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DFW May Close A Terminal  
User currently offlineJalapeno From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 145 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10713 times:

Looks like DFW needs to downsize. I am not familiar with another airport of this size to "slim down" so to speak. Anyone know of this happening before?

According to the Star Telegram:
D/FW Airport might close terminal to save money

Officials at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport may consider closing one of the airport’s terminals as they grapple to keep costs down in coming months.

The full story > http://www.star-telegram.com/dallas_news/story/811609.html

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10664 times:

Doesn't surprise me. They opened a new terminal recently and really haven't had lots of new traffic to justify it. With the american economy slumping, I see things slowing down further.

Instead of closing the terminal, why not open it to new uses? Have conferences there perhaps? Even better yet, start a new aviation conference and have the aircraft showing and gated!!

Just a thought.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10615 times:
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DFW should take the recession as an opportunity to remodel terminal 2E, teh old Branif terminal. This is the terminal used by most domestic airlines serving DFW.

User currently offlineDfwcre8tive From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10418 times:

The plans are to close parts of the terminals while they remodel and update all of Terminals A, B, C, & E over the next few years.

From http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...w-airport-hopes-to-keep-budg.html:

"Looking long term, Mr. Fegan said the airport may consider consolidating airlines into fewer terminals or closing a portion of some terminals. Some related closures would likely be necessary anyhow while the airport conducts much-needed renovations on its original four terminals.

Of D/FW's 155 gates, about 35 to 40 of them are not scheduled for flights."

Also coming to DFW... a pet hotel (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/080608dnbusdfwpets.40e5c3a.html)


User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1307 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10415 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
DFW should take the recession as an opportunity to remodel terminal 2E, teh old Branif terminal. This is the terminal used by most domestic airlines serving DFW.

2E is now Terminal A, right? That is mostly American. Not counting the new international terminal D it seems the majority of the "other" airlines are in terminal E (formerly 4E).



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10246 times:



Quoting Jalapeno (Thread starter):
Officials at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport may consider closing one of the airport's terminals as they grapple to keep costs down in coming months.

And if this doesn't work what? Go to the city of Dallas and demand the closure of DAL and try to force WN over to DFW?  stirthepot 
Look how much this airport has spent on new terminal facilities in recent years and upgrades to their hotel. DFW remains one of the most expensive airports for airlines to operate out of in North America joining the ranks of YYZ, SEA & MIA.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10204 times:

I guess those gas wells aren't cutting it.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineJalapeno From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10064 times:

For help...



Of course, back in the day, E used to be Delta, C & A were mostly American & Eagle (Alaska and Continental at one point) and B the other domestics with the last few gates for international. (miss the old Thai and Lufthansa 74's side by side)


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10023 times:



Quoting Manu (Reply 1):
With the american economy slumping, I see things slowing down further

Texas is a much different story than the rest of the nation. Just like Michigan went into an isolated recession a few years ago, Texas has been in an isolated boom of sorts. Economic growth in Texas is far outpacing the national average. There is another topic right now discussing the record traffic at AUS.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 7):
I guess those gas wells aren't cutting it.

Not a valid conclusion. The gas royalties are providing millions of dollars to the airport in revenue. Consolidating terminals is a cost-saving measure. They go hand-in-hand. Just because the airport is seeking to maximize efficiency isn't an indictment that their revenues from the gas leases are under performing.


User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9934 times:

In some ways this makes perfect sense, but I think longer term this would end up only costing DFW more than it would save. Keep in mind that moving people out only to move them back in 2-3 years down the road will be expensive. Oil has declined for 19 straight days to the tune of 25.00/bbl and many analysts see this to only continue. Airlines will respond to the lower cost of crude pretty rapidly as airlines try to be the first to restore service before their competitors.

I'm surprised DFW hasn't mentioned that the closure of the A terminal would reduce more gates than Love Field possesses in it's entire active inventory. They would have a point, but the debate is over so I digress.


User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9864 times:



Quoting Milemaster (Reply 10):
Oil has declined for 19 straight days to the tune of 25.00/bbl and many analysts see this to only continue. Airlines will respond to the lower cost of crude pretty rapidly as airlines try to be the first to restore service before their competitors.

This is preceisely why the airline industry is such a loser industry. No discipline and too much tetosterone


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9836 times:

By the time they finish the refurbishment, I am sure they are counting on a rebound and not having to shutter another terminal (remember the Satellite Terminal is already shuttered). Also, if one has to go, AA is going to be inconvenienced one way or the other so I really do not see this coming to pass.

The options are:

1. Shut down "E". Issue is where to put all of the others? Move them to B and force AA to move American Eagle away form B? (I am sure the all others will insist on moving AA out of B as a condition of their moving to B.)

2. Shut down "B" and move American Eagle to the Satellite. Cannot see AA agreeing to move their feeder all the way down to E.

In either case there would be very little room for future expansion. Instead look for them to slow down (or stop) the commercial development being paid for by the gas revenues and divert the gas revenues to the operations fund.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9833 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
Not a valid conclusion. The gas royalties are providing millions of dollars to the airport in revenue. Consolidating terminals is a cost-saving measure. They go hand-in-hand. Just because the airport is seeking to maximize efficiency isn't an indictment that their revenues from the gas leases are under performing.

I kinda figured that. It was fun to say anyway. A and C really need a refurb.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineADRIANGALT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

If they must close one terminal then it should be Terminal B, that will only effect UA and American Eagle and the odd charter. The facilities in Terminal B are as bad as Terminal E.

User currently offlineJalapeno From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9661 times:



Quoting ADRIANGALT (Reply 14):
If they must close one terminal then it should be Terminal B, that will only effect UA and American Eagle and the odd charter. The facilities in Terminal B are as bad as Terminal E.

Agree, they are just as equally bad, but with E being away from all the others, plus having the dead satellite, might was well shut E down.

In otherwords, it might seem akward to shut down B when it the combination of A, B, C, & D make a nice little square on the north side


User currently offlineADRIANGALT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9628 times:

I thought about E closing, but they just moved a bunch of carriers from B to E not too long ago, not sure another move for those airlines would go down too well. Sure they will figure it out though.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9606 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
DFW should take the recession as an opportunity to remodel terminal 2E, teh old Branif terminal.

Braniff (v1.0) was in terminal 2W

http://www.braniffpages.com/pic12.html


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

Sounds like some roosting chickens to me...DFW way overbuilt Terminal D, and now they have to pay for it. AA has already moved a bunch of domestic flights over there to help backfill it, no wonder they don't need all their gate space.

Gsosbee's point is important. It would be very expensive to redistribute an entire terminal's worth of gates. If the airport is the one requesting the move, the airport would probably have to pay for it, too.

I'd ask, how "bunched" are the disused gates? The DFW website indicates that a lot of the south end of E is empty. Move the few small players scattered at that end (AS, YX, US, F9) to vacant gates at the other end, and just close that end of E. Only a few vendors would likely be affected, and it'd be much less expensive than clearing a whole terminal.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9515 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
Sounds like some roosting chickens to me...DFW way overbuilt Terminal D, and now they have to pay for it. AA has already moved a bunch of domestic flights over there to help backfill it, no wonder they don't need all their gate space.

Are they actually domestic flights? I was in Terminal E during an evening rush last year and there were a lot of flights arriving from Mexico which required customs but then turned around and flew out to domestic US destinations.

I can't picture them routing domestic flights through E if they did not have to. It is a very long and inconvenient connection riding around on the elevated train. Especially for late arrivals and close connections.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9485 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
Sounds like some roosting chickens to me...DFW way overbuilt Terminal D, and now they have to pay for it. AA has already moved a bunch of domestic flights over there to help backfill it, no wonder they don't need all their gate space

Then again, if they had underbuilt it, they would've come under fire for not anticipating increasing passenger numbers. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.


User currently offlineJustPlaneNutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9321 times:

Three points:

1) E satellite is already mothballed, so that's 9 of the 35 gates unused.

2) The high C gates AA uses would make sense to me to mothball if AA is cutting back. They were supposed to be temporary construction 20 years ago.

3) The terminal map above doesn't show the connector between B and D. I don't believe you can actually enter D from there and the gates are underused, so there's another 3-4 gates.


User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9295 times:

Terminal B is the best option to go. This terminal is so under use. Now that UA is closing their Red Carpet Club I don't see a reason not to moved to Terminal E. All other airlines has made E their home.

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9207 times:

I will tell you one thing they can do, is delay building the permeter taxiways, which will do nothing to reduce delays, and it will increase arrival delays by increasing taxi times to the gate that are already long to begin with. If anyone has ever flown into DTW and landed on 22R, you know what I am talking about too.

Makes you wonder why they have spent so much money building the New Terminal and the SkyLink (Which are both very nice mind you), and continue to do more, without having the money for it. No wonder they wanted Wright to stay so bad, and no wonder they don't want DAL built up, because they want the traffic at DFW.


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

I guess the Barnett Shale isn't producing the zillions they thought it would?


I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineRedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8891 times:

I would say that they could close Terminal B.

They could move United to Terminal E

The problem is that American Eagle has alot of gates there. They could move American Eagle to the Low Terminal A Gates and move back into Satellite A2 (Gates A2A-A2N) like how they had it in the past. But that would also cause a problem since Satellite A2 is only accessed by buses and has no direct connection to SkyLink.

Terminal B would be the one to get rid of but it would be tricky trying to squeeze in American Eagle.

Either way, I think it would be either Terminal B or Terminal E being closed up...


Mason



Northwest Airlines. Now you're flying smart! (RIP 1926-2009)
25 Type-Rated : Isn't the former terminal 2W now terminal B?
26 Post contains images RyDawg82 : The P2 High-Speed and Southeast Perimeter project is nearing completion....Hopefully the additionally taxiways are placed on hold until traffic comes
27 RwSEA : Boy, if I were a citizen of the Metroplex I'd be pretty pissed that my tax dollars were being used to run a huge empty airport while another competing
28 Super80 : I remember I read it on DFW People (the airport newspaper) saying that the DFW Airport Board has already come up with a master plan for rebuilding Ter
29 DeltaFFinDFW : Huge empty airport?? Only 35 of 155 gates are empty. I hardly see DFW as empty... I don't see DAL as "competing" in the size and scope of the operati
30 LAXdude1023 : From what it sounds like, if they closed it, they would be updateding it. Its not a bad time to do it because of the Airline idustries lull in traffic
31 JustPlaneNutz : If they ever do that (when, really), moving baggage claim downstairs into the old AirTrans space would make sense. The lower roadways are grossly und
32 ScottB : The new terminal is required under the terms of the compromise to phase out Wright; it was put in there in order to raise costs at DAL in order to "l
33 Post contains links Dfwcre8tive : From the Dallas Business Journal: http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas...08/08/04/daily37.html?surround=lfn "It’s highly unlikely Dallas/Fort Worth
34 Dfwcre8tive : The ACSA and DHS recently held a competition for plans to redevelop DFW's older terminals (A, B, C, E). This competition focused on the re-life of Ame
35 Dfwcre8tive : E satellite is currently being used for hostage training/airport emergency response and has been off-limits to passengers for quite some time. Is the
36 Airnerd : As an aside, SFO closed a terminal several years ago after the new international terminal opened. It's still closed, with no signs that it will be ren
37 Commavia : I agree that B makes the most sense to close, if the airport chooses such a move. B is already fairly lightly used - not necessarily in terms of opera
38 JustPlaneNutz : Added to the 9 E satellite gates, that would be the majority of the unused gates. I doubt either of those will see service again--they are obsolete.
39 AAtakeMeAway : I didn't know they were reverting back to the banks... why are they doing that?
40 Commavia : Well, admittedly, it's been probably 2-3 months since I've been through there, but unless there has been some change since then - yes, I am 100% posi
41 Reality : SFO closed its old international terminal when it opened the new international terminal a number of years ago. The old one is still closed, but there
42 Davico68 : I fly through DFW a lot and absolutely hate it when my flight uses terminal A. It is disgusting and really needs a major overhaul. Terminal A has that
43 Ssides : I may be wrong but I don't believe this is the case. With its gas revenues, I do believe landing fees at DFW are relatively low. It's one of those di
44 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Actually, that is not true. DFW has some of the LOWEST landing fees, aircraft parking fees, and terminal lease rates for signatory airlines in the wo
45 Apodino : The only perimeter Taxiway at ATL is Taxiway V, which is at the West end of the Northside (West of the 8R threshold). Additionally, its an apples to
46 Post contains links CV880 : [quote=Airnerd,reply=36]As an aside, SFO closed a terminal several years ago after the new international terminal opened. It's still closed, with no s
47 KC135TopBoom : In 2007, DFW handled about 59.7M passengers, the projections for 2008 shows a slight decrease to about 59.5M. It is 2009 that shows a 7% decrease in
48 Jsnww81 : I actually don't think Terminal A is that bad. What would help - enormously - would be removing the glassed-in corridors and departure lounges that u
49 Post contains links Contrails : DFW said today that the chance of closing any terminals is "extremely remote": http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...808dnbusairportboard.233acfea.ht
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