maybe a E75/E95 mix on EU routes would be enough..
But the yields for LOT are outside the EU.. don't mean China
but Moscow, Kiev, Minsk, Lwow, Tel Aviv.. those routes need bilateral governmental agreements.
Here a 738 would be justified due to limited available frequencies.
EU routes justifying 738 would be only LHR.
maybe CDG, ATH, FRA, MAD, BCN in season as subs or on certain OPs.

Well, from the capital to Tel-Aviv it´s still enough range for the E170-E195 aircrafts.


25 Boeing4ever : I would have hoped LOT would have been smarter with the delay penalty clauses and insisted on interim lift...the result of having politically determi
26 MillwallSean : One thing I noticed now when I had a look at (just one sector so this might be a special case - but I do think it can be applied more generally) forei
27 MarcinGDN : Regarding the 738 - in my posts I was presuming that C0 will cease low-cost operations, and the most successful will be taken over by LO (which will
28 KrisYYZ : AFAIK, There is a significant back-log of Q400 orders. So even if LO ordered Q400s soon they would most likely not be available for a few years which
29 MarcinGDN : How about KTW-Turin? Wasn't it established for FIAT's needs? From Warsaw there are anyway only 30 destinations in the EU+CH. For some pax like HT.. l
30 BlueSky1976 : It will actually be sooner than later. There is a strong business market developing as we speak. MTU is building up its manufacturing site, BorgWarne
31 MarcinGDN : I've been reading this forum for at least 2 years before I have joined (I have vacations now - that explains the amount of my posts in this tread) an
32 Warszawa : Flying to RZE has long been a hassle for me, because you always have to fly LOT (virtual monopoly there), through WAW. Flying through WAW and to RZE
33 HT : Good to hear. Let's hope that a LH-presence at RZE really comes into fruition. A single daily rotation from MUC on a CRJ200 to start with should be v
34 BlueSky1976 : If LO strived to maintain the quality level of onboard service on their transatlantic flights it had in late 1990s, I would not be bashing it. I can
35 MarcinGDN : I am neither against privatization or foreign ownership of the airline. I would not even really mind LH acquiring 100% of stocks. (I would prefer an
36 BlueSky1976 : No, I mean government ownership, which basically causes the management of LO to be made of friends of the political party in charge at the moment, in
37 StarGoldLHR : I could not agree more... I fly to poland several times a year from the UK and none of this is warsaw I'm surprised FR gave up KRK and RZE for the wi
38 MarcinGDN : Clear - that's a pathology - it happens in every Polish state company, doesn't it? But what does it have to do with your tax money? LO was subsidized
39 MarcinGDN : could not agree more or the baby (C0) for charter ops. LO and BD behave similarly - old classics are left for the baby. And it loses money. do you me
40 Post contains links MarcinGDN : LOT's 1st half loss: 130M PLN/E40M (1st qtr 101M PLN) http://www.rp.pl/artykul/5,172354.html *LOT's 1st half loss in 2007 1M PLN *introduction to Wars
41 Cubsrule : Maybe... but LO has a problem. It's catering to three groups 1) Business passengers (who are going all over the place) 2) VFR traffic (also going all
42 BlueSky1976 : Well, it was in the middle of Summer peak season (I was flying in August), maybe that will help you. I'm sure if it was in late September, I'd have n
43 Columba : The ATR 72-500 would also be an option and it would be cheaper for LT as they already have trained personal for ATRs and they could make a good deal
44 MarcinGDN : But in terms of aglomeration it would be: first KTW, than WAW (even with LDZ I suppose) and GDN... sure.. I was just hinting that they might go all B
45 Cubsrule : Agreed. WAW is also the only airport in Poland with the facilities for a proper hub. 'Metro' Katowice is slightly larger than Warsaw but smaller than
46 MarcinGDN : the thing I dont like in LO: there's a big sale now for tickets for 400 pln eg. waw-prg 20.08-28.08 and gdn-prg via waw: the same date (the cheapest =
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