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TAM Fleet Reaches 116 Airplanes  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8629 times:

TAM received over this weekend 2 A320 adn 2 A319 all of the 4 are brand new delivered directly from Toulouse and Hamburg bringing the fleet of the airline to number 116 airplanes divided as follows:

17 x A319
76 x A320
3 x A321
12 x A330
2 x A340
2 x B767-300
3 x MD-11
1 x F100 (to be phased out soon)

In the coming month of July TAM will receive 4 x B777-300 which will replace the MD-11s plus 2 additional A330 to reinforce its international expansion.

TAM expects to reach the end of 2008 with 123 airplanes and the end of 2009 with 147 airplanes. TAM is the biggest airline of Latin America and in fact the no. 1 airline of the Southern Hemisphere.

Rgs,

229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

Excellent - they're becoming a good-sized airline.

If they're going to have 123 planes by the end of this year what else are they expecting:

In:

4 777s
2 A330s

Out

3 MD11
1 F100

I'm guessing a further few A319/A320?

Does anyone think that they might order or lease a few A380s?


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8568 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
17 x A319
76 x A320
3 x A321
12 x A330
2 x A340
2 x B767-300
3 x MD-11
1 x F100

Great mix! Does anyone know where the MD-11 will go? I saw the A340-500 in FRA recently and they look awesome!  Smile


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8547 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
TAM is the biggest airline of Latin America and in fact the no. 1 airline of the Southern Hemisphere.

What about Qantas?



Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8457 times:



Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 3):
What about Qantas?

QF is second, after TAM.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 2):
Great mix! Does anyone know where the MD-11 will go? I saw the A340-500 in FRA recently and they look awesome!

The information I have is that they will be converted into cargo.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
If they're going to have 123 planes by the end of this year what else are they expecting:

In:

4 777s
2 A330s

Out

3 MD11
1 F100

I'm guessing a further few A319/A320?

This leaves a balance of 118 meaning TAM is expected to receive additional five airplanes by the end of the year.

We already know that the B767s will be used to operate GIG-MIA and MAO-MIA, while GIG-JFK is due to be announced soon (B767 or A330). The additional A330s will ensure TAM converts MAD to red-eye both legs, while the B77Ws will be used to operate GRU-LHR and GRU-FRA, freeing 2 A345 now used in FRA to replace the MD-11 in MXP, which will also be converted to red-eye both legs.

Rgs,


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8453 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
17 x A319
76 x A320
3 x A321

Wow, TAM has become a very big a32X operator, with 96 already.

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
12 x A330
2 x A340
2 x B767-300
3 x MD-11

Their long haul fleet is a mess at the moment (fantastic for spotters though  Wink ). I suppose they can't wait to receive the 777's so that the a345's, 763's and MD11's can go, to give them a more streamlined long haul fleet.

[Edited 2008-08-05 05:09:20]


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8396 times:
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Can't wait until teh 777-300ER's arrive. TAM should have orders for 10 777's, A330-200 are great efficient planes but small for the only Brazilian Flag airline since Varig's comeback didn't go any where.

User currently offlineJmbarros12 From Brazil, joined Nov 2007, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8393 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
Can't wait until teh 777-300ER's arrive

Three of them can be seem in one picture at microvoltradio.com.

http://www.microvoltradio.com/images/kpae3828.jpg

PT-MUA is in the right corner, PT-MUB is in the middle and PT-MUC is taking off in the left corner of the picture.

Fantastic!

Sds,

João Marcelo



Go Boeing!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8367 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
A330-200 are great efficient planes but small for the only Brazilian Flag airline since Varig's comeback didn't go any where.

TAM signed firm contract for 22 A350 XWBs.

http://www.mzweb.com.br/tam/web/arquivos/TAM_PR_20080121_eng.pdf

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8298 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
TAM should have orders for 10 777's, A330-200 are great efficient planes but small for the only Brazilian Flag airline since Varig's comeback didn't go any where.

In fact TAM has bought 8 77W so they are closer to your comment.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8265 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
QF is second, after TAM.

Qantas has
30 744s
14 A330s
29 763s
54 737s

Total 127, plus other aircraft with subsidiaries. Correct?

TAM may have more flights, but Qantas may have more seats and more asms.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8253 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
Qantas has
30 744s
14 A330s
29 763s
54 737s

Total 127, plus other aircraft with subsidiaries. Correct?

TAM may have more flights, but Qantas may have more seats and more asms.

TAM also handles more passengers per year. In fact, the measure which lead to the conclusion that TAM is the biggest airline in the Southern Hemisphere was according to a study by the consulting firm Bain & Company. The study highlights an average of 21,800 operations/month and passengers volume of 2.251 million/month in the last year, which all are above QF numbers.

Rgs,
typo

[Edited 2008-08-05 07:45:15]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8236 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
TAM also handles more passengers per year. In fact, the measure which lead to the conclusion that TAM is the biggest airline in the Southern Hemisphere was according to a study by the consulting firm Bain & Company. The study highlights an average of 21,800 operations/month and passengers volume of 2.251 million/month in the last year, which all are above QF numbers.

Right, and the reason for that is the strong Brazilian Domestic Market. QF is strong in international travel which means more long hauls while TAM fleet is 85% for domestic and South America short hall flights. TAM has situations like 6 A319 dedicated to SDU-CGH shuttle service which alone accounts for more than 2,000,000 pax a yer.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8223 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):

Right, and the reason for that is the strong Brazilian Domestic Market. QF is strong in international travel which means more long hauls while TAM fleet is 85% for domestic and South America short hall flights. TAM has situations like 6 A319 dedicated to SDU-CGH shuttle service which alone accounts for more than 2,000,000 pax a yer.

Right. The thing that I consider to be a worthy criteria to judge the size of a carrier is flown seat-kilometers (or seat-miles). There, QF will certainly be bigger.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8221 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
Right, and the reason for that is the strong Brazilian Domestic Market. QF is strong in international travel which means more long hauls while TAM fleet is 85% for domestic and South America short hall flights. TAM has situations like 6 A319 dedicated to SDU-CGH shuttle service which alone accounts for more than 2,000,000 pax a yer

You point is relevant and correct.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 13):
There, QF will certainly be bigger

This is very subjective, which is why I referred to an independ study carried out by Bain & Company which concluded that TAM is no. 1 in Southern Hemisphere.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7523 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8116 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
I suppose they can't wait to receive the 777's so that the a345's, 763's and MD11's can go, to give them a more streamlined long haul fleet.

I guess the right replacement for the MD-11 is the 777-300ER, whereas the right replacement for the 767-300ER is the A330-200. Eventually, I suppose JJ will move to an-all A350XWB fleet for long haul.

I wonder how longer the A340-500s will be with JJ. Such a beautiful airplane!

On July 8th, I flew GRU-JFK (the daylight flight) and as I walked towards the gate at GRU, I saw the nose of the plane that would serve the route that day and I saw an Airbus nose and lots of signatures on the white paint... my heart skipped a beat as I thought it was the A345 doing JFK for some strange reason (crew familiarization or whatnot) but upon closer inspection I realized it was a twin-engined bird  Sad

While the plane was not brand-new, it was in a very good state of repair overall, and the flight was great: cute and young flight attendants (it was an almost all-girl crew I believe), good (for coach) food, light passenger load, emergency exit row for me, and a quite decent IFE. If only JJ had chosen to align itself with SkyTeam or oneworld rather than Star Alliance!!!



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently onlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2693 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8073 times:

Congrats to TAM. Definitely now the largest Latin American carrier in terms of size. I think the biggest Varig got was at 80 aircraft? Can someone remind me.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8034 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
I saw the nose of the plane that would serve the route that day and I saw an Airbus nose and lots of signatures on the white paint... my heart skipped a beat as I thought it was the A345 doing JFK for some strange reason (crew familiarization or whatnot) but upon closer inspection I realized it was a twin-engined bird

PT-MVG !

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
While the plane was not brand-new, it was in a very good state of repair overall, and the flight was great: cute and young flight attendants (it was an almost all-girl crew I believe), good (for coach) food, light passenger load, emergency exit row for me, and a quite decent IFE. If only JJ had chosen to align itself with SkyTeam or oneworld rather than Star Alliance!!!

I like this daylight flight to reach JFK in the afternoon. It's never so crowded and in general i fly alone on First Class. For me even better as it's a quick connect from GIG, even being a 6:15 am flight !

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 16):
Congrats to TAM. Definitely now the largest Latin American carrier in terms of size. I think the biggest Varig got was at 80 aircraft? Can someone remind me.

Varig by the time RG merge with Rio-Sul and Nordeste regional carriers they got IIRC 132 planes but they just a few months later they begin to return planes.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8023 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
If they're going to have 123 planes by the end of this year what else are they expecting:

Well, I don't know what about my Brazilian friends, but for the size and economic potential of a country like Brazil, TAM should be expecting to dramatically expand and double its current fleet in just a very few years from now.

Best regards



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2169 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8019 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
This is very subjective, which is why I referred to an independ study carried out by Bain & Company which concluded that TAM is no. 1 in Southern Hemisphere.

Yes, one can be #1 in something and someone else can be #1 in something else. No matters what, JJ is #1 in flights, and they seem to handle it well and grow, so, that's what counts at the end.
Being #1 by number of airplanes is not necessarily an enviable situation if there is no healthy market to fill them while making a profit (look at AA). Neither #1 in flights.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7919 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting XA744 (Reply 18):
Well, I don't know what about my Brazilian friends, but for the size and economic potential of a country like Brazil, TAM should be expecting to dramatically expand and double its current fleet in just a very few years from now.

The problem is the limitations in several airports as well as they need a smaller plane to get traffic from mid-size city's with expanded industrial activity like SJC (Embraer and the largest airspace center in South America) MEA (Petrobras and the largest oil city in Brazil) and several others.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7815 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
While the plane was not brand-new, it was in a very good state of repair overall, and the flight was great: cute and young flight attendants (it was an almost all-girl crew I believe), good (for coach) food, light passenger load, emergency exit row for me, and a quite decent IFE. If only JJ had chosen to align itself with SkyTeam or oneworld rather than Star Alliance!!!

Provided the flight is not late or with operational delays, right? I must say TAM still has a lot of work to accomplish to become a top quality airline and the lack of onboard product harmonisation and poor ground services are among them.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 16):
I think the biggest Varig got was at 80 aircraft?

As mentioned by Lipe, RG, SL and Nordeste had combined reach fleet number of 135 aircraft. RG international market share was also much bigger than TAM current international market share vis-a-vis foreign airlines. TAM in the domestic market faces tough competition of GOL. RG, by contrast, also had competition in the international market with TR and VP running international routes.

I still remember TR operated the B767-300ER FOR-AMS which was just great as it allowed for convenient connection to BSB. The route started in 1995 and ended in 1999.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
like this daylight flight to reach JFK in the afternoon. It's never so crowded and in general i fly alone on First Class. For me even better as it's a quick connect from GIG, even being a 6:15 am flight !

I also like daylight flights such as KL AMS-GRU, but we are exception to the rule. The problem of TAM daylight to JFK, as you said, is that the connecting flight leaves GIG very early at 6.15am, but then you have time to rest during the flight. Departing GRU in the morning is also better than in the evening, even TAM lounges are less crowded.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 18):
Well, I don't know what about my Brazilian friends, but for the size and economic potential of a country like Brazil, TAM should be expecting to dramatically expand and double its current fleet in just a very few years from now.

We will continue to see TAM expanding strongly adding aircraft every month or so. By 2009 TAM will have about 150 airplanes.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7523 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7697 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
Provided the flight is not late or with operational delays, right?

Yeah, unfortunately JJ gave me a lot of headaches and I was somewhat disappointed. I like to think all these issues are a result of their rapid expansion and that all these problems will be ironed out with the passage of time.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineVoar From Canada, joined Jul 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7681 times:

Congratulations to TAM! I didn't realize how fast they have grown... Many years ago I got to go inside the very first A330 when it arrived just hours after the delivery flight from Europe to GRU, still had plastic on the seats and that new car smell! Also, I think some might agree... they have the hottest check-in staff around!

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7660 times:

Can anyone tell me from which date on the 77W will fly to FRA?

Many thanks!  Smile


25 JJ8080 : 100% agreed! Brazil just don't have today, the infrastructure it's market demands. I was just thinking about this when I arrived at GRU last Sunday,
26 Voar : I agree, the terminals at GRU are saturated despite recent improvements. There was supposed to have been a new terminal built many years ago, but pol
27 LipeGIG : At least now they have the First Class lounge. Of course F is just less than 4% of the plane so passengers on Y got a lot of trouble including the cr
28 Incitatus : Part of the problem at GRU stems from its origins. In the initial design plan, there was a bunch of brigadiers from Rio who wanted to make sure GRU w
29 JJ8080 : Totally truth. Think like that: Pax gain with non-stop services between USA/Europe and BSB, CNF, GIG, SSA or so - (minus) USA to SP pax loses because
30 Post contains links AF022 : On another thread a poster indicates that it is known that TAM is unhappy with the A345 performance. Does anyone have details on this? I'm sure fuel b
31 JJ8080 : I don't think they can blame AC to any loses because of performance problems. Maybe Airbus, but anyway, at the moment they chose the a/c, they should
32 Hardiwv : Airlines operation is a business and airlines operate where they make money. GRU T3 is long overdue and a complete new airport is urgently necessary.
33 JJ8080 : I'm surely not saying they should divert flight only becouse other airports have idle capacity and GRU is crowded. My point is that there are other p
34 C010T3 : SAO's 4th airport is dead. Long live VCP!
35 JJ8080 : They should do a fast connection between SP-VCP, like the train is being planned to link SP to RIO, and than turn VCP into a airport as importanta as
36 Incitatus : I see a contradiction in such a statement. If TAM knows better, why haven't they started such flights? It is possible that you are right, TAM could m
37 JJ8080 : Even if they think they would make money flight such routes, they still think it is (and it is) saffer to keep the actual network, don't rotating pla
38 LipeGIG : Well, the problem is that we all know from where the flights begin. TAM does not have planes dedicated to any service outside São Paulo (in fact 763
39 JJMNGR : Guys, I still don´t know why there are speculations yet, about GIG/JFK/GIG being operated by B763 or A332. I posted an information that the flights w
40 C010T3 : The speculation resurfaced because there was speculation about JJ not taking more 763 than the two that were going to operate GIG-MIA. Well, if it's
41 Incitatus : Besides LAX or SFO, it could also be PHL which is a Star Alliance hub and a large market lacking southern South America service.
42 Incitatus : If the risk to be managed is the risk of losing money, then that risk is built into the financial expectation of a route TAM is looking at. A "safer"
43 LipeGIG : MCO or SFO. SFO as a UA hub, could be in fact the next one, and also, would be the jump to Asia in the near future. Right! Any confirmation if it wil
44 C010T3 : Why send 332s to MCO when there is no competition?
45 JJ8080 : Not the higher chance of making most money, but the better risk/profit relation. They can even prospect that they would, proportionaly, make more mon
46 Hardiwv : GRU-SFO daily. We can expect the route to start before the end of the year. ...what a shame. Anyway, TAM will certainly not target the higher yieldin
47 Robffm2 : I was on two of the three A321 TAM has: PT-MXA Dec-2007 GRU-FOR PT-MXC Dec-2007 FOR-GRU and May-2008 GRU-SSA The current configurations is at 220 sea
48 JJ8080 : Why they dropped LAX in favor of SFO? Actually I don't remeber of any airline flying SFO-Brazil non-stop ever, am I right? They should have Alitalia'
49 Incitatus : Indeed it seems only half of the A330s have first class in them.
50 JJ8080 : Although the plan is to upgrade them all to 4F with the new seats, right?
51 LipeGIG : They accomodate Fidelidade Vermelho (Red), their top tier customers on Business seats. Agree, but as T1 is more used they need to complete T2 in orde
52 Hardiwv : Correct. No, in fact TAM is reducing plans for F class. This is a difficult market and of the airlines offering F class in Brazil TAM is the cheapest
53 JJ8080 : Is CCS's demand only for a 319? I mean, GRU-MAO-CCS could fit even a 332 IMO... It will actually have to fit a 763. So there will be 332s with new in
54 LipeGIG : No, i'm sorry. The stop at MAO reduces a lot the demand for TAM flight. I use to see numbers like 80, 90, 100 passengers on board. MAO in fact it's a
55 Hardiwv : Correct. And at least in Europe airlines charge more for O&D passengers. For example, AF would market higher fares for CDG-GIG than for HAM-CDG-GIG.
56 JJ8080 : Yeah, heard that. That's because they want to "steal" other carrier's passengers right? But till now the flight was operated FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA wasn't i
57 LipeGIG : No, the numbers were for CCS route. FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA is different. MAO gets around 2,700 pax every month, FOR comes after with around 1,000 and BEL is
58 JJ8080 : Sorry, I didn't pay the correct attention... My bet. So it will be a MIA-MAO-MIA leg, operated with the 763 used on GIG-MIA route... Thought that GIG
59 LipeGIG : Correct. Or one 763 will run 4x weekly GIG-JFK : Saturday GIG-JFK Sunday JFK-GIG Daylight / GIG-JFK overnight Monday JFK-GIG Tuesday GIG-JFK Wednesda
60 PU752 : Does anybody know how many active pilots are currently working for TAM? I know Brazil is a huge market but Im wondering if there's a lack of pilots or
61 JJ8080 : Just something that I forgot, why is that JJ can't fly GRU-CCS non-stop?? And what about BOG and MEX?
62 Post contains links JJ8080 : Just for the ones are interested, a link the a JJ's 763 tour video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CheDTMvq5k here goes one already with JJ's interio
63 C010T3 : The bilateral agreement between Brazil and Venezuela only allows 7 weekly frequencies for each side. Those belong to RG. JJ got frequencies from the
64 LipeGIG : No, they can't fly CCS non-stop from GIG or GRU as RG is on hold of the only 7 non-stop frequencies. TAM has 7 "Fortaleza Agreement" frequencies whic
65 JJ8080 : Hum, only 7 for BOG and CCS, why they agree for such a small amout? The billaterall is valid only for for the hole country or flights out of places l
66 JJMNGR : Guys, Forget about LAX or SFO... ref B763 they will operate 4 x week confirmed and B763 interiors will have TAM´s own identity like the 02 already de
67 JJ8080 : If anybody want, I posted in another threat about JJ a video with the 763 interior already in JJ's colors.
68 C010T3 : Actually, I think Venezuela didn't sign Fortaleza either. I was just double-checking it and it appears that only a small modification was made in the
69 C010T3 : Oh, that's interesting. I can only think of ORD, seriously. But that would be odd, since UA could have gone double daily on ORD-GRU ages ago. MCO cou
70 JJ8080 : Agreed 100% in Colombia case. Although, in Vanezuela's if they don't have a strong airline, at least they shoul alow more frequencies thinking about
71 JJ8080 : So 2 763 on GIG-MIA-MAO-MIA-GIG 1 763 on GIG-JFK ?
72 LipeGIG : Thanks. If it's not SFO or LAX, i would bet on MCO but also on one UA hub and more chance to see additional flights to ORD (there they offer many opt
73 Post contains images Jmbarros12 : That´s disappointing... If the new route isn´t SFO, I´ll have to agree with Lipe... My bets are on MCO. I don´t know if you guys have already see
74 Post contains links Robffm2 : There is a big number of other planes also, not only the three TAM 777. What are they waiting for? Is it all related to a shortage of some equipments
75 LH506 : I think a hub makes more sense. If it is UA then ORD or IAD. But what about a new codeshare agreement with CO as a future *A member and flights to IA
76 Hardiwv : I think it will be ORD, it makes more sense and TAM can easily compete for passengers with UA. This would certainly make sense. Rgs,
77 LipeGIG : 4 in fact. Yes, this is the reason for delays, but the first one is expected to fly to Brazil next monday. IAH is already served by CO non-stop. Only
78 Incitatus : I agree ORD looks like a bad move. Just look at ORD-EZE, which could not sustain service by either American or United. But at the same TAM needs a fl
79 Hardiwv : A code-share does not mean flying the route. Apparently TAM will also start codesharing with Air Canada YYZ-GRU. Flying the route of a partner to a h
80 JJ8080 : It actually is, take a look at the first video, when the seats still in AZ's colors. When refited to RED, maybe JJ has used a different material.. Go
81 Hardiwv : Correct. Anyway, we know the B767s are a temporary measure only. TAM would not fit them with the new seats as they are not going to stay a long time
82 LipeGIG : There are rumors about a flight out of BSB ! I know and that's why i mention that only make sense to do something different, not the same !
83 Hardiwv : But then it would be narrow body, right? A320 BSB-MIA would certainly be a winner. What would happen to the new A330s? A new European route: GIG-FRA?
84 Thorben : Why is this subjective? Flown pax-km is the best way to determine the size of a carrier, better than sheer aircraft numbers, sheer pax numbers, seat
85 LipeGIG : No info on the type of aircraft but i believe could be 767/330. And in fact, TAM got 7 more frequencies to US, so a new flight, as mentioned by JJMNG
86 JJ8080 : GIG-JFK or GRU-ORD maybe..
87 C010T3 : No, beyond GIG-JFK. TAM has now 56 frequencies to the US: 14 for GRU-MIA 14 for GRU-JFK 7 for MAO-MIA 7 for GIG-MIA 7 for GIG-JFK and 7 not defined y
88 LipeGIG : Perfect ! GIG-JFK is already covered with 7 of 14 frequencies obtained in May/June.
89 JJ8080 : Wow, ok, already considering GIG-JFK. So GRU-ORD is a strong possibility. How's the fleet plan? While they will receive the 77Ws they will phase out
90 MAH4546 : AFAIK, MIA-BSB is planned to be a widebody.
91 JJ8080 : IIRC, A320's max range is 3.000 mi, much depending on engines, loads, winds, etc etc. In the web, The Great Circle Mapper states the BSB-MIA as a 3.1
92 MAH4546 : A319 can do it, though.
93 JJ8080 : Yea, A319 can. But JJ's don't have C-class seats. They would have to refit it, or fly the route without C-class. Anyway, IMO, the 319 is to small for
94 LipeGIG : They will receive 3 or 4 763. If they got 4, 1 (probably the one with 24C 220Y) can fly BSB-MIA. Also, in October they should receive 2 A332 and 2 mo
95 JJ8080 : Assuming they get 3 763, planes shall not be a problem then. 2 763s will be used on GIG-MIA-MAO-MIA-GIG route, another 1 or 2 on GIG-JFK route, depen
96 Neo : JJMNGR already cofirmed the new flight will be operated by A330...so no chances for 763. My be in on GRU-MCO. Rgs, Neo
97 JJ8080 : The new USA flight you mean?
98 JJ8080 : Have any prevision about when are we gonna know the destination? I'd bet on ORD or SFO. So correcting my post above being aware of this info, by the
99 MAH4546 : Correct. The plan is to operate MIA-BSB with a widebody. I was just mentioning that an A319 could do it they wanted to. In terms of narrowbodies to M
100 JJ8080 : Or FOR-MIA... I think they will just dedicate a widebody to BSB-MIA services after they are flying JFK-GIG efficiently, I mean, having sure that they
101 SCL767 : Yep, an NK A-319 certainly can make the trip; if they have an interest in BSB as a future destination.
102 LipeGIG : One of the 4 763 they shoud receive (the one from Air Madagascar). The other 3 763 come from AZ and will be config 30C 175Y, a more premium one. Prob
103 JJ8080 : Why is that? Another two-way configured type of plane on their fleet. These really botters me. JJ will have as much as 6 or 7 J-class seats.... As I
104 C010T3 : That does not make sense at all. First you fly eastwards, then westwards? The longest acceptable routing is BSB-BEL-MIA. Everything longer than that
105 LipeGIG : Tam plans are to use the A321 on domestic flights. This produces a better result (220Y vs 175Y) and protects the high yield revenue generators (C and
106 Hardiwv : Why does it protect C and F? Very interesting development and I am sure there is market here, especially to sell C seats. Do you think all the new su
107 LipeGIG : Because you wont use the 763 or A332 in domestic legs in which you charge Y and sometimes you allow customers to use C seats. Also, using the A321 al
108 JJ8080 : Sorry. My fault. FOR-MIA is still to stretched for a 320... Wouldn't be any demand if they sold C seats on domestic longer routes such as GRU/GIG-FOR
109 Incitatus : I agree BEL is a smaller economy, with a smaller middle class and less attractive to tourists. Even BEL-GRU is a relatively recent route, which shows
110 Hardiwv : Maybe it is time for TAM to reintroduce business class in domestic flights. With their widebody fleet increasing it would make sense to use them in t
111 LipeGIG : Agree about the fact of business class on domestic flights, but considering current load factor (around 65%), should be easy to convert some A320 int
112 MAH4546 : With connections to Atlanta, Boston, Detroit, New York, LA, Chicago, Las Vegas, Orlando, Tampa, and Washington, D.C., Spirit Airlines will be able to
113 Incitatus : The average load factor may be hiding extremes that could result in fewer sales if TAM moved towards lower-density aircraft. For example, if flights
114 JJ8080 : I agreed with both of you guys. JJ should introduce Domestic BusinessClass, at least on routes served by widebodies, such as MAO-GRU. Fot the narrow-
115 LipeGIG : That's why i mention about bases in BSB, MAO, GIG, GRU and POA. They already establish on these bases C catering for international routes. You're rig
116 Hardiwv : Agreed, especially considering the aircraft is already configured in 2 classes. There is no need for change in configuration or expensive seats. The
117 JJ8080 : Yeah but only infligh food and amenities, at least IMO, are not enought to pay more. In fact, I'm prefer flying on a more spaciuos seat and with no f
118 Incitatus : As you mention GIG-BEL, it is odd that even though nonstop links between Sao Paulo and Belem are recent, GIG-BEL was one of the first jet routes in B
119 JJ8080 : If we consider Mining & Steel market, maybe GRU/GIG-CKS-MCP would be interesting... Very hard now-a-days to get to CKS or MCP....
120 LipeGIG : You're right. Now TAM flies it 2x daily and Gol begin 1x daily. Vale should announce this week a US$ 9 billion investment in a Steel Complex in Para
121 JJ8080 : Then again. They should make it like: GRU-CKS-MCP-BEL-CKS-GRU daily 320 GIG-MCP-BEL-GIG daily 319
122 LipeGIG : CKS is connected to Rio de Janeiro because of Vale HQ and main representatives for equipments. GRU-CKS will not work so well as GIG-CKS. MCP is well
123 JJ8080 : True. Wasn't sure if Vale's HQ was either in SP or RIO. I don't think, considering actual conjunture, that MCP is well served. A complement would mak
124 Hardiwv : It has been working for KL, LAN, AF, IB, etc. Most of business seats are solt to companies and they dont investigate what is the product but rather h
125 LipeGIG : Ok if you insist... but again, there is no strong links between São Paulo and Carajas to fill a 320. Mining activities are 100% in Rio and Minas Ger
126 JJ8080 : Sory LipeGIG but I'll disagree again. Even with Vale HQs not being in SP, they have several providers, and colaborators in SP. I'm saying this becaus
127 LipeGIG : I respect you. I just based my opinion on: - Carajas demands Human Resources, connected to both Minas Gerais (where we may find professionals) and Ri
128 Post contains images JJ8080 : You are surely also very right, but let me face your facts: These ones make CGH-SDU demand. Agree. And even from other neerby cities like Marabá, Ara
129 C010T3 : I really think that you're kidding yourself if you think that CKS generates such a strong demand.
130 JJ8080 : No, I'm not kidding myself. If was, I'd probably put watermelon over my head or something like that. I don't know why do you think that CKS cant have
131 C010T3 : Let them fly their corporate jets. We're talking about regular flights here. Even GIG-MAO is a recent nonstop flight. GRU-SLZ doesn't exist... And yo
132 LipeGIG : You're right, but as COIOTE mentioned, demand isn't so big. I continue to believe an E-Jet flying GIG-CKS would be enough. Before TAM ventures on SAO
133 Incitatus : Refer back to my comment on a flight losing a little bit of money every day. Along one year, it will bore a big hole. Say TAM or GOL determine that t
134 Hardiwv : And in additional you will kill the smaller regional players. In the case of CKS we have flights of Trip and Sete to among others : PIN - Parintins-A
135 JJ8080 : Ok, maybe Roger Agnelli and other 5 or 6 top executives fly to CKS with VALE's Legacy or other of it's private jets.. But that's definitly not the pu
136 LipeGIG : No one... this is the lack of planning !
137 JJ8080 : Yes. There were many talks, mainly while Rolin was still alive, about JJ replacing the F100s with 318s or E90/95s.... Don't know why they droped it..
138 Hardiwv : I think it was related to taxation (ICMS) of the Embraer jets in Brazil as it would turn out to be more expensive for TAM to buy the jets from Embrae
139 LipeGIG : It's just a matter of open an off-shore company, provide a capital increase, purchase the E-Jets using it and then lease to TAM Brazil.
140 JJ8080 : Exactly, TRIP did that IIRC.
141 Hardiwv : Probably Azul did the same. So there is lack of willingness of TAM to operate in smaller to medium sized markets. TAM wants to concentrate on higher
142 JJ8080 : What I fing very strange is that they flew for many years with 108-seaters (F100s) and now just ignore the E-Jets.
143 LipeGIG : Yes, they open an off-shore LLC Company. Hardi, but IMO Brazilian market is hot for a E-Jet fleet with several markets under-served. Chile in the oth
144 Incitatus : I've touched on this issue before: TAM up to now has had no reason to do it because of the duopoly in Brazil. As soon as TAM decides for smaller airc
145 AA1818 : Are these two types in the fleet due to a need for a/c or do they need the aircraft for their range or something? Are they used on missions where the
146 LipeGIG : 3 M11 was a temporary measure offered by Boeing together with the first 4 77W deal. TAM got a special lease (US$ 399,000/mo.) to begin new routes as
147 Hardiwv : Lipe: Chile would be more appropriate for smaller (less than 100 seats) jet operations because the market is smaller and density is not so high as in
148 SCL767 : LAN of course, in cooperation with its Oneworld Alliance partners.
149 Hardiwv : As I said, long-haul destinations TAM is bigger. Rgs,
150 AA1818 : I was referring to the international destinations of the airline itself not the alliances or its partners. Thanks for that info. It was exactly what
151 SCL767 : LAN flies daily SCL-AKL-SYD. QF will start SYD-EZE 3x daily in the fall. When the 787s arrive, the MAD/FRA flight will operate as separate flights, a
152 Hardiwv : By the time the 787s arrive in LAN, TAM will also get more B77Ws and more Airbuses widebodies, and TAM's network will strech even further. Interesting
153 SCL767 : LAN is not interested in being the biggest airline in South America. LAN is interested in being the Best Airline in South America. LAN will continue
154 Hardiwv : Of course, LAN is the best! Rgs,
155 Incitatus : I think the management of GOL and TAM are a lot more competent than those of the airlines that are not with us anymore. It is hard to use the example
156 C010T3 : GOL is not a real LCC. That's a myth, a legend... GOL's operation is very dependent on hub concentration, which ultimately needs regional feed. That'
157 JJ8080 : Agree. Gol is not a low cost now for a while. They charge as much as JJ, and sometimes, even more. A feeding service would be interesting either to G
158 Hardiwv : I love doing supermaket groceries shopping in Zona Sul, exactly because it is so more convenient to reach and more cozy and organised as compared to
159 Jmbarros12 : Man, this is something I´m praying to happen. Maybe if I won the lottery, I could turn it into reality. Sds, João Marcelo
160 Incitatus : The problem of making Azul just like Zona Sul is that real estate for grocery stores has to be ground level and is at a premium - and there is only s
161 C010T3 : OK, thank you, but what I actually wanted to imply that the comparison is not that good. TAM and GOL need regional feed, but it doesn't mean that the
162 LipeGIG : It depends on our local entrepreneurs. It's not a matter of hundreds of millions ! May be with US$ 15 to 20 million they can start up something. But
163 JJ8080 : SDU? Will they be able to fly from there to anywere else then CGH?
164 LipeGIG : Probably SDU-PLU, SDU-VIX, SDU-BSB and SDU-CGH (of course) With a smaller jet (E-Jets), they might be able to fly SDU-SJP and SDU-RAO also !
165 Jmbarros12 : I agree with you, however, the performance track record of Brazilian airlines over the past is a factor that makes them a lot more conservative when
166 LipeGIG : Nothing against but Brazil use to develop two kind of airlines. The first is managed by pilots and focus more on a good environment for pilots and st
167 JJ8080 : I thought that SDU had been restricted to the shuttle service and reginal flights... JJ and G3 flyes SDU-BSB?
168 LipeGIG : AZUL is trying to change this, so G3 and TAM requested, last month, several routes out of SDU and PLU, including SDU-BSB. ANAC is looking into this.
169 JJ8080 : How is SDU's capacity being used? Is it idle?[Edited 2008-08-15 03:41:20]
170 LipeGIG : Expect to reach 3.7 million passengers this year. Total capacity is 6.0 million (but due to problems on the new terminal still waiting for R$ 50 to 1
171 JJ8080 : So, no reason for them not to authorize some new flights.. Could be SDU-BSB, SDU-POA and SDU-CNF (IIRC, PLU is now crowded right?)
172 LipeGIG : Don't expect SDU-POA. You should only see SDU-BSB, SDU-PLU and may be SDU-VIX.
173 JJ8080 : Are there slots for PLU? So why JJ, G3 and RG mover their operatins there to CNF?
174 LipeGIG : Just a few operations. PLU should allow no more than 12 to 18 daily flights. But Mr. Aecio, Governor of Minas Gerais is against that. Felipe
175 Post contains links MAH4546 : TAM's President says that MIA-BSB will start in November/December: http://www.comuniweb.com.br/?idpaginas=20&idmaterias=355708
176 JJ8080 : Wonder what equipment are they gonna use. With the beggining of GIG-JFK and upgrade of MAO-CCS to 763, only the two new 332s that are suposed to arri
177 MAH4546 : They are getting two more 767s. One can be used to fly JFK-GIG 4x weekly, the other can be used to fly MIA-BSB daily. That is one possibility.
178 JJ8080 : Yes, with GIG-JFK 4x weekly overnight, they will have one 763 for MIA-BSB... They also maybe receive a Fourth one, with 24C220Y, that IMO wouldn't be
179 LipeGIG : Could be. BSB will get it's first long-haul to North America. Would be nice to have a flight, and there is no right number about the demand for premi
180 JJ8080 : Ok but let's remember the difference on the destinations, MIA and LIS. Maybe a lot here on a.net won't understand about the demand I'm talking about,
181 MAH4546 : TransBrasil offered BSB-MIA/IAD in the 1990s. I think premium demand to MIA is going to much larger than to LIS. There is likely more wealthy tourist
182 LipeGIG : Yes... but i meant currently. DF is just one of the states. Politicians generally lives in their states and depart from home, not from BSB. You may c
183 JJ8080 : I think that Government and business traffic will be enough for them to have good loads on premium seats. US employees traffic is small in comparing
184 LipeGIG : JJ8080, Brazilian Government is very restrictive in who have access to Business and First. I do think only a Ministry, Executive Secretary, Directors
185 JJ8080 : Well, even if SHOULD be like that, I'm quite sure it is NOT. Brasilia is actually a party, a corruption orgy. They don't have any control on the budg
186 LipeGIG : He's the Governor of a state. Just visited NYC during the Woman of the Year Awards using F on a TAM flight. But the point is that C isn't so strong,
187 JJ8080 : Yes I'm aware of it. Ceara's. How??? And soon CNF!
188 Post contains links LipeGIG : Transparency Portal, was designed to allow the public in general to access expenses from the Federal Government and public entities. http://www.trans
189 Neo : Lipe, This is a bit off from the topic, but would you know or have access to classified information regarding which are the top destiations (pax numbe
190 LipeGIG : I will try to get such specific info. I keep you posted. But in fact, the top routes last year should be 1- São Paulo-Buenos Aires 2- São Paulo-Mia
191 JJ8080 : Yes, you're right, CNF still have lack of non-stop flights to POA, NVT, FLN, JOI. With the beginning of AA's CNF-MIA 763 non-stop services, carriers
192 LipeGIG : Right, but just be in mind, Trip is based at PLU (the domestic and downtown airport) which means a 40Km airport change.
193 JJ8080 : Right, 40km airport change trip is not good, but still better then going down to SP or RJ, mainly when most of cities attended by TRIP don't have non
194 JJ8080 : Regarding CNF intl. services, Copa also anouced non-stop CNF-PTY, that will also offer North America connections.
195 Hardiwv : " target=_blank>http://www.transparencia.gov.br/ Transparency International, which is based in Berlin, is an international organisation which keeps c
196 Post contains images JJ8080 : Now 117!!   Welcome PR-MUA!![Edited 2008-08-18 17:02:50]
197 LipeGIG : This Thursday, August 21. Right, and as i mentioned, just a few travel on C, mostly on Y.
198 MAH4546 : Like Brasilia.
199 Hardiwv : 100% correct. The majority of public servants are not allowed to travel busines or first, they all travel Y. In a new policy established recently, wh
200 LipeGIG : They just phased out the F100, so the B77W produced the same number (116). The 3 M11 will now be replaced by 3 B77W but they expect 2 B767 and more A
201 JJ8080 : So no phasing out one M11 now? Just when the other 3 77Ws arrive? IIRC, their plan is to have 123 frames by the end of 2008.
202 MAH4546 : AA won't land at BSB if TAM enters the market. They will likely pursue other markets instead.
203 Incitatus : It seems that it is far from a done deal what US airlines will apply for next. First DL and AA have to look at several months of results, then they h
204 Hardiwv : Your both staments are precise and correct. BSB would be a perfect market for TAM considering it operates its third biggest hub in BSB. Rgs @ DXB
205 JJ8080 : Guys, IIRC, AC is phasing out it's last two 343s. IMO these bird would have been more efficient/interesting to JJ than 763s.
206 LipeGIG : You demand 4 planes to the routes TAM are looking for (or already announced like GIG-MIA), 2 are not enough, and they need a plane for passengers and
207 JJ8080 : OK, so, if they managed to get 4 A343s, what If I am not wrong wouldn't be that hard, they could free up A332s from routes such as GRU-MAD and GRU-JF
208 LipeGIG : Without access to the numbers it's difficult but in general, the A343 would be a good alternative if they decide to fly to LAD or JNB for example. Ma
209 MAH4546 : A340s are extremely difficult to find right now, as US Airways discovered.
210 LVZXV : The F100 PT-MQC I believe was retired in 05-2008 together with its sisters which have now all left Brazil. Out of interest, what is -MQC still doing t
211 C010T3 : Actually, the that's happening right now. The flight was cancelled yesterday.
212 JJ8080 : Thanks for the tips.... Will try to make a report if possible!! Thought they would start retiring the M11s only after the 2nd 77W arrived.
213 SCL767 : LAN's Business product is one of the best out there. The seats are very comfortable, the cabin is very airy, and there is no way you can get bored du
214 C010T3 : No, the MD-11s are scheduled for conversion and they will go as the contract says they need to go.
215 LVZXV : That's the part that surprises me. When the MD-11s were introduced in 02-07 (PT-MSH/I) and 03-07 (PT-MSJ), their planned out dates were given as 2 ye
216 Java6673 : MQC will be ferry to Mexicana by mid-September, still missing a few parts for this A/C Regards
217 LipeGIG : All three frames got into a deal with Boeing which offer a low lease payment ($ 399,000 / monthly) as they want to sell some 777's to TAM. The M11 re
218 Fyano773 : SpeedNews shows 7 A340s available now for sale/lease: 4 A340-500 from Thai. 2 A340-313 from AC. 1 A340-300 from Etihad. Not a big deal in my opinion.
219 JJ8080 : So when GIG-MIA starts wich type will fly GRU-MXP?? Ex-CDG/LHR 330s, that are due to be replaced by the upcoming 77Ws?
220 C010T3 :
221 JJ8080 : So we are gonna have this? GRU-MXP 2 A345 GRU-LHR 2 77W GRU-FRA 2 77W GRU-CDG 3 330 GRU-MAD 2 330 GRU-JFK 3 330 GRU-MIA 4 330 GRU-MCO 2 330 GIG-MIA-MA
222 MAH4546 : If TAM were to launch MCO, I truly doubt they would waste a pair of A330s on the route. The route does not need to be a redeye in both directions. I
223 Jmbarros12 : Has MCO been confirmed as a new route by TAM? Although I'd bet on this, I don't think it's confirmed yet.
224 C010T3 : Not yet, but it has passed the rumour stage.
225 JJ8080 : Agree with you. First of all, I don't have good feelings about GRU-MCO, think they should go after something like GRU-SFO(UA hub), GRU-MEX (Now neith
226 LipeGIG : Agree 100% Now is a little different time. Demand even for twin jets are not so strong as a year ago. While some airlines keep expanding (like EK, TA
227 JJ8080 : If we search a bit, we find several birds that would be useful for JJ's international expansion: Airbus 3 A321-200 - V2530 engines - Inter Airlines Co
228 Jmbarros12 : Good to know it... In a scale of 1 to 10, how can you rate this possibility? Tks, Joao Marcelo
229 Hardiwv : I think TAM should deploy 2 A330 to operate GIG-JFK and 1 B767 to operate GRU-MCO. Is the above aircraft distribution now confirmed? I disagree, MCO
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