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NW Flights Out Of AMS  
User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

Saw this picture ( http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/1378055/L/ )and it got me wondering how many flights NW operates out of AMS on a daily basis and if DL will keep NW's hub at AMS?

[Edited 2008-08-11 02:41:14]

[Edited 2008-08-11 02:43:16]


united - It's time to fly!
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7240 times:

Man, I'm happy NW brought back the 747, but I still miss those DC10's, as I will miss NW's c/s when these are all DL aircraft.

I don't know exactly how many daily departures NW has from AMS, but I think it's around 20. They fly to MSP, DTW, EWR, Portland, SEA.

IMHO the DL merger will not have a big effect on the partnership. There may be some repositioning, but especially the MSP, DTW and SEA flights will stay.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7236 times:

Although the frequencies tend to vary from season to season, NWs operations ex AMS are as follows (all daily).

SEA: 1x A330
PDX: 1x A330
BDL: 1x 752 (will cease after summer)
DTW: 1x 744, 2x 330, 1x 752 (and 1x KL 772)
MSP: 3x 330
MEM: 1x 330
BOS: 1x 330, 1x 752 (will continue as 1x 330 during the winter)
EWR: 2x 757
BOM: 1x 330

Besides these flights, NW codeshares with KLM on flights to LAX, SFO, IAH, DFW, ATL, IAD, JFK, ORD.

It is highly likely that the new DL-NW will keep AMS as a hub. The current DL already has quite extensive operations to AMS (flights from JFK, ATL and CVG) and KLM will be a major partner for NW-DL. Basically, AF-KL will offer a dual-hub product in Europe.

I expect that they will shuffle frequencies (for example: more ATL and JFK), equipment and operators considerably, but the size of the operations will remain quite similar. The AMS hub is a major asset for the Skyteam carriers and offers many connections that are not served ex CDG. With the AF-KL group, KLM (ex AMS) focuses on the UK, Scandinavia and the Baltics, whereas AF (ex CDG) focuses on southern and eastern Europe.

[Edited 2008-08-11 02:57:24]

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7227 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 2):
SEA: 1x A330
PDX: 1x A330
BDL: 1x 752 (will cease after summer)
DTW: 1x 744, 2x 330, 1x 752 (and 1x KL 772)
MSP: 3x 330
MEM: 1x 330
BOS: 1x 330, 1x 752 (will continue as 1x 330 during the winter)
EWR: 2x 757
BOM: 1x 330

So, 16, I was not that far off after all...  Wink At certain times of the day it feels like AMS is more a NW hub than a KL hub. For long haul at least...



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

I was wondering the same last week when I was at work and drove past E-pier and saw more than 10 NW a/c on the ground at one time. Almost like E-pier is owned by NW. Pretty sight though.

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineNW From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6754 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):
Besides these flights, NW codeshares with KLM on flights to LAX, SFO, IAH, DFW, ATL, IAD, JFK, ORD.

They more than codeshare, it's a joint venture. They operate as one carrier on all these mentioned routes.


User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

I'm wondering if the NW ops at AMS is the biggest in Europe for a USA carrier?
How many flights does AA, UA, CO, DL, US have respectively at i.e. CDG / LHR / LGW / FRA?

Regards, Flyingfool


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6605 times:

NW will be adding another flight to IAD with a 757.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6530 times:



Quoting Flyingfool (Reply 6):
I'm wondering if the NW ops at AMS is the biggest in Europe for a USA carrier?

The biggest is probably AA from LHR -

JFK 105/115/131/107/141
BOS 109/155
ORD 67/87/47/99/91
RDU 173
DFW 79/51
MIA 57
LAX 137/135

18 Flights, all T7



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6392 times:



Quoting Flyingfool (Reply 6):
How many flights does AA, UA, CO, DL, US have respectively at i.e. CDG / LHR / LGW / FRA?

AA runs a similar "hub" at LHR. I don't like to call it a hub but rather a (large) (operational) base or a gateway as hub implies connections and not a mere concentration of flights. But it's just an opinion.
NW doesn't use AMS as a spoke flying from hub to a destination and back to the hub. The aircrafts can and do fly from AMS to several points in the US, not just NW bases, and BOM using 5th freedom rights.
A very similar operation is used by AA at LHR but with less flights.

On the contrary EU airlines don't run those bases in the US because, until 4 months ago, US airlines could operate from an EU airport back to any US airport while EU airlines had to fly back to their countries with a rather limited choice of routes.
Now an EU airline doing running a base in JFK is Openskies.


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2589 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6340 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bastiaan Smeets



Sorry couldn't resists . . . such a beautiful sight. Lots of NW and KLM metal!
3x KL 744
2x KL M11
2x KL 772
1x NW 744
2x NW 333
2x NW 332
3x NW 753
Not sure about the one top facing camera head on, on Papa hold, could also be a NW 330?


And some more exotics . . . pretty cool heavy metal stuf  Cool

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6297 times:

Quoting PW100 (Reply 10):
Not sure about the one top facing camera head on, on Papa hold, could also be a NW 330?

It's definately a NW A330.
Probably there are also a couple of NW A330's parked on the J or Y apron, just west of the A4 highway, which is not visible on this picture.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 10):
2x KL 772

I believe the 777 on the E pier is a 77W and the one on the D pier is a 772.

Regards, Flyingfool

[Edited 2008-08-11 13:35:34]

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 6533 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6265 times:



Quoting PW100 (Reply 10):
Sorry couldn't resists . . . such a beautiful sight. Lots of NW and KLM metal!
3x KL 744
2x KL M11
2x KL 772
1x NW 744
2x NW 333
2x NW 332
3x NW 753

NWA does not fly 753's to Europe. those are 752's


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

The KLM flight to/from DTW/AMS is now a B744 unless they just changed it again in the last few days. But, I don't see much changing after the merger. If anything they may add more CDG flights out of DTW.

chuck


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5040 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 13):
The KLM flight to/from DTW/AMS is now a B744 unless they just changed it again in the last few days. But, I don't see much changing after the merger. If anything they may add more CDG flights out of DTW.

When was it a 744? Its been an A332 and now its a 777.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNWASkyking From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

DL will keep all hubs of NW


Safe
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4226 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 2):
SEA: 1x A330
PDX: 1x A330
BDL: 1x 752 (will cease after summer)
DTW: 1x 744, 2x 330, 1x 752 (and 1x KL 772)
MSP: 3x 330
MEM: 1x 330
BOS: 1x 330, 1x 752 (will continue as 1x 330 during the winter)
EWR: 2x 757
BOM: 1x 330

I think Delta will keep the AMS hub, however I believe the aircraft that flies the routes to and from AMS will be right-sized. Delta can put A330's and a 744 to better, more extensive use. I could see the following changes:
PDX: 1x 763ER
BDL: 1x 752 (will cease after summer)
DTW: 1x 764, 3x 763, (and 1x KL 772)
MSP: 2x 763ER, 1x 764
MEM: 1x 763ER
BOS: 2x 752 (year-round)
EWR: 1x 757
BOM: 1x 330 (cancelled for another nonstop from USA ex-JFK or DTW)



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3621 times:



Quoting NW (Reply 5):
They more than codeshare, it's a joint venture. They operate as one carrier on all these mentioned routes.

Not to nitpick, but you quoted the wrong person. Joost said that, not me.

Quoting UA933 (Thread starter):
The KLM flight to/from DTW/AMS is now a B744 unless they just changed it again in the last few days.

Don't you mean that the NW flight to/from DTW is now a 744?



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3035 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 16):
PDX: 1x 763ER
BDL: 1x 752 (will cease after summer)
DTW: 1x 764, 3x 763, (and 1x KL 772)
MSP: 2x 763ER, 1x 764
MEM: 1x 763ER
BOS: 2x 752 (year-round)
EWR: 1x 757
BOM: 1x 330 (cancelled for another nonstop from USA ex-JFK or DTW)

Well I disagree with you a bit and reason being is I have seen the NW loads for most of these flights, let alone flown them.

PDX: 1x 767-300ER Agreed
BDL: Ceased, however may come back now with even larger base with combined airline.
DTW: 3x A333's 1x KL 772 during winter, add another NW flight summer, those buses go out completely full and the cargo is big, the A333 can carry more cargo.
MSP: 1x 764, 2x A333, again, full and often well oversold
MEM: 1x 763 Agreed
BOS: 1x A333, 1x 752, that A333 goes out full all the time, to reduce that much capacity especially in a big Delta city would just be silly.
EWR: 2x 752's
BOM: probably cancelled, and non-stop moved to DTW with large middle eastern, indian presense.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 17):
Don't you mean that the NW flight to/from DTW is now a 744?

I'm thinking that is what he meant.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

I'd like to see more NorthAm flying to AMS after the merger. CDG is already pretty well loaded up with traffic, and is far from a pleasant place to change planes. AMS, on the other hand is, I would say, top 3 airports to transfer (along with MUC and CPH) in europe. I think we'll see what LH has done, specializing its hubs around various regions and connectivity.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

What other major markets in the US need to be served nonstop to AMS? I can think of perhaps LAS, PHX or DEN, but the NW/KL JV have N. America pretty well covered. As for transit in CDG, it is improving at a rapid pace! With 2E reopened and S3 open as well, many flights no longer require busses. Soon, the "Air France By" terminal will open, I think it's called S4 further consolidating flights into terminal space and from bus gates.

User currently offlineCAP2008 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2839 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
BOM: probably cancelled, and non-stop moved to DTW with large middle eastern, indian presense.

I don't see this happening, It'd have to be flown with either a 772ER/LR or a 744(332 doesn't have the legs), and I just don't see that kind of demand out of DTW. Plus, DTW doesn't have that big of an Indian population, defiantly a bigger Arabic population. Enough so, for RJ to fly a 342 into DTW a few times a week from AMM. Alot of the AMS-BOM pax come form places other than DTW. I expect the service to remain out of AMS.



The mother of the last KC-135 pilot has yet to be born.
User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2810 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 20):
What other major markets in the US need to be served nonstop to AMS?

With the success of SLC-CDG, I would not be surprised by the addition of SLC-AMS.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2808 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 20):
DEN,

This has been a possibility for several years.

Quoting CAP2008 (Reply 21):
I don't see this happening, It'd have to be flown with either a 772ER/LR or a 744(332 doesn't have the legs),

I should have said non-stop with a 772.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1764 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2777 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 16):
BOM: 1x 330 (cancelled for another nonstop from USA ex-JFK or DTW)



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
BOM: probably cancelled, and non-stop moved to DTW with large middle eastern, indian presense.

I think this route is likely to remain. My understanding is that NW flies AMS-BOM today in large part because KL has limited Netherlands-India frequencies. If NW/DL were to pull this route in favor of something direct from the USA, that would leave SkyTeam in a position of either entirely abandoning AMS-BOM or KL having to reduce frequency on other India routes to add BOM itself. In the grand scheme of the ATI and JV, I can't see NW/DL/AF/KL wanting to pull NW off that route as it is a moneymaker for both NW and the KL AMS hub.


25 Joost : I don't expect these kind of changes too, for the reason of operational complexity. Of course, ceterus paribus 2x330+764 might fit better than 3x330,
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : Anyway see Delta posturing in CDG much like what NW has done in AMS?
27 BinMonster : CVG Flys 767 To CDG FRA LGW FCO: However no 767 pilot base at CVG.
28 Bobnwa : What is posturing in regard to an airline in a particular city? Didn't realize that NWA was "posturing" in AMS.
29 DeltaL1011man : I agree with you mostly but I don't think MSP or DTW will get a 764 base when JFK doesn't even have one. With the 7 converts coming in 09 i think we
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