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First 787 Cancellation-from Azerbijan Airlines  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15084 times:

...which changed their order from three 787's into a new oder for two 737's and two 767 -300 ER,while maintaining an order for two 787's..

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...tilitiesNews/idUSN0732640420080807

[Edited 2008-08-07 11:28:17]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15041 times:
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Well hardly a tragedy. Heck, Boeing might come out ahead on the total deal.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 14985 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
and two 767 -300 ER

Nice to see the venerable 76 gain a couple of new orders.  Smile


User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 14933 times:

Thanks for the link....

Well they need lift now and cannot wait. And while only one plane has been cancelled, it is a cancellation nonetheless.

I expect that slot to be snapped up quickly  Smile



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14619 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
Nice to see the venerable 76 gain a couple of new orders

Will these be new build's or off the 2nd hand market? Hopefully the former!



Cha brro
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14538 times:



Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 4):
Will these be new build's or off the 2nd hand market? Hopefully the former!

New build.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4342 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14493 times:

there are already more airlines which originally were reported to order and then backed out, Primaris never firmed them up, and and Xiamen changed their allocation for more 737s.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14119 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 5):
New build.

Nice...Hope they slap some winglets on it as well



Cha brro
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13908 times:

They're probably kinda shooting themselves in the foot, in the long run that is. Their competitors will be flying the more effiecient 787 while they're still operating 767s.


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13900 times:



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 8):
They're probably kinda shooting themselves in the foot, in the long run that is. Their competitors will be flying the more effiecient 787 while they're still operating 767s.

Depends - if they get their 767s two or three years before their competitors get their 787s, they have been flying nice new 767s and getting profits on those flights for two or three years verses not doing those flights and not getting those profits.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13880 times:
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Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 8):
They're probably kinda shooting themselves in the foot, in the long run that is. Their competitors will be flying the more effiecient 787 while they're still operating 767s.

They're still taking two 787s. So they seem to be addressing both current needs (767 + 737) and future (787)

[Edited 2008-08-07 14:38:23]

User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13880 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 9):
Depends - if they get their 767s two or three years before their competitors get their 787s, they have been flying nice new 767s and getting profits on those flights for two or three years verses not doing those flights and not getting those profits.

Yeah, you do have a point there. I hang out at a site related to audio/video hobbies. Everyone there was telling me to wait for "X new technology" before I bought a large LCD TV. I told them I'd be enjoying my LCD in the time that they're waiting for the new technology.  Silly



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13785 times:

So an airline decided it could not wait for 3 delayed Boeing WB's, bought a different Boeing WB with earlier delivery and converted 1 of the delayed WB orders to the same WB offering earler delivery. Net result being 1 extra widebody order. Bet that worried Boeing!

User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13741 times:



Quoting Art (Reply 12):
So an airline decided it could not wait for 3 delayed Boeing WB's, bought a different Boeing WB with earlier delivery and converted 1 of the delayed WB orders to the same WB offering earler delivery. Net result being 1 extra widebody order. Bet that worried Boeing!

And they get to move up everyone after the canceled slot to help make up for the delays.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12422 times:

Nort good. I wonder how many more orders will be canceled???

chuck


User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11902 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 14):
Nort good. I wonder how many more orders will be canceled???

It's not "good" but certainly isn't bad. Losing one order (from a giant orderbook) but getting four more orders? A net gain of three isn't too shabby!  Wink


User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

Maybe they'll add APB winglets to these two birds straight from the factory. Would bring efficiency numbers a little closer to the 787's in which they cancelled.

Desmond in ILM,



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10174 times:

when were they suppose to recieve that 787 they cancelled?

If they had releatively early delivery slots , then I bet they got a really sweet deal from Boeing.

Could they have sold that 787 delivery slots to a third party?
I bet we wount see any proper cancellations for the 787. They might be relallocated to a different ac but no cancellations.
An airline can make a few bucks by selling its 787 to a third party if they have slots up until 2013


User currently offlineHrvhow1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7494 times:

Couldnt Boeing Deliver the 767 with new technology using the upgraded wing from the 767-400 a newer engine and use the cock-pit of the 787 and call it the 767NG

User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7332 times:



Quoting Hrvhow1 (Reply 18):
Couldnt Boeing Deliver the 767 with new technology using the upgraded wing from the 767-400 a newer engine and use the cock-pit of the 787 and call it the 767NG

What sort of investment would that require and would it generate a RoI?


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Also, it's not like they are the most competed after airline, plus I think they have tons of domestically produced fuel out there. Wonder about refining capabilities though. It mustn't be a great concern to them or to Boeing. However I do wonder how nice the deal was sweetened.


I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineMav75 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6796 times:

I thought all versions of the 767 (except the 764) were out of production? Not counting the tankers I believe Boeing are building...

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4995 times:
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Quoting Amirs (Reply 17):
when were they suppose to receive that 787 they canceled?

The announcement did not give a delivery date, but since was February 2007, I expect it was later, especially since J2 said they needed the 767-300ER sooner then they could get their first 787.



Quoting Hrvhow1 (Reply 18):
Couldn't Boeing deliver the 767 with new technology using the upgraded wing from the 767-400 a newer engine and use the cock-pit of the 787 and call it the 767NG

At this point in the program, it's likely not worth any investment in the 767 line.

Mind you, I do believe they should dust-off the plans for the 767-400ERX and pitch it for the KC-X RFP.



Quoting Mav75 (Reply 21):
I thought all versions of the 767 (except the 764) were out of production? Not counting the tankers I believe Boeing are building...

Almost all models of the 767 are still either in production or available. This year Boeing has delivered the 767-200ER, 767-300F, 767-300ER and 767-400ER.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4936 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well hardly a tragedy. Heck, Boeing might come out ahead on the total deal.

Nobody likes to have a cancellation.

Adding 2 767s in place of the delayed 787 is probably a net positive for the bottom line, though. They'll get their money sooner, and it marginally decreases the delay payments due to an airline or two if they move up in line. Though moving up 1 spot doesn't do much for other airlines.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4859 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 9):
Depends - if they get their 767s two or three years before their competitors get their 787s, they have been flying nice new 767s and getting profits on those flights for two or three years verses not doing those flights and not getting those profits.

As a.nutters, we're all excited about the introduction of the 787...but let's face it...how many people 2-3 years down the line will be able to really tell the difference between a 787 and 767? Most people won't even be able to tell and even if they can tell, they won't care....


25 TylerDurden : Huge tragedy. Epic. I'm betting Boeing would actually encourage more 'cancellations' like this.....
26 Ikramerica : Well, compared to a very modern 767 like CO's? Probably not. Inside, the CO looks like a 777. But when passengers board a new DL 787 they will absolu
27 Kanban : While it may appear that later a/c move up a slot in the firing order position wise, Boeing may leave them where they are delivery date wise and add s
28 VC10DC10 : Has Delta ordered the 787? How did I miss that?
29 Steex : As of now, they'll just come to DL by way of NW. No direct DL order that you missed!
30 VC10DC10 : Aha, but that's not guaranteed to happen... DL and NW haven't even shown up at the church for the wedding yet.
31 Stitch : Which just makes the fact that being able to meet traffic demand now with a 767 is better then losing those sales by waiting for the 787.
32 Ikramerica : True, but because NW doesn't fly 767s, and DL has some rather old ones, and because people would then say "but there will never be a 787 in NW colors
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