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DL/EV To Close HHH  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

The HHH-ATL flights have been removed from OAG. Looks like the flights go away with the December schedule.

It will probably show in Res system by Sunday.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

We learned this before it was official, so it does deserve its own thread. When all the pieces lined up before though (ATRs being removed elsewhere) we knew it was true.

Nice to see that MOB will never again have ATRs to ATL!


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4636 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 1):
We learned this before it was official, so it does deserve its own thread.

I didn't want to tuck it at the bottom of the other thread since it is no longer unofficial.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4363 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
I didn't want to tuck it at the bottom of the other thread since it is no longer unofficial.

Of course. I agree. I was just saying that before someone said it was covered.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

If DL ever gets some newer turboprops, I suspect they'll be back.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

If DL draws down MEM to more of a focus city, I suspect they will move the Saabs to ATL to maintain/restore service in markets where 50 seat jets don't make sense economically or are limited operationally.

User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3781 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
If DL draws down MEM to more of a focus city, I suspect they will move the Saabs to ATL to maintain/restore service in markets where 50 seat jets don't make sense economically or are limited operationally.

How much more room is there in ATL? Do they really want to use any of whats left on smaller turboprops?

If MEM gets drawn down before CVG, I could see those saabs moving to CVG before they ended up in ATL.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

I agree. The Saab's would be moved to CVG before ATL. Their just is not enough room at ATL for more aircraft. CVG needs to be build back up.

Chuck


User currently offlineFLYjoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

The HHH station was announced a short time after US announced its intent to buy DL. I can't help, but wonder if DL started HHH, in part with all of the discussion at the time about the overlap both US and DL had.

Did HHH really serve a great purpose within DL's route map? I can't remember the penalties the ATR's took because of the short runways and especially with SAV right down the road serving ATL with mainline a/c.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3353 times:



Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 8):
The HHH station was announced a short time after US announced its intent to buy DL. I can't help, but wonder if DL started HHH, in part with all of the discussion at the time about the overlap both US and DL had.

Its possible but I doubt it. I'm sure there are much more significant markets that DL would have added before HHH if they were making a case of overlapping markets.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3144 times:



Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 8):
Did HHH really serve a great purpose within DL's route map?

Of course it's not THAT important, but I suspect it was profitable. The yields have always been good in HHH and the airport's constraints keep competition limited and prices high. US Airways Express should mint money now.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3079 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
Of course it's not THAT important, but I suspect it was profitable.

Perhaps it was profitable with the ATRs, but it wouldn't hold its own with a CR2/CR7 (I believe that the CR7 has better short field performance?) - or they wouldn't be cutting it. Even the true profitability of the ATR is suspect, because of the cost of the aircraft's line, and the limited number of seat miles to spread it across. Thats generally speaking, in reference to ATR routes.

The HHH-ATL route, however, ranks as #500 of 516 domestic routes that DL operated in Q1 2008, in terms of stage adjusted RASM, and had average leg/segment revenue of only $2,578; so I doubt it was profitable. The LF was just over 45%.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2969 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 7):
Their just is not enough room at ATL for more aircraft

Then again, since the ATRs are going, maybe some SF3s or even (my hope) some DH8-400s could find a place in ATL.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 7):
CVG needs to be build back up.

I wonder, though, if it will be at all what with DTW just up north.

In any case, HHH is resigned to those old rattletrapUS Dash8s of Piedmont again for the forseeable furute. Bleccccch!


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2935 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 12):
Then again, since the ATRs are going, maybe some SF3s or even (my hope) some DH8-400s could find a place in ATL.

I doubt theyll replace an ATR with an aircraft roughl half its size.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2729 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 13):
I doubt theyll replace an ATR with an aircraft roughl half its size.

Dash 8-400s are roughly the same size as an ATR72, no? 68 seats?


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2678 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 14):
Dash 8-400s are roughly the same size as an ATR72, no? 68 seats?

Yes, but you mentioned Saabs as well. 34 seats. My comment wouldnt have applied to the DH8.


User currently offlineArt at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 180 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Is ASA getting rid of ALL the ATR's? I thought they were relatively new.

HHH is a loss...US is on my do not fly list, so I guess I will take the scenic drive from SAV.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2627 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 15):
Yes, but you mentioned Saabs as well. 34 seats. My comment wouldnt have applied to the DH8.

Its a shame the Saab2000 isn't being produced any longer. It was really a bit ahead of its time, as back then the RJ craze (props bad, jets good) was just beginning. Nowadays the market for a high speed large capacity turboprop is there. Who'd have thunk it!

Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 16):
HHH is a loss...US is on my do not fly list, so I guess I will take the scenic drive from SAV.

It's not too bad a drive really. And unfortunately, the NIMBYs in HH have no intention of letting that airport be expanded. So it looks like our choice from now on will be that drive from SAV or (sigh ....) the US CLT connection.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2541 times:



Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 16):
Is ASA getting rid of ALL the ATR's? I thought they were relatively new.

Yes, as of December 1.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2509 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 11):
Perhaps it was profitable with the ATRs, but it wouldn't hold its own with a CR2/CR7 (I believe that the CR7 has better short field performance?) - or they wouldn't be cutting it.

The runway is 3,700 feet long. That is not that far from STOL (2000'). I don't think any RJ has that kind of performance...at least with any kind of payload.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2483 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 19):
The runway is 3,700 feet long. That is not that far from STOL (2000'). I don't think any RJ has that kind of performance...at least with any kind of payload.

Is all of that 3,700 even usable?


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2446 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 19):
The runway is 3,700 feet long. That is not that far from STOL (2000'). I don't think any RJ has that kind of performance...at least with any kind of payload.

I see that HHH has a 4300 ft runway, and CR7s are used in EYW, which has a 4800 ft runway. That 500 feet may make a ton of difference, but I wouldn't know.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

I'm assuming we're talking about Hilton Head, SC?

Just wondering, as when I popped "HHH" into Airnav, I got:

Quote:

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 31 JULY 2008
Location
FAA Identifier: HXD
Lat/Long: 32-13-27.7000N / 080-41-50.9000W
32-13.461667N / 080-41.848333W
32.2243611 / -80.6974722
(estimated)
Elevation: 19 ft. / 5.8 m (surveyed)
Variation: 07W (2005)
From city: 3 miles E of HILTON HEAD ISLAND, SC
Time zone: UTC -4 (UTC -5 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 29926


So I'll take it the IATA code and FAA LID (Location Identifier) aren't coincidental here at KHXD  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2417 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 21):


Quoting Enilria (Reply 19):
The runway is 3,700 feet long. That is not that far from STOL (2000'). I don't think any RJ has that kind of performance...at least with any kind of payload.

I see that HHH has a 4300 ft runway, and CR7s are used in EYW, which has a 4800 ft runway. That 500 feet may make a ton of difference, but I wouldn't know.

The CR7 could probably do it with minimal restriction considering its only a 40 minute flight, but the economics of the route would hit the fan.


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2334 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):
So I'll take it the IATA code and FAA LID (Location Identifier) aren't coincidental here at KHXD

You are correct.
IATA: HHH
ICAO: KHXD
FAA: HXD


25 Flyf15 : 4800ft is already exceptionally short... I doubt you could get a CRJ-700 into and out of a 4300ft runway unless it was empty. I'd be surprised if you
26 MSYtristar : CR2 wouldn't even be an option. CR7 has better short field performance due in part to having leading edge slats which the CR2 does not have.
27 KcrwFlyer : I thought the 700 was more capable than that? maybe not. Last week a few rj's used runway 33 here (4700ft.), while 23 was closed after an emergency l
28 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yields aren't that great in HHH anymore. The reason is that it is has to be somewhat competitive with SAV. Over the past 10 years, with significantly
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