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Something Was Amiss At YYZ Today  
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Hi

I was at YYZ today evening (~7 PM) for spotting. Seemed like a busy slot for ladings / takeoffs on Rwy 23. Within the span of 40 mins. there were two go-arounds. First one was barely 5-7 seconds before touchdown and eveyone is gawking at this and the AC plane ready for take off run. All of a sudden we hear engines roar back into life and off it goes (WestJet 737 (?) ) . Then another 30-40 mins same thing...this time with WestJet 763 I think. But luckily this was further down (approx 10-15 seconds from runway) and was again due to traffic on runway.

I know go-arounds are normal but do they happen that frequently at an airport??

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[Edited 2008-08-04 20:21:04]


Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineComairGuyCVG From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2606 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Thread starter):
WestJet 763

Did they upgrade??


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2593 times:



Quoting ComairGuyCVG (Reply 1):
Did they upgrade??

Sorry I am not really good at identifying the aircraft as yet. I thought it looked like 767 but could be 757?? I don't know.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting Phoenix9 (Thread starter):
I was at YYZ today evening (~7 PM) for spotting. Seemed like a busy slot for ladings / takeoffs on Rwy 23. Within the span of 40 mins. there were two go-arounds. First one was barely 5-7 seconds before touchdown and eveyone is gawking at this and the AC plane ready for take off run. All of a sudden we hear engines roar back into life and off it goes (WestJet 737 (?) ) . Then another 30-40 mins same thing...this time with WestJet 763 I think. But luckily this was further down (approx 10-15 seconds from runway) and was again due to traffic on runway.

I was at YYZ today, and there was nothing odd about this situation.

It's not abnormal for a go-around to occur.

When the traffic is busy, there's lots of things that can preciptate a go-around situation.

In both situations it was a WS 737.

Nothing odd at all.

If you are ever at YYZ when they use 15L, you'll see go-arounds almost for sure. there's only 2 exit points to the runway, and if u miss the first one, you have to travel almost all the way down the runway to get off, and it often precipitates overshoots.

No alarmbells need be sounded here  

Quoting ComairGuyCVG (Reply 1):
Did they upgrade??

Nope. They've had the 737-600 for a while though, perhaps he meant 736

They fly -700's, -800's and -600's

1011yyz

[Edited 2008-08-04 20:33:08]


Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2564 times:



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 3):
Quoting ComairGuyCVG (Reply 1):
Did they upgrade??

Nope. They've had them for a while.

They fly -700's, -800's and -600's

You missed the reference to 763 in the original posting. That's the code for the 767-300 which WestJet obviously don't operate. That's what "upgrade" in Reply 1 was referring to.


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2554 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

You missed the reference to 763 in the original posting. That's the code for the 767-300 which WestJet obviously don't operate. That's what "upgrade" in Reply 1 was referring to.

yeah, I went back and changed my post  Wink

I recognized my error in misidentifying it. LOL

Thanks though!

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2539 times:



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 3):
It's not abnormal for a go-around to occur.

Yes I understand that. But what I was reffering to was the fact that the two were in very short duration (within 30-40 mins of the first). Maybe this is normal too



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2536 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 6):
Yes I understand that. But what I was reffering to was the fact that the two were in very short duration (within 30-40 mins of the first). Maybe this is normal too

I'ts not abnormal.

I was there on saturday and saw 3 late go-arounds in a row on 05.

No biggie  Smile Just enjoy it, and wish you were on board to experience it!

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2499 times:



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 7):
wish you were on board to experience it!

I wish that too! But this was a site from the groud as well...as soon as the engined powered up and the planes started to climb....lots of gasps and surprised looks were all around. Kinda funny to see though.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Don't see too many go arounds at YVR. They seem to have it under control, though you do see (or rather hear of) them during bad fog conditions. I have seen an evening BA 747 go around and that was pretty neat, even though it was a little ways from touch down... They do however cut them close at times during rush hour...

User currently offlineAmritpal From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2309 times:



Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 9):

As you said, it doesn't happen often at YVR. I remember seeing/listeing to one. A westjet aircraft had a bird strike after landing midways on 26R. He reported it and right after that ATC adviced approaching Jazz to go-around and he later landed on 26L. That was actually the first time I saw a go-around and it looked and sounded amazing. Having said that, I can understand it can be little stressful for passengers.



Lost in Translation
User currently offlineAviators99 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2238 times:



Quoting Amritpal (Reply 10):
Having said that, I can understand it can be little stressful for passengers.

...and pilots...and airline accountants...


User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2174 times:



Quoting Phoenix9 (Thread starter):
know go-arounds are normal but do they happen that frequently at an airport??

There is work going on at the approach end of 23 that entails a temporary displaced threshold..
This may have had something to do with those go-arounds,


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1983 times:



Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 12):
There is work going on at the approach end of 23 that entails a temporary displaced threshold..
This may have had something to do with those go-arounds,

I thought it was being done around 15L approach...but I could be wrong. It was quite surprising that the first jet got clearance for landing while there was a WestJet bird lined up for takeoff.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

YVR doesn't have the volume that YYZ has at peak times so it is more rare to have go arounds there. Typically as well one runway is for departure and one is for arrivals.

Where as YYZ often has three runways in operation simultaneously. 24L and 24R have fewer go arounds as arrival and departure aircraft are on different runways.

On 23 if a departing flight is a bit slower hitting the throttles and the arriving aircraft gets too close to the runway before the departing aircraft has left the ground, then a pilot or tower will call a go round. Likewise if an arriving aircraft misses its planned exit and needs to go to the end it takes more time. Typically the aircraft has missed a highspeed taxiway which gets them off the runway quicker. High speed taxiways are at a closer angle to the runway so the aircraft doesn't have to slow as much to negotiate them. The aircraft taking the full runway and going to the end not only needs to travel the extra distance but it has to take the turn at the end of the runway slower because it is a 90 degree turn.

Once the arriving aircraft passes by the next aircraft to depart on the taxiway, the departing aircraft is cleared into position and is sitting on the runway ready for departure. You often hear the tower tell the pilot to keep throttles up or be prepared for an "immediate". That is so as soon as the arriving aircraft turns onto a taxiway they can release the brakes.

Minimum separation of aircraft has to be respected at all times. When you add up the seconds between the above it can add up to a go around. There often is a bit of fault on the part of more than one aircraft and the ATC has the flights at a very close spacing.

My favourite go round was returning from DCA to YYZ on a CRJ with AC. This was prior to 9/11 and occasionally the door to the cockpit was left open. The CRJ flies with a nose down posture to just prior to flare. So if you were on the aisle and leaned out a bit you had a great approach view to the airport and runway ahead. The pilot came on and said he thought the spacing was particularly tight and that there was a KLM MD11 "lollygagging" so he said to be prepared for a go round. Sure enough he hit the throttles as you could clearly see the MD11 just turning into position on 5R (before the parallel runway was finished on the south side). The pilot came on and related what the ATC had said. The KLM guy was cleared to position and had to have a second ATC call to procede to position before he responded. He was then taxi-ing particularly slow. ATC asked him if he had a problem because he seemed distracted and going so slow and KLM answered no . He was cleared for an immediate departure but took so long getting into position that we needed to go round. ATC gave him some pretty curt comments. The arrivals sequence was so tight it took us 20 more minutes to get back into sequence and land. The pilot came on a jokingly said if KLM is still on the runway we are "gonna piggy back him to the gate."


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