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Lots Of Rumors From NGO (fly On Wall)  
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Last night I had the pleasure of eating dinner with some business people in Nagoya.

Lots of Airline and Aerospace conversation floating around. So not to cause problems I blur some names and I do not state the person who said it. The people I was with are business leaders with high responsibility in their company.

Remember these are rumors but came from people in those companies or are associated with those projects.

Big news
Certain popular Southeast Asian carrier that currently operates A380 might cancel their A350 order in favor of ..... A330s!!!!! Had to ask the man I talked with twice to make sure this was not a mistake.

Other News
Eva's chairman is looking to approach OneWorld. Reason: China Airlines is with Skyteam and Star has Too many Asian Power house carriers. But he is still keeping the Star option open.

Eva also had tried to negotiate a move to fly TPE-NGO-West Coast as well as TPE-KIX-LAX but was not able to make it work.

EK has already started kissing up with Tokyo Narita for slots once the new runway opens. When this happens NGO will get cut or heavily reduced.

When UA informed NGO that they were pulling out, NGO started clamoring to find a US carrier to fill the gap to the west coast. Delta was approached and ... to use the term that we heard...begged to serve NGO. But due to their current fleet and the merger they are uncommitted. Others approached were NW, US, AA (been there) and CO (been there).

Aircraft manufacturing
MRJ is being called the M-Jet among those working on the project.
ILFC has approached Mitsubishi to discuss possible purchasing of the aircraft.
Most engineers that I talked with were still baffled as to why MHI is not using Carbon fiber on the aircraft.
One comment from a man in trade said, "If it isn't a government contract or a sub-contract, Mitsubishi can't sell it."

So I was a fly on a wall and learned many things.
(SQ person gave me an A380 cell phone strap....sweet.)


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4703 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Certain popular Southeast Asian carrier that currently operates A380 might cancel their A350 order in favor of ..... A330s!!!!! Had to ask the man I talked with twice to make sure this was not a mistake.

Singapore canceling A350? That is interesting. I remember them saying that 787s will be used on regional routes only. Guess not. The 787 seems like a great long haul plane anyways. Looks like SQ's 777-200 replacement is solely the A330-300. Gosh that plane is selling fast.

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
EK has already started kissing up with Tokyo Narita for slots once the new runway opens. When this happens NGO will get cut or heavily reduced.

This new runway is basically an extension of the existing north runway?


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4689 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Certain popular Southeast Asian carrier that currently operates A380 might cancel their A350 order in favor of ..... A330s!!!!!

That is indeed deserving of five exclamations marks! Didn't that certain carrier also take a few options on A330s when they leased them? I could see more A333s (and would love to!) but why drop the A350?  Confused


User currently offlineNicholaschee From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4662 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Big news
Certain popular Southeast Asian carrier that currently operates A380 might cancel their A350 order in favor of ..... A330s!!!!! Had to ask the man I talked with twice to make sure this was not a mistake.

This is interesting. More 77Ws instead?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4636 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Eva's chairman is looking to approach OneWorld. Reason: China Airlines is with Skyteam and Star has Too many Asian Power house carriers. But he is still keeping the Star option open.

Being so close to HKG, what impact would BR joining Oneworld have on both airlines? I would think that CX would oppose this. At least with Star their would-be allies are located further away (TG, SQ, NH).



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5311 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4586 times:



Quoting Nicholaschee (Reply 3):

This is interesting. More 77Ws instead?

789s anyone? Maybe more 77Ws now and 789s later?


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4574 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
EK has already started kissing up with Tokyo Narita for slots once the new runway opens. When this happens NGO will get cut or heavily reduced.

That's probably because the current Japan-UAE bilaterals have limited number of frequencies. If the frequencies are expanded there maybe hope for KIX and NGO at EK. Still KIX & NGO will probably get downgauged to a A332 and NRT will be served by the A388 or 77W from the get go.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4475 times:



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 5):
789s anyone? Maybe more 77Ws now and 789s later?

Actually the guy said that they are heavily considering the 787-10, but then again who isn't.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4198 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Big news
Certain popular Southeast Asian carrier that currently operates A380 might cancel their A350 order in favor of ..... A330s!!!!! Had to ask the man I talked with twice to make sure this was not a mistake.

Hopefully we don't get too caught up in this "maybe".  Smile This is no end to the teasing of emotions on this board. When SQ turns around and exercises A350 options, more than a few people could "maybe" have a coronary!

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4035 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
Being so close to HKG, what impact would BR joining Oneworld have on both airlines? I would think that CX would oppose this. At least with Star their would-be allies are located further away (TG, SQ, NH).

Well, by that logic, CZ would be opposing CI joining SkyTeam, but that isn't the case. I'm sure AA and QF won't mind if BR joined.



This is my signature.
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4010 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
When UA informed NGO that they were pulling out, NGO started clamoring to find a US carrier to fill the gap to the west coast. Delta was approached and ... to use the term that we heard...begged to serve NGO. But due to their current fleet and the merger they are uncommitted. Others approached were NW, US, AA (been there) and CO (been there).

My uninformed opinion would be that of these NW is the most likely option... they could start SEA-NGO with the 787, with easy connections on NW and AS out of SEA. Just my $.02.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8325 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3813 times:
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Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 10):
My uninformed opinion would be that of these NW is the most likely option

NW flies Detroit to Nagoya with a daily 744.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3788 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 11):
NW flies Detroit to Nagoya with a daily 744.

They wanted a carrier to fly to the West Coast. In which case, when UA ceases SFO-NGO, no one will be flying NGO-West Coast.


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3759 times:



Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 12):
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 11):
NW flies Detroit to Nagoya with a daily 744.

They wanted a carrier to fly to the West Coast. In which case, when UA ceases SFO-NGO, no one will be flying NGO-West Coast.

I nearly said the same thing, and then I re-read the original post. Still, NW seems most likely to me.

CO-unlikely at best
DL-wrong equipment
AA-possible I suppose
US-forget about it
UA-just canned it


User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3759 times:

They approached US. They are desperate, the last stab at that service was a disaster for HP.

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Though not pertaining just to NGO, but NH & JL are planning to drop or reduce close to 30 routes. There is a rumor that JL will abandon the NGO-FUK route to concentrate out of Komaki.
The large majority of dropped routes will be from KIX. There is a rumor than KIX-LHR will be axed.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3528 times:



Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
There is a rumor than KIX-LHR will be axed.

This is still rumored? I thought it was official. Interesting. Would they sell the LHR slot?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3466 times:



Quoting Anonms (Reply 9):
Well, by that logic, CZ would be opposing CI joining SkyTeam, but that isn't the case. I'm sure AA and QF won't mind if BR joined.

CZ has the entire China market because CI being Taiwanese wouldn't have any routes to China.

BR joining Oneworld wouldn't affect QF or AA like it would CX. What similar routes do they share? BR is cutting down on Asia-Pacific. They fly routes to places like LAX which would put them in very close competition with CX, and with people with high FF status on BR may leech from CX or v/v.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3425 times:



Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
There is a rumor that JL will abandon the NGO-FUK route to concentrate out of Komaki.

Logical. NKM is more accessible for the 1 day trip which is the majority of traffic between the cities. NGO is good for connecting international, but JL has few international routes at NGO that don't exist at FUK. NGO also doesn't have many OneWorld partners to maybe make it worth while.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
CZ has the entire China market because CI being Taiwanese wouldn't have any routes to China.

Something the BR guy said was that after the Olympics Taiwanese carriers will be able to have regular flights to the Mainland. Limited but regular. This means that CI joining Skyteam and CZ in skyteam could have problems but not as much as BR joining Oneworld effecting CX.

CZ has a good domestic China Market and a good Asia market, not so strong Long Haul.
CI has good regional Asia market, but not strong at Long Haul. And until Cross Strait relations are good enough for Taiwan and Chinese carriers to go often, having a partner would be good.
CI's biggest Skyteam overlap is KE but still it would not hurt.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3411 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):
Being so close to HKG, what impact would BR joining Oneworld have on both airlines? I would think that CX would oppose this. At least with Star their would-be allies are located further away (TG, SQ, NH).



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
BR joining Oneworld wouldn't affect QF or AA like it would CX.

Instead of thinking what effect EVA will have on Cathay, why would they be admitted in the first place?

It has a mini transpac hub at Taipei but the routes that feed this hub are weak. The transpac routes are all very well covered by Cathay with multiple departures each day to each destination. The only destination not served is Seattle. Not enough a reason for EVA to get into the oneWorld bed. EVA has also minimal presence in OZ/NZ.

What is EVA bringing into oneworld that has not already been offered by either JAL or Cathay? It simply does not add anything to the alliance. There is no business case here I'm afraid. No disrespect to EVA which is a good carrier.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3377 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 19):
What is EVA bringing into oneworld that has not already been offered by either JAL or Cathay? It simply does not add anything to the alliance. There is no business case here I'm afraid. No disrespect to EVA which is a good carrier.

AA and QF seem to see some value. Otherwise, why bother codesharing with BR when partners such as CX and JL are already in the same alliance?



This is my signature.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3349 times:



Quoting Anonms (Reply 20):
AA and QF seem to see some value.

How much extra value will they get from BR that they can't already get with CX? Have they stated this? And why do they need their passengers who are trying to get to USA to go through Taiwan - wouldn't it be easier to go direct from Australia? And for AA - CX has a much wider range of connecting destinations so that incoming passengers would be well catered for. What use is BR to the alliance? There's just no point in this. Another (very hypothetical) example would be QR asking EK to form an alliance or MH thinking about joining Star Alliance.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3321 times:



Quoting Anonms (Reply 20):
AA and QF seem to see some value. Otherwise, why bother codesharing with BR when partners such as CX and JL are already in the same alliance?

AA only codeshares on the EVA transpac flights to Taipei, not beyond. Only reason is for their passengers to avoid a backtrack from Hong Kong. All other through traffic is routed through Hong Kong. That's the only value EVA has for AA.

Same for Qantas. Only codesharing on the Brisbane flight. Everything else is routed through Hong Kong. Minimal value there.

Still not enough justification to admit EVA into OW.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3318 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 21):
How much extra value will they get from BR that they can't already get with CX? Have they stated this? And why do they need their passengers who are trying to get to USA to go through Taiwan - wouldn't it be easier to go direct from Australia? And for AA - CX has a much wider range of connecting destinations so that incoming passengers would be well catered for. What use is BR to the alliance? There's just no point in this. Another (very hypothetical) example would be QR asking EK to form an alliance or MH thinking about joining Star Alliance.

Don't ask me, ask AA and QF; they already have codeshares with BR. AA codeshares from the west coast to TPE and from TPE to various points in SE Asia. Why they can't stick with CX for those, I don't know. QF codeshares on BNE-TPE. Why they can't just codeshare with CX on HKG-TPE, I don't know, either. That said, BR does codeshare with *A carriers, too. But I think their codeshares with AA are more extensive than what they have with CO.



This is my signature.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

NH just announced the axing of the daily NGO-TPE with the 73G.
Other than that, NH has kept NGO mostly in tact.
For KIX, it's a slightly different story: many cuts.
JL should announce their plans this week.


25 B747-4U3 : Well, the same could be said for CI in Skyteam. The only areas where they add to Skyteam is from North America to Asia and from North Asia to South E
26 Centrair : That was short lived. Makes me wonder.
27 Nicholaschee : Anything about NH's A380s?
28 Cloudyapple : So there's nothing in it for EVA then? I'm sure these passengers are probably better off be on Asiamiles than EVA's FFP. Still no incentive for EVA.
29 B747-4U3 : Well, clearly EVA think there is. I suspect, increased co-operation with AA is the main reason for BR wanting to join oneworld (just as AA was one of
30 Ktachiya : Oh yes, this is confirmed, the NGO boss told me this....... Too bad JL is doing so bad at the moment. I think once all those gas guzzling B747 classi
31 Centrair : It is a good way but not the best way for those needing to go to the West Coast. Most of Nagoya's biggest business dealings are in LA and Seattle the
32 Carpethead : A large chunk fly onwards to Tokyo (HND) by JL because EK doesn't fly there.
33 Centrair : They have a nice agreement for flying pax to connect to EK at NGO as well. That HND connection makes it work nicely as well. I bet EK is already push
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