ThaiA345 From Indonesia, joined Oct 2006, 551 posts, RR: 2 Posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
Hi Guys,
original black box voice recorder regarding the final moments of the fateful Adam Air Flight 574.
The voice recording has been played over and over again on all Indonesia TV news channel the entire day.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 8593 posts, RR: 34 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5294 times:
I'd be very surprised if these were accurate; while it is expected that an accident investigation authority would release transcripts of conversations in the cockpit, only accident investigators and interested parties (pilots union representatives, for example) are allowed to hear actual recordings.
I see no reason why the Indonesian accident investigators would choose to depart from this practice.
Whoever created these tapes should face criminal charges and I trust that the Indonesian prosecuting authorities will act accordingly.
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?" "Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world".
Richierich From United States, joined Nov 2000, 3233 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5154 times:
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1): I remember this incident well, though I never recall them finding the wreckage.
Some floating debris was spotted in the days or weeks after this crash. I believe the main crash site was eventually located and the black boxes were retrieved from the ocean floor. I don't know how many victims were recovered though.
Sad. Not sure if this is the actual recording or just a production made by re-enacting the transcript of the CVR. Its a sad crash and it was a horrible way to start off 2007.
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5144 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 2): Word on the street that these are FAKE.
Word on the street in neighbouring Malaysia is that they are real. Indo government, this bastion of truths, says they are fake and that leads me to belive they are real....
Word is also that several pilots have identified the voices.
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3): Whoever created these tapes should face criminal charges and I trust that the Indonesian prosecuting authorities will act accordingly.
Haha, yeah right.
Ever done business with Indonesia?
No offence but you come across as rather blueeyed...
Even is this is a crime in Indonesia I very much doubt that any resources will be put towards finding the guilty party unless of course this someone that leaked the tapes stopped an attempted cover up. Then you will see efficiency.
There is always more to things than meets the eye in this fascinating and different country.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care. Millwall against the world!
RichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 598 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4989 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Why is it that CVR's are usually kept private and not made public? I don't see the big issue, (not saying there isn't one) especially once the final report has been made.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 8593 posts, RR: 34 Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4766 times:
Quoting RichM (Reply 6): Why is it that CVR's are usually kept private and not made public?
It would be very upsetting for the families, friends and colleagues of the deceased pilots to hear their loved ones'/colleagues' last words, often in a state of serious panic, or realisation that the end is imminent. Take the TAM A320 CVR transcript, released just this week. Reading it is painful enough. And remember that Aeroflot A310, back in 1994 (I think); how would the wife/ mother feel, hearing those last words and actions in the cockpit?
At the end of the day, releasing these tapes would do nothing to help in finding a cause; it would only cause upset - avoidable upset.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 5): Ever done business with Indonesia?
No offence but you come across as rather blueeyed...
Haven't ever done business in Indonesia (or been there); spelling it is an achievement in itself!
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?" "Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world".
RedFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 33 Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4730 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 7): Quoting RichM (Reply 6):
Why is it that CVR's are usually kept private and not made public?
It would be very upsetting for the families, friends and colleagues of the deceased pilots to hear their loved ones'/colleagues' last words, often in a state of serious panic, or realisation that the end is imminent. Take the TAM A320 CVR transcript, released just this week. Reading it is painful enough. And remember that Aeroflot A310, back in 1994 (I think); how would the wife/ mother feel, hearing those last words and actions in the cockpit?
Personally, I think those notions are a hold-over from a long ago period when life was more insulated. In this day and age of open information, I think it's ridiculous to withhold such information or, alternatively, to publish a sterilized version in the form of transcripts only. There are plenty of people who will tell you that to hear the voices of their loved ones in their final moments does provide a sense of closure. Besides, if these recordings are a cause of anguish to the loved ones then they need not listen to them; it's easily avoided. But, as I said, that's just my personal belief. And it's not from a morbid desire on my part to listen to such things - I haven't listened to the recording, if that's what it is, on the OP's link and have no desire to do so. I'm just a firm believer in open and accessible information for all, especially when it comes to things that involve a government entity such as an investigating arm.
F9Animal From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3393 posts, RR: 36 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4437 times:
Quoting RichM (Reply 6): Why is it that CVR's are usually kept private and not made public? I don't see the big issue, (not saying there isn't one) especially once the final report has been made.
I agree. I would be interested in hearing all of them. I feel some closure in these when I hear them, and it also helps me understand things a little better. It also helps to hear it for yourself. Transcripts are nice, but it helps to hear the voices. Am I morbid? I don't really think so. I think I could say that it interests me to hear the CVR's from crashes.
Afterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4382 times:
Some of the relatives and friends of the deceased pilots have said that they are almost 100% sure that the voices in the recording are really the voices of the pilots. There was also a rumor that a computer was stolen from the office of the National Transportation Safety Committee (it might contain the copy of the cockpit voice recording).
ThaiA345 From Indonesia, joined Oct 2006, 551 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4260 times:
Quoting Afterburner (Reply 12): There was also a rumor that a computer was stolen from the office of the National Transportation Safety Committee
well, this is Indonesia afterall and amazing things like this always happens. But for one, I agree with Ryanair and by hearing the voices and all the alarms and warnings going off in the cockpit, I do concur this is 100% authentic.
Atleast this crash brought into focus the need for upset recovery procedures during the SIM sessions and infact i am glad that i do have that in my A320 Type rating lessons.
Short summary on cause of the crash:
This accident resulted from a combination of factors, including the failure of the pilots to adequately monitor the flight instruments, particularly during the final 2 minutes of the flight. Preoccupation with a malfunction of the Inertial Reference System (IRS) diverted both pilots’ attention from the flight instruments and allowed the increasing descent and bank angle to go unnoticed. The pilots did not detect and appropriately arrest the descent soon enough to prevent loss of control.
At the time of the accident, AdamAir did not provide their pilots with IRS malfunction corrective action training in the simulator, nor did they provide aircraft upset recovery training in accordance with the Airplane Upset Recovery Training Aid developed by Boeing and Airbus.
In accordance with Civil Aviation Safety Regulations, Indonesian operators are required to provide training in emergency or abnormal situations or procedures. However, at the time of the accident, the Indonesian regulations did not specifically require upset recovery to be included in their flight operations training.
Ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4296 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4127 times:
Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 15): Preoccupation with a malfunction of the Inertial Reference System (IRS) diverted both pilots’ attention from the flight instruments and allowed the increasing descent and bank angle to go unnoticed. The pilots did not detect and appropriately arrest the descent soon enough to prevent loss of control.
Wait a minute... This accident DID happen in brought daylight no? With a horizon reference, the bank and descent went UN-NOTICED?
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
Bapilot2b From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 895 posts, RR: 35 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3969 times:
Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 16): Wait a minute... This accident DID happen in brought daylight no? With a horizon reference, the bank and descent went UN-NOTICED?
Not if the aircraft was in cloud when this happened so thus loss of orientation.
SQA350 From Thailand, joined Apr 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3959 times:
Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 16): Wait a minute... This accident DID happen in brought daylight no? With a horizon reference, the bank and descent went UN-NOTICED?
I remember that the weather was very bad at the time of the crash. I think they didn't have a horizon.
"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
Group51 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 50 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3296 times:
Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 15): Atleast this crash brought into focus the need for upset recovery procedures during the SIM sessions and infact i am glad that i do have that in my A320 Type rating lessons.
Sorry, but is that sort of roll possible in the A320? I mean, rolling out of control without sufficient corrective input.
Flyhigh@tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
Quoting Group51 (Reply 19): Sorry, but is that sort of roll possible in the A320? I mean, rolling out of control without sufficient corrective input.
NO...when the A320 is in the normal law it is not possible for such a scenario to happen. Without sustained side stick pressure it is not possible to roll the aircraft to beyond 33 degs of roll. All the new generation aircraft (though it amazes me that the A320 flew way back in the late 80s) have envelope protection.
BUT having said said that both Boeing and Airbus have upset recovery procedures for such an event...its just sad that many airlines do not mandate the training. I guess their argument could be that first of all how can you let an aircraft roll over to 100 degrees without arresting the roll! (By the way my friend who is a 737NG pilot told me of a session where they performed a barrel roll in the FFS... )
I am also surprised that the aircraft started rolling to the right at FL350...and this happened during cruise...probably cabin service would have been ongoing. I should imagine trays or glasses of water spilling off etc. Usually the Flight purser or some FA would contact the flight deck to ask what was going on. Unfortunately the CVR transcripts show that there was no call or interference from the cabin crew also when the aircraft continued its dangerous roll beyond 60 degs The Boeing QRH does have this procedure...but when the aircraft was at a 100 deg roll it also had a 46000+ fpm rate of descent...means they plunged into the sea from FL350 in just abt a minute. hardly any time to look at the QRH
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4546 posts, RR: 60 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2910 times:
Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 16): Wait a minute... This accident DID happen in brought daylight no? With a horizon reference, the bank and descent went UN-NOTICED?
It is generally suspected that the accident happened in IMC...
Anyways, based on the FDR and CVR transcripts and now this "recording", we suspect hat the F/O had tried to arrest the roll only to be told by the Capt. "Don't turn it" as he was trying to maintain heading... he also asked for IRS-L to be put to ATT due to lack of training with partial IRS malfunction, and the F/O somehow put IRS-R to ATT... this meant that the Captain thought the bank angle warning and his instruments were showing false readings... he got spatially disoriented.
Someone who flew the same jet a few days before had a similar problem, his solution was, "leave it alone, and ensure you're within Navaid range, and write a damn nasty tech entry"... he lived... since he was quitting the company at the time (he was fed up with the lack of maintenance and the cr4p safety they had to put up with)...
Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 20): I should imagine trays or glasses of water spilling off etc. Usually the Flight purser or some FA would contact the flight deck to ask what was going on.
It was a slow roll, but have yet to see whether it was coordinated... When it's up to 30 degs, the cabin crew wouldn't do a thing, but by the time it's 60... not much you can do... And if you read the G readings in the FDR, nothign would be crashing around the cabin until the G meter flipped from +ve to -ve... by then, the airframe noise and the pilot's screams would overcome the sounds from the cabin... when we hear the "thump thump"... they were doomed... *sigh*
What's more ironic, Adam Air was forced to close down after a runway excursion... and not this crash...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
LeftWing From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2773 times:
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 21): What's more ironic, Adam Air was forced to close down after a runway excursion... and not this crash...
...the Indonesian DGCA should have taken stronger steps...EU still has not cleared Indonesian airlines....not much is being done to improve the situation...
GFFgold From Indonesia, joined Feb 2007, 394 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2402 times:
Nothing much is being done because the air safety regulator function is a cash-cow for all who manage it. I understand from airline insiders that fairly hefty back-handers are required to register a frame as 'PK', and of course you can't operate domestic routes with foreign registered planes. As no Indonesian operators currently fly to the EU the corresponding ban has little immediate financial impact - though it is a source of extreme embarrasment - and in Indonesia as a whole things only happen as a result of immediate financial impact.
There have been moves recently to wrest control of the regulator from the hopelessly corrupt transportation ministry and to establish an independent body, but in all honesty if that 'independent' body is controlled by the usual circle of well-connected individuals then it's hard to guarantee any improvement.
Contracting out part of the regulatory oversight to an international organisation might work, but is politically impossible.
PlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2131 times:
If it's a fake, it's a very accurate one. According to the accident report: "A thump, thump
sound, which coincided with the time of the sudden flight load reversal, was
evident on the CVR about 20 seconds from the end of the recorded data. The
thump, thump sound on the CVR was verified by spectrum analysis and
determined to be typical of a structural failure."
In this recording, the thumps are audible at 5:12, the end of recording is at 5:32:
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4546 posts, RR: 60 Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1856 times:
Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 20): NO...when the A320 is in the normal law it is not possible for such a scenario to happen. Without sustained side stick pressure it is not possible to roll the aircraft to beyond 33 degs of roll. All the new generation aircraft (though it amazes me that the A320 flew way back in the late 80s) have envelope protection.
Exactly, on the 320, this accident wouldn't happen, because, either it would have had an earlier accident due to the maintenance screwups at Adam, or, wouldn't have taken off at all for the same reason! *evil grin*
Adam Air Owner, Sandra Ang, has been reported to the police... unfortunately not for her role in this accident, but for accusations of corruption on shareholder funds and/or scamming.... can't remember...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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The Boeing QRH does have this procedure...but when the aircraft was at a 100 deg roll it also had a 46000+ fpm rate of descent...means they plunged into the sea from FL350 in just abt a minute. hardly any time to look at the QRH 
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