Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Launches ATL-BOM, Cuts JFK-BOM  
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20229 times:

Just loaded into the schedules.

Delta 184 Atlanta (ATL) to Mumbai (BOM).

Effective November 25, 2008 daily.

I'm scratching my head here wondering where this aircraft will be sourced from as ship 7103 isn't scheduled until December 31, 2008...

[Edited 2008-08-06 21:38:54]

202 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20217 times:

Thanks Chris

Good for Delta.

Will they keep JFK-BOM also?



yep.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20200 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1):

So far the schedules show both flights operating but as we all know they are subject to change.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20200 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1):

Still showing as daily service, yes.

[Edited 2008-08-06 21:42:17]

User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20180 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):

You're probably correct. Unless we source a new 77L earlier, the JFK-BOM flight is toast.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20164 times:

Damn that's a long flight.

At least for FO's, ATL-BOM will probably be the most junior bid trip at the company given the triple-crew requirements.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20152 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 3):
Looks as if aircraft will cycle between JFK and ATL as the ATL-JFK segment of DL 16 is again 77L equipment from November 25...

Freaking sweet now i need a reason to go to JFK to fly one.

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 4):
You're probably correct. Unless we source a new 77L earlier, the JFK-BOM flight is toast.

This is true 7103 isn't due till Dec. so could DL be some how working it with a 77E?



yep.
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20152 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
At least for FO's, ATL-BOM will probably be the most junior bid trip at the company given the triple-crew requirements.

I wouldn't be so sure! Those 777 pilots sure like their new toys!  Smile


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20154 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Just loaded into the schedules.

Delta 184 Atlanta (ATL) to Mumbai (BOM).

Effective November 25, 2008 daily.

That's awesome! Makes more sense than JFK-BOM for DL these days.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1):
Will they keep JFK-BOM also?

Not quite sure. Take a look a look at the schedules:

DL 016 ATL-JFK-BOM dep 15:50 a 22:35
DL 184 ATL-BOM dep 19:50 a 22:35

DL 017 BOM-JFK-ATL dep 01:05 arr 11:00
DL 185 BOM-ATL dep 01:05 arr 08:30

With arr / dep times in Bombay remaining the same, they might be dropping JFK frol the flight.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20138 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
This is true 7103 isn't due till Dec. so could DL be some how working it with a 77E?

No chance. Like I said, JFK-BOM is history unless we source additional frames...

FINALLY! Something interesting to photograph in ATL!  



[Edited 2008-08-06 21:52:00]

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20127 times:

Is the Air India nonstop hurting their yields out of JFK? Are their load factors slipping? I had understood JFK-BOM was a very solid flight and considered a success at DL, why would they move it out to a hub yet further away? I could see expanding to add a second hub (given ATL's connections), but losing the O and D out of JFK? Why the switch?

ATL-BOM will be, what, the second longest non-stop commercial flight, just about the longest with Y seats.

Well, best of luck to DL on this endeavor. It's nice to see airlines start to stretch the legs on those 772LR's.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20089 times:

Can't they put a 772ER on JFK-BOM, or is that fleet at maximum usage right now?

User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20037 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Can't they put a 772ER on JFK-BOM

They can - heck, they've even done ATL-BOM with the E's a few times when NYC weather was screwy. But it comes with too many restrictions.


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20007 times:

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
I'm scratching my head here wondering where this aircraft will be sourced from as ship 7103 isn't scheduled until December 31, 2008...

As am I. I see a few of possibilities.

1. Simultaneous discontinuation of JFK-BOM hence the a/c needed for ATL-BOM. But, then again, the JFK-BOM flight is still in the schedules.

or

2. Maybe DL has worked out some earlier delivery slots with BAC for some of the 77L's.

or

3. Maybe DL will be acquiring some capable a/c 2nd hand.

Very interesting development nonetheless. Thanks for posting Flynavy!

[Edited 2008-08-06 22:06:41]

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 19941 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 12):
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Can't they put a 772ER on JFK-BOM

They can - heck, they've even done ATL-BOM with the E's a few times when NYC weather was screwy. But it comes with too many restrictions.

That's sure testing the legs of 77E, but if any airline shows what a fleet of 77E's can do, it's definitely DL.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 19941 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
This is true 7103 isn't due till Dec. so could DL be some how working it with a 77E?

No chance. Like I said, JFK-BOM is history unless we source additional frames...



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):

Can't they put a 772ER on JFK-BOM, or is that fleet at maximum usage right now?

They "can" but 2 things. I think the 77Es will be at Max (the reason I asked is I forgot about ATL-KWI starting around the same time) and it can't carry much Cargo. With ATL-BOM on a 77L not sure how much cargo would need to go to NYC though.

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 13):
2. Maybe DL has worked out some earlier delivery slots with BAC for some of the 77L's.

This is my guess (or they will drop it) Has anyone canceled any 777 orders? Or does anyone want to wait till DEC for a 777?



yep.
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 19943 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Can't they put a 772ER on JFK-BOM, or is that fleet at maximum usage right now?

With 8 777-200ERs, they fly Daily NRT, daily TLV, ICN, DXB, PVG, and KWI. I think that fleet is maxed out.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19862 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 7):
I wouldn't be so sure! Those 777 pilots sure like their new toys!

But if you have a full triple crew, the most junior FO's will be stuck flying the cruise portion of the flight only, and will constantly have to go to ATL to keep up on their takeoff and landing currency - every 90 days.

I hear the JFK 777 base is extremely junior as is, and that's just double-crew to BOM and back, much less triple-crew from ATL!!


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2981 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19850 times:



Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 13):

Given the issue of slot availability at BOM at that particular time frame, the discontinuation of the JFK - BOM service seems more happening than the other two.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19793 times:



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):
With 8 777-200ERs, they fly Daily NRT, daily TLV, ICN, DXB, PVG, and KWI. I think that fleet is maxed out.

Only NRT, TLV, and PVG are currently daily. DXB is now at 6 weekly soon to go daily and ICN and KWI are/will be 4 times weekly. Also, PVG will dip down to 5 weekly beginning IIRC in October until April or May when it reverts to daily.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19751 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
I'm scratching my head here wondering

I'm wondering why DL had to create a new flight with a new number? I mean IF JFK is to be dropped, they could still keep the same flight numbers - it's basically the same route, without the intermediate stop.


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2981 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19718 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20):
I'm wondering why DL had to create a new flight with a new number? I mean IF JFK is to be dropped, they could still keep the same flight numbers - it's basically the same route, without the intermediate stop.



With the introduction of LR's to BOM, they had stopped the ATL tag to this flight. The 2 LR's were exclusively dedicated to BOM.

As far as the flight number goes, they did not follow the practice even when they made JFK - BOM nonstop which was earlier a one stop via CDG. Then the JFK-BOM-JFK flight number was DL 118/119 and the DL flight to MAA(via CDG) was numbered 016/017.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19703 times:



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):
With 8 777-200ERs, they fly Daily NRT, daily TLV, ICN, DXB, PVG, and KWI. I think that fleet is maxed out.

I want to add to this.
Delta 777 Fleet
DL0055 ATL-NRT Daily 777-232ER
DL0056 NRT-ATL Daily 777-232ER
DL0152 ATL-TLV Daily 777-232ER
DL0153 TLV-ATL Daily 777-232ER
DL0016 JFK-BOM Daily 777-232LR
DL0017 BOM-JFK Daily 777-232LR
DL0184 ATL-BOM Daily 777-232LR*
DL0185 BOM-ATL Daily 777-232LR**
DL0008 ATL-DXB 6x weekly 777-232ER
DL0009 DXB-ATL 6x weekly 777-232ER
DL0091 ATL-ICN 5x weekly 777-232ER
DL0092 ICN-ATL 5x weekly 777-232ER
DL0158 ATL-KWI 4x weekly 777-232ER***
DL0159 KWI-ATL 4x weekly 777-232ER****
DL0018 ATL-PVG 5x weekly 777-232ER
DL0019 PVG-ATL 5x weekly 777-232ER

* Starts Nov. 25,2008
** Starts Nov. 25,2008
*** Starts Nov. 8,2008
**** Starts Nov. 8 2008
(As of right now this is with 10 777s)

As you can tell DL will be VERY tight with the 777s.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19692 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20):


I'm wondering why DL had to create a new flight with a new number? I mean IF JFK is to be dropped, they could still keep the same flight numbers - it's basically the same route, without the intermediate stop.

Because As of right now DL16/17 will still be going along with DL184/185. If DL16/17 is dropped I'm sure DL will find a use for the two numbers.  Wink



yep.
User currently offlineVivekman2006 From India, joined May 2006, 542 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19674 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
Is the Air India nonstop hurting their yields out of JFK? Are their load factors slipping?

I am not quite sure. Last news I heard was that the Delta flight had quite good loads whereas the AI non-stop had pretty poor loads ~ 40-50%

- Vivek


25 LAXdude1023 : No surprise here, although I thought DL would try to open DEL from ATL first. I always said ATL-India and ATL-JNB nonstop were great options for the 7
26 United1 : I'm assuming that this is something that is posted on DLs internal scheduling system as Delta.com does not have the flight listed at this point.
27 OOer : Its in RES. The reason you cannot pull it up is because no fares have been loaded yet. Give it a couple of days.
28 Misbeehavin : Yep. DL sure get every pound of flesh they can from those birds. Looking at your list I'm guessing GRU is back to all 767 in the winter?
29 DeltaL1011man : AFAIK yes.
30 Flynavy : DL ATLICN dips down to 3x per week this winter, operating only on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. The daily KE ICN services continues throughout the w
31 Aviationbuff08 : Me too, but if anyone can get the answer, you can. Not necessarily, When they have sent the 777ER to GRU its been full of reveue passengers for the m
32 Kaitak744 : On a side note, how long does it take Delta to repaint and install new interiors on a 777? I think 2 777-200ERs have been repainted and upgraded? Are
33 Flynavy : ATL-GRU is all 767-400ER this winter, sorry. If I told you, I'd have to kill you, unfortunately. The Board approved the conversion of two 777 options
34 Flynavy : They have only been repainted, no interior retrofits yet. When the summer schedule winds down aircraft will be taken out of service for the lie-flat
35 Panamair : UGH! Here we go again - are we back to this ATL-centric crap again? After letting the acquired Pan Am assets rot for years, I thought Delta had finall
36 Flynavy : Please throttle-back your epic self-pwn. The JFK-CDG switch to AF metal is part of the AF/DL joint venture. As for the "ATL-centric crap" - it has pr
37 DeltaL1011man : That is right. No new on routes yet. I know for a fact ATL-HKG and ATL-JNB is being looked at. Along with JFK-NRT. The thing about JNB is DL will hav
38 Flynavy : Are you SURE about that? The 2 UFOs are ours...
39 DL Widget Head : Fear not Panamair, DL is not leaving JFK by any stretch. In fact, to quote our former CEO, Grinstein, you ain't seen nothing yet. DL has BIG plans fo
40 LAXdude1023 : Is DL canceling JFK-BOM? If so and you live in NYC and are a loyal DL flyer, just take AF through CDG and get youre miles that way instead of backtra
41 Sydscott : Or take Northwest/KLM to Amsterdam and connect to the 1 stop NW service.
42 DeltaL1011man : Hold on Panamair. First the DL 752 flight is being replaced by a AF 777......to me thats better. 2nd JFK-BOM has yet to go anywhere. My guess is if i
43 UAL777UK : What crew rest facilities does DL have on its 77L?. Do Flight crew rest in the main cabin or is there separate area's under or over the main cabin?
44 Post contains links and images Flynavy : Pretty much identical to the ER crew rest, except the LR's is certified to be occupied for takeoff and landings. View Large View MediumPhoto © R
45 OA412 : I stand corrected. Thanks for the info!
46 Post contains links Panamair : Recent years? Hell, ATL has been the basis of DL's success for most of DL's life! But, as many DL execs have taken pains to mention in the recent pas
47 Flynavy : Correction: effective November 1, 2008.
48 DeltaL1011man : Separate area under. The thing is (and Delta has ALWAYS done this) when things get bad they run back to Atlanta. JFK has so many airlines that Delta
49 Flynavy : Actually, the crew rests are above the main cabin... A point that will, undoubtedly, be conveniently ignored once the pundits here get wind of this a
50 DeltaL1011man : Oh well hell I need to just let you answer all the questions and shut up then. Want to bet that someone will say that DL is running away from CO and
51 Aviationbuff08 : That would be very nice!! Maybe that will change, since they can change quickly without warning. Didn't they add an Additional 764 flight to GRU in t
52 DeltaL1011man : I think GIG got a seasonal 764 flight (only on a few days.) Don't forget DL is about to get 744s and A333s which are BIGGER than anything AA has.
53 OA412 : CO most certainly does fly EWR-BOM along with EWR-DEL. I'm certain that many on here will label this a defeat for DL in the NYC-India market. The fac
54 Flynavy : Yes but not daily. Had we not retired all the 'scuds we'd be giving fingers to multiple airlines on multiple continents... I can't even begin to imag
55 Panamair : If the connections principle is truly applied, then JFK should only have flights to NCE, IST, maybe KBP, LYS, and GEO.
56 NewYorkCityBoi : Atlanta has a lot less o&d market than JFK. Most people that fly to BOM is probably come from bigger cities that already can be connected thru JFK. I
57 Flynavy : Hell, from your logic, everyone who wants to visit Mumbai lives in NYC. There is a world outside of Manhattan...
58 DeltaL1011man : in the link that posted..........don't shoot the on who quotes it. I must have missed it but when did NYC become the center of the universe? All I'm
59 Panamair : That's not what he said. Read it again:
60 N867DA : Wow, this is great news for me! I don't understand the logic in moving the terminator from JFK to ATL (and I definitely wonder if there is demand for
61 CokePopper : When we had "mini Mumbai" (ATL-JFK-ATL on the 777) it was always full of indian passengers. A shame JFK looses yet ANOTHER flight.
62 RL757PVD : One problem is that the JFK-BOM flight has the 777 sitting there almost all day long. Im wondering if they will call JFK-BOM a winter seasonal suspens
63 CARST : Perhaps they don't have a airplane problem as we all believe here. They could get a 777 from an airline that doesn't need so many for the winter seaso
64 FlyPNS1 : Ok, I shouldn't do this, but I'll do it anyways. A supposed expert told us that DL would dominate over CO on the NYC-BOM route because DL had the 772L
65 Flynavy : Your point? CO's success on EWR-BOM isn't sealed yet. Even with DL's departure from the city pair, the NYC-India market remains saturated. IMO, it is
66 Sxf24 : The flight dominated in the sense that it could carry more passengers and cargo. In the end, CO has a better chance of surviving AI's yield trashing
67 Jfk777 : JET Airways flies to both JFK & EWR, Air Inda does Dehli and Mumbai nonstop wit 77L's, CO does both nonstop from Newark and Kingfisher might join the
68 Rwy04LGA : It started with Peter Minuit in 1624, LOOONG before Atlanta!!
69 Ojas : add AI serving to EWR as well (via CDG and soon switching to LHR).
70 MaverickM11 : I wish I could remember what DL cheerleader promised us all that DL would be one of the last ones standing in BOMNYC because they had the LR on the ro
71 Luv2fly : Roughly translated we now have no direct competition so we can gouge are passengers. Because it was CO and we all know that a certain someone has a a
72 Flynavy : You all just can't resist letting your bitterness flow, can you? It really is starting to get nauseating. Give it a freaking rest already. Take whate
73 BigGSFO : ATL-BOM...wow, one long-ass flight. I'll make the assumption that this flight will be mostly connections (ATL-India O&D market surely isn't big enough
74 Luv2fly : I did not even mention said poster! If he gets called out it is his own fault for making some of the statements and attitude he tends to spout.
75 Alitalia744 : Connectivity opportunities will help this work from ATL. Sad to see JFK lose yet another flight.
76 N867DA : Will DL operate JFK-BOM and ATL-BOM once they have the aircraft? I don't think they can do a great deal of gouging. I'm sure this route will be relyin
77 Luv2fly : Well the residents of CVG would probably disagree with ya! And it is easier to charge more when your the only option in town.
78 STT757 : Man you walked into that one, CO flies nonstop both DEL and BOM from EWR, CO had the first nonstop from the US to India. AA, DL, AI etc followed CO's
79 Post contains links Ojas : Yes it is confirmed DL is discontinuing JFK - BOM. http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11134 Delta Adds First-Ever Nonstop Service be
80 Misbeehavin : 118/9 was the existing JFK-CDG flight, that became JFK-CDG-BOM and went back to being just JFK-CDG when BOM became nonstop. Of course, as part of the
81 Flighty : I think DTW-BOM might be better. DTW offers almost the same connection opportunities as ATL. Plus it is better situated to pull from Texas, Chicago et
82 Jumbojet : Not if you want to bank your miles into your skymies account. Well, so much for seeing DL 777's in JFK. Doubt very much we will ever see them again a
83 Jfk777 : The 777 or NW 744 will appear at JFK if the merged airline goes to Tokyo. NRT is a huge piece missing from the DL JFK portfolio. Sad to see Mumbai go
84 MaverickM11 : The irony is that DL announced and started the route first out of all three and had almost a year head start until CO and then later AI joined the fr
85 FlyDreamliner : Why sorry? the 767-400ER is a great way to fly... every bit as pleasant and comfortable as 777-200ER (If not moreso, thanks to 2-3-2 / 1-2-1 seating)
86 Flighty : The fact is, Delta does have a marketing issue. Retreating to ATL does not speak of much power at NYC, nor the necessary commitment to build a hub DE
87 Misbeehavin : Who cares! It's about time those babies were brought home. And they should stay home!
88 Post contains links Panamair : That's alright - I'm well covered with top tier status on DL, CO, and AA (all 3 big players out of NYC) and have Platinum for life with DL anyway....
89 OA412 : Honestly enough is enough. If you wish to discredit WT pleast start a separate thread and do so at your hearts content. Or better yet, use the PM fun
90 RwSEA : Hmm interesting development. DL was way out ahead of the pack on JFK-BOM and all indications were that the flight was printing money. So what happene
91 Jumbojet : Just knew it was to good to be true and for the eventual JFK to NRT route, that will probably be with a A330 or a B744 but certainly its sad to see t
92 Alitalia744 : Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
93 Post contains images Misbeehavin : Stroking the ego or not, as part of the image overhaul last year, DL also declared their strategic objectives. "Win in New York" was one that's stuck
94 MaverickM11 : Relax. The tidal wave of DL propaganda will resume soon enough.
95 OA412 : If only you were as clever and witty as you think you are. Who says I want to see a tidalwave of DL propaganda in this or any thread? Like most every
96 Mk777 : The NYC-India market is saturated as of now, so i have to agree with a few who think/feel the same. I think DL offering ATL-BOM is a much better fit t
97 Ken4556 : Could Delta also be factoring aircraft ultization into moving these flights to Atlanta? This would allow them to do at high flying rate of the 777-200
98 STT757 : 2007 Transformation plan Objectives' "Fly Right", "Win together" My God they plagiarized that right from CO's book! Hmm.. Lets see, something like "th
99 Viscount724 : I believe ATL-BOM will be the 3rd longest nonstop scheduled flight in the world after SQ's all-business class A340-500 service EWR-SIN and LAX-SIN. Or
100 Flighty : "I meant to do that" "I know you are, but what am I?" LOL
101 XFSUgimpLB41X : I wouldn't be surprised to see jfk-bom return as well as the addition of jfk-nrt as the new ships become available.
102 MaverickM11 : I'm going to go with neither, and if ATLBOM makes it more than two years I'll be surprised.
103 Luv2fly : I do have to agree with what you say. It seems at least to me that DL would rather build and strengthen the fortress hub then compete when it comes t
104 RwSEA : Given the impending merger with NW, does anyone think that AMS-BOM will be dropped in favor of the US nonstops? If so, then KL would need to start the
105 FFlyerWorld : What foreign carriers are you referring to from JFK - BOM? I hope you are not thinking Air India?? Delta is doing what makes best sense for them to i
106 Aarbee : It's about time. I always found it silly that significant no. of pax had to do a HOME-ATL_JFK before boarding the BOM flight. That fact that DL has a
107 Ojas : They will go BOM-LHR-EWR and AI 111/112 DEL-LHR-JFK will not exist. JFK will see 2 daily non stops to India ( BOM & DEL). Rumors say AI 125/127 will
108 Post contains links United1 : Air India's new F/J/Y on the 777s seems to be rather modern and up to date, certainly light years ahead of the product on the 747 & 310s. http://home
109 DTWAGENT : How many of the B777's did DL order to begin with? chuck
110 Evan767 : So you think Delta is going to pull out of Bombay entirely.... Oh brother. Have you read any of the articles? Let me quote something for ya: I think
111 United1 : I'm willing to bet if they relaunch JFK-BOM sometime int he future it will be with a 787. Set JFK up as more of an O/D flight with ATL handling the b
112 Yellowtail : This is why ATL-MID, MGA, TAB, JFK-GUA/PTY/SJO and LAX to Mex/C.America et al have been such stunning successes well there is little ole fortress IAH
113 Bobnwa : Joint venture flights means tha DL is serving JFK-CDG except it's a AF aircraft. NW and KL have been doing it successfully for 10 years. Makes no dif
114 MaverickM11 : You're quoting a press release? What do you expect them to say? "We plan to abandon the NYCBOM market and never return"? Of course they *eventually*
115 WorldTraveler : Glad to see there is no shortage of testosterone flowing even before I stepped into the room. DOT data for the 1st quarter of 2008 shows that DL had a
116 Funkywabit : "Excuse me ATL, but I knew JFK and sir you are no JFK" Sorry I could'nt resist
117 OA412 : Oh please! Not everything DL does is plagiarized from CO. When you expand as much as DL has, not everything is going to work. However, for the most p
118 Yellowtail : Yes....The DL Lord is in the building. .....but crazy suggestions from good ole WT do keep us on our toes. DLs figures back this....when I get a few
119 777gk : 777 on JFK-TLV could work with that schedule. True, but you cannot deny the 'transformation plan' is a facsimile copy of CO's Go Forward plan, hatche
120 Incitatus : What you are saying does not add up. Airlines that have profitable longhaul flights and face new competition aggressively try to sustain their servic
121 Luv2fly : Oh I hope you have on your asbestos boxers as you are going to hell for even mentioning both CO and DL in the same sentance.
122 MaverickM11 : The only problem is that all of Latin America supplies about the same number of PDEWs to BOM as ATL does, so DL would have to get every last one of t
123 WindowSeat : I just booked my tickets on DL 184/185 for later this year in BusinessElite. yay! I've flown the flight from JFK too and I don't think it would make a
124 9V-SPJ : I was booked on DL from ATL to JFK and then DL 16 JFK to BOM and then DL17 all the way back to ATL from BOM in Dec/Jan. Looked on travelnet and availa
125 LAXDESI : FWIW, the Indian population in the ATL vicinity is about 20% that of JFK, and growing faster than the NY area.
126 MaverickM11 : Makes sense, seeing as the BOM demand from NYC is roughly 5 times bigger than ATL
127 Bobnwa : WT, is this a concession that NW also made a profit during the 2nd quarter (larger in fact). You have dropped the statement that DL was the ONLY carr
128 9V-SPJ : I think there are many reasons for shifting the flight to ATL: 1. The amount of ground delays at JFK are atrocious. The flight never leaves on time. 2
129 WorldTraveler : if DL copied it, they are clearly doing a better job than CO is. DL's profit has exceeded CO's for a number of quarters in recent memory and DL has b
130 OA412 : But that's exactly what I'm getting at. Load factor does not in and of itself equal profitability. Just because the load factor to MGA is low does no
131 Post contains links 747MegaTop : it is confirned that they are dropping JFK-BOM. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...?type=blog&ak=53894484.blog&csp=34
132 OA412 : I forgot to add this to an earlier post. I agree with you on this. If DL wants to "win" in New York they cannot be wishy washy in their commitment to
133 STT757 : It's true, Worldtraveler confirmed it
134 DeltaL1011man : The 77L can carry more cargo...........not to hard to understand. If you carry more cargo and have around the same yields who will make more money? (
135 Jfk777 : Southern Europe is what killed TWA, Northern Europe is where the premuim traffic is. Delta CAN't give up on CDG, AMS, LHR or ZRH. The fact they are o
136 Eghansen : Because they fly mostly 767s? Because the seats in Business are narrow with seat pitch of only 60"? Because coach has no PTVs?
137 STT757 : Worldtraveler just confirmed CO enjoys high fares on EWR-BOM vs DL's JFK-BOM even though DL had higher load factors, these are passenger airlines not
138 WorldTraveler : struggling, no. DL does better to northern Europe from ATL, CVG, and SLC. The mega Euro flags (which are predominantly northern and western European)
139 STT757 : THUMP>>>> I just fell out of my chair.
140 WorldTraveler : I didn't say CO had higher revenue; CO's average fare was slightly higher but DL's LF was higher. The result was similar enough that CO and DL probab
141 Lono : I may have missed "Mayor's" input here... but a majority of the FRA-DFW flights had a very large backlog of BOM-DFW-JFK-ATL freight... tons of BOM PIP
142 MaverickM11 : Like I said, it doesn't matter one lick until they actually pull down the service. Let's do the math. ATL has one nonstop to BOM, and one fifth the d
143 USAFDO : How many F/A's work on that trip? How much crew rest do they get? Do they have overhead crew rest quarters on their 77L ?
144 Post contains images OA412 : I've got to say, that's a good one.   Gotta admit so did I. [Edited 2008-08-07 19:22:23]
145 Flynavy : Yes, there are F/A crew rest facilities on our 77Ls. The pilot crew rest (2 bunks, 2 seats) is above and forward of the first row of J class seats wh
146 USAFDO : How man F/A's work a long flight like this on that new acft?
147 CokePopper : 11 More than 3 hrs less than 6 All depends on the loads/service/flight time Yes All of our 777 have overhead crew rest.
148 Abrelosojos : = Oh my God ... I must be on too much caffeine preparing for my pitch to a large Asian airline ... but I agree with MaverickM11! WOW! I also think th
149 OA412 : Absolutely true and it will likely be an uphill battle but let's not forget that DL has done some pretty surprising things at ATL in the past. Lest w
150 WorldTraveler : DL already carries heavy cargo loads out of BOM.. reported to be high value gems. and you once again fail to realize that the same NYC local market i
151 Panamair : AMS: Not a high-yielding market. Why do you think AA (which traditionally chases mostly business and high-yield oriented markets) hasn't much bothere
152 United1 : Ummmm DL has the second lowest RASM number out there when you adjust for stage length and compare DL to the other 5 network carriers.
153 Steex : While I suppose possible, this seems somewhat unlikely in the grand scheme of the AF/KL/DL/NW union. My understanding is that, in addition to being a
154 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Did European carriers stop flying to ATL? Where do you think those pax are going? The difference is that those passengers that can take multiple comp
155 OA412 : To add to what you've already stated, reports are also that NCE enjoys pretty healthy J demand year-round. Furthermore, many on here did report that
156 Panamair : NCE has strong J demand in the peak seasons (spring, summer, early fall) - and has the best kind of J demand - wealthy individuals who, no matter how
157 OA412 : Ahh thanks for the correction. You're right about AF though. It's strange that NCE (a long established route dating from the PA days) wasn't even inc
158 Incitatus : If that's the case, you may want to spare handing out criticism, as you have done previously like below: By writing absurdities such as Delta is maki
159 Jfk777 : The only market in Italy with decent premuim traffic similar to other Europeanhus is Milano. Rome's big attraction is the Vatican, hardly a deep pool
160 777gk : Maybe so. I cannot deny that DL has done a great job. Still, you have to compare apples to apples. CO has a greater percentage of its total ASMs dedi
161 LAXDESI : FWIW, fuel burn on ATL-BOM(7,400 nm) will be around 40,000 gallons, 3000 gallons higher than on JFK-BOM--about $4.4 million higher fuel costs annually
162 Airzim : Interesting that WT also fails to note the costs associated with operating an LR vs an ER. I would assume that the trip costs and CASM's are higher fo
163 WorldTraveler : Not documented does not mean non existent. Traffic in new int’l markets is very hard to track… but it sure doesn’t mean it’s not there. There
164 Ncelhr : Loads do not exactly "stink" in the winter. DL has a reduced schedule (something like 4/7) which ensured good loads. Furthermore the winter season ab
165 OA412 : And therein lies your problem. You twist people's words in order to suit your own agenda. I never said DL is making money on JFK-BOM. I said they did
166 Bobnwa : Don't AF and DL share revenue on all trans-atlantic flights rather than just those to France, like NW and KL do. If not will that come in time? NW an
167 777gk : Perhaps...but how can you make that statement? On what basis can Continental and Delta's performance be compared to the point that a clear 'winner' c
168 Airzim : At cruise, still have to get the damn thing in the air. See what? You proved nothing, again ignoring or overlooking facts since they get in the way o
169 Lemurs : Here's my perspective as a traveler demographic that DL has been trying to court. I am a loyal ex-CO flyer who has recently switched to DL in the last
170 Jumbojet : here's the thing though. being that all JFK to CDG flights will soon be on all AF metal, then as a plat medallion member with Delta, will I be able t
171 MaverickM11 : One of the carriers had almost 100 international capable widebodies that were flying mostly domestic runs. That carrier is also fresh out of BK. Name
172 Post contains links Panamair : Actually, Ibelieve the first phase of the JV currently in effect only covers CDG-JFK/ATL/CVG/SLC, LHR-JFK/ATL/LAX, and LYS-JFK. NCE-JFK has specifica
173 Panamair : Not currently (and I'm not aware of any plans to change that). I have several such reservations on the 118/119 in the later part of the year, and the
174 PlanesNTrains : Amazing how simple of a concept that is, yet is completely ingnored, or worse, touted as genious. If CO had 100 763ER's sitting around flying IAH-LAS
175 Lemurs : I agree, the BF product is getting long in the tooth, but it is consistent at least, and once the AVOD conversion is done, it will hold over until th
176 LAXDESI : My current estimate of Indian American population for the state of Georgia is around 75,000. A simple rule of thumb that I have developed is 1.3 trips
177 Misbeehavin : Ha! I know a lot of them here in Atlanta, and only one has made a trip to the motherland in the last 5 years. The rest haven't been in a long time -
178 OA412 : Wonder why this is? You'd think that if they want the JV to work seemlessly that things like this would be taken care of relatively quickly. AFAIK ev
179 LAXDESI : My estimate is based on India-USA data from DGCA. You clearly did not read this part in my post: I didn't say every Indian makes that trip. The rule
180 747MegaTop : any idea what will be the routing and other logistics for this really ultra long haul?
181 Behramjee : So its confirmed that DL will be suspending JFK-BOM nonstop flights in favor of ATL-BOM nonstop as it can attract more feeder traffic from its bigger
182 OOer : If AI was doing as bad as everyone said (40-50% LF) why didn't DL just put up with them for a bit longer until they discontinued their service and the
183 OA412 : Those were the reported loads when during the flights first few months. I believe they've gone up since then but don't have any recent data to confir
184 Jumbojet : So basically then if I want to purchase a Y,B,M ticket and upgrade on a flight to, or connecting through CDG, it will be impossible to do so unless I
185 N839MH : I believe the move from JFK to ATL-BOM is very good. Especially speaking from a DFW point of view. With Freedoms so unreliable service to/from JFK wit
186 Ocracoke : I'm late to this party, and just skimmed through the 180+ posts, and I think I only saw one person mention it, but...... ....maybe this has more to do
187 STT757 : The 787-8 which NWA has 18 on order are the smaller, shorter range version. The 787-9 is the larger , longer range version which is the best seller o
188 Jfk777 : Delta seems to be putting all its eggs in Atlanta and sacfricing every other hub including JFK for ATL, why ? ATL is important to DL but not teh only
189 Jacobin777 : Who? Who? ...wasn't LAX supposed to be a hub as well?
190 STT757 : And FLL/MIA.
191 OA412 : There was never talk of FLL/MIA becoming a hub. The talk (that came from 2 very credible sources) was that there were rumors swirling that MIA would
192 Jacobin777 : Going up against AA from there? Wouldn't have been the smartest move in the world..
193 STT757 : Hub, gateway, focus city whatever you want to refer to it as there were announced (here) intentions to do something in South Florida, something turne
194 Oa412 : Apparently, it was supposed to be a small gateway focused on O/D to Carribean/Central America destinations but not to deep South America. At least th
195 Clo1973 : CO transported 40.000 pax in 2007 between Cali (CLO) and Houston (IAH), which gives you an average load of about 60-65%. I would not call that "horri
196 SESGDL : If you went back and searched threads it was actually MAH4546, so calling out WT here is not the right idea. DL in fact, (according to my "sources")
197 Yellowtail : I will do a "WorldTravelerism" : SOURCE PLEASE! Well, if the source told you this then they need to be fired for breach of security.... and if it is
198 STT757 : Apparently CO is reinstating IAH-CLO and IAH-GYE.
199 DeltaL1011man : You sound like Ron Allen. (or was it Leo) "No money in Cargo" Shoot If DL had gotten the PA hub in MIA DL would be doing just fine in MIA. If you rem
200 Clo1973 : Are you sure?...what is the source?.....I hope so!, it is always sad to lose international service from a major airline; and as I said before I belie
201 Jacobin777 : It still would have been a bad move.. ...MIA would have been a disaster.. Sans WN, had all the carreirs hedged fuel back in the $50's, they would hav
202 MCOAviationFan : This move to change the gateway for the BOM flight from JFK to ATL surprises me. I was under the impression that the JFK-BOM flight was doing well. Ye
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta ATL-LAX With The 777? posted Fri Mar 14 2003 02:35:34 by Soku39
DL ATL-BOM (a/c Change In JFK)? posted Sun Jul 27 2008 20:23:22 by Swissair4ever
DL To Start ATL-TGU With New 73W (737-700) posted Tue Jul 22 2008 11:51:14 by Panamair
Delta Requests ATL Runway Extension posted Wed Jul 2 2008 16:40:57 by Alitalia744
Delta Reaches Joint Contract With DAL/NWA Pilots posted Tue Jun 24 2008 12:53:02 by FFlyerWorld
Delta Resumes ATL-YHZ, Starts JFK-YHZ posted Wed May 28 2008 22:24:03 by Flynavy
Delta Airlines 17 BOM - JFK Delayed By 9 Hours posted Sun May 25 2008 21:37:03 by Ojas
How Many Delta Domestic 767-300s With PTVs? posted Sun Mar 2 2008 20:00:02 by WindowSeat
ATL-PVG To 77L Eff. 3/30/08, China CTOs Open posted Mon Feb 11 2008 19:52:31 by Flynavy
Delta Now Considers A Merger With Continental posted Thu Jan 31 2008 16:11:24 by LAXintl
ATL-PVG To 77L Eff. 3/30/08, China CTOs Open posted Mon Feb 11 2008 19:52:31 by Flynavy
Delta ATL-LAX With The 777? posted Fri Mar 14 2003 02:35:34 by Soku39
DL ATL-BOM (a/c Change In JFK)? posted Sun Jul 27 2008 20:23:22 by Swissair4ever
DL To Start ATL-TGU With New 73W (737-700) posted Tue Jul 22 2008 11:51:14 by Panamair
Delta Requests ATL Runway Extension posted Wed Jul 2 2008 16:40:57 by Alitalia744
Delta Reaches Joint Contract With DAL/NWA Pilots posted Tue Jun 24 2008 12:53:02 by FFlyerWorld
Delta Resumes ATL-YHZ, Starts JFK-YHZ posted Wed May 28 2008 22:24:03 by Flynavy
Delta Airlines 17 BOM - JFK Delayed By 9 Hours posted Sun May 25 2008 21:37:03 by Ojas
How Many Delta Domestic 767-300s With PTVs? posted Sun Mar 2 2008 20:00:02 by WindowSeat
ATL-PVG To 77L Eff. 3/30/08, China CTOs Open posted Mon Feb 11 2008 19:52:31 by Flynavy