Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CO Star Alliance Network Changes  
User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13271 times:

Hi everyone-
Now that Continental is joining the Star Alliance, I was wondering how our very "Sky-Centric" network will change. I can guarantee that you won't see 4 daily flights to AMS during the summer anymore (2x EWR and 2x IAH) or 5 daily flights to CDG (3x EWR 1x IAH and 1x CLE)

Maybe we'll finally see some IAH-FRA service, and perhaps 2x daily EWR-FRA service to connect with LH? Maybe an increase in ZRH service, or better yet we'll get MUC back! What about year round EWR-YVR service to connect with AC? With MS and TK being new Star entrants, I'd LOVE to see some EWR-CAI and or EWR-IST service.

Feel free to speculate, and of course if any of you have heard anything yet, let us know!

Happy Flying,
Nick

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13217 times:

I can see some level of service to AMS being maintained to provide access to such a large trading center for CO flyers in EWR and IAH, and access to the EWR/IAH hubs from AMS, same with CDG service. CLE is the big loser in all this, as I can't see CLE supporting those destinations without some connection capability in AMS/CDG.

EWR/IAH service to Germany is almost a guarantee I would imagine, again CLE could be out on a limb here unless a 1X Daily CLE-FRA could work with the LH connections.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13201 times:

I don't think you will see much change with EWR-CDG, it's an important route and with no more DL operating NYC-Paris I think it only helps CO. I also don't see any change with EWR-AMS, IAH-AMS might go single daily from double daily.

EWR-FRA Xs daily
EWR-MUC
EWR-DUS?..

IAH-FRA
IAH-MUC



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13087 times:



Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 1):
I can see some level of service to AMS being maintained to provide access to such a large trading center for CO flyers in EWR and IAH, and access to the EWR/IAH hubs from AMS, same with CDG service. CLE is the big loser in all this, as I can't see CLE supporting those destinations without some connection capability in AMS/CDG.

I absolutely agree - I'm sure we'll see both AMS and CDG maintained, but at what levels. I also certainly don't see the CLE-CDG run being maintained. I can see maybe 2x EWR-CDG and 1x IAH-CDG, but that's it. As for AMS, I think we'll see 1-2x EWR-AMS, and that's it. I wouldn't be surprised to see IAH-AMS get axed in favor of service to a Star Hub.

Nick


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13090 times:

I think we'll see star carriers move even moreso from JFK to EWR. We'll see TK move IST-JFK to IST-EWR, likewise Egyptair moving CAI-JFK to CAI-EWR. We'll see more connectivity into LH/SWISS europe network, and maybe even ICN connection on Asiana from JFK go to EWR.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13039 times:

Do you see the possibility of Cleveland service to LGW being switched to FRA?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13019 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
I think we'll see star carriers move even moreso from JFK to EWR. We'll see TK move IST-JFK to IST-EWR, likewise Egyptair moving CAI-JFK to CAI-EWR. We'll see more connectivity into LH/SWISS europe network, and maybe even ICN connection on Asiana from JFK go to EWR.

Can you imagine seeing OZ, TK and MS all at EWR?! Terminal B will become quite an interesting place for spotters! (Although where they'll find the check-in counter space, I don't know - BA has already moved downstairs.)

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
Do you see the possibility of Cleveland service to LGW being switched to FRA?

The LGW service out of CLE pretty much sustains itself during the summer, without the help of SkyTeam. However, I definitely think that CLE-CDG could be axed in favor of CLE-FRA, if the 757s can handle it...

Nick


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5824 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12723 times:



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 6):
in favor of CLE-FRA, if the 757s can handle it...

They can't, can they? For some reason, I think that's too far....


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12702 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 6):
CLE-FRA, if the 757s can handle it...

If the 752 cannot handle it with a full pax/cargo load then the aircraft assigned on that route will the the 764ER or 762ER if the load factors are too low on the 764ER for that routing to be profitable.

I also think that UA will completely pull out of JFK and make EWR a mini hub, in other words a focus city like LAX is for UA and AA. I believe that out of EWR, UA flies to LHR, IAD (United Express), MIA, ORD, DEN, LAX and SFO. Maybe United will add a second daily EWR-LHR and a nonstop service EWR-NRT.

JFK will be dominated by AA, DL and B6 needless to say.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12595 times:



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 6):
The LGW service out of CLE pretty much sustains itself during the summer, without the help of SkyTeam. However, I definitely think that CLE-CDG could be axed in favor of CLE-FRA, if the 757s can handle it...

I've always though Paris to be a guaranted route from the US. It's Paris! I've always seen it for the US like NYC for Europe or MIA for Lat-Am: a must.
Ok, CO will lose the feed from AF but it's not like landing in the middle of nowhere. If CDG-CLE doesn't fill the cabin on its own, there's CO itself at CLE and several European/shorthaul carriers at CDG-T1 "under one roof" with some destinations available: FRA, HAM, MUC, DUS, TXL ,CGN, STR, ZRH, CPH, OSL, IST, WAW, ARN, OPO, LIS.... Definitely more connections than LGW, and it's a 757-200, not a big plane to fill.
I see more O/D and more O/D load factor with a 757-200 doing CLE-CDG. FRA would need a larger (with longer range = more expensive) plane and I don't see so many O/D passengers. LH would be flying it.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12569 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
I also think that UA will completely pull out of JFK and make EWR a mini hub, in other words a focus city like LAX is for UA and AA.

Disagree. UA keeps JFK open purely because of their extremely profitable SFO/LAX-JFK service. EWR does not command the yields that JFK does when it comes to the SFO/LAX market.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12527 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
I also think that UA will completely pull out of JFK and make EWR a mini hub, in other words a focus city like LAX is for UA and AA.

I don't believe UA would pull out of JFK, especially for the trans-cons. UA makes $$$ on the LAX/SFO-JFK runs. I could envision UA adding service to EWR from its hubs, however.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10):
Disagree. UA keeps JFK open purely because of their extremely profitable SFO/LAX-JFK service. EWR does not command the yields that JFK does when it comes to the SFO/LAX market.

Agreed. UA would not cede the LAX/SFO-JFK market to AA. No way.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12413 times:



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Thread starter):
Feel free to speculate, and of course if any of you have heard anything yet, let us know!

I would expect the following flights to be added by CO itself, particularly as the 787s start rolling in. Some connect to other Star hubs, others complement United's expansion, and some make sense in a multi-carrier ATI sales context:

EWR-HEL (seasonal)
EWR-VIE
EWR-CAI
EWR/IAH-BLR
EWR/IAH-ICN
EWR/IAH-MUC
EWR-STR
EWR-WAW (seasonal)
EWR-AUH/DOH
EWR-DME
IAH-PEK/PVG
CLE-FRA (seasonal)


I'd expect the immunized Star partners to perform the balance of any additional expansion into EWR/IAH beyond the city pairs I mentioned.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3938 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12383 times:

For crying out loud people... DL and AF have a NEW joint venture across the Atlantic. It doesn't matter what airline operates the flight, the airlines split the revenue. By DL/AF realigning the JFK-CDG operation, it will have no bearing on the CO EWR-CDG service. There is no loss from the AF/DL side... if anything JFK-CDG has a better and consistent product. Remember, this JV is mirroring the incredibly successful NW/KL JV, no matter what the tail color is, they operate as ONE airline to and from Europe.

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12205 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
believe that out of EWR, UA flies to LHR, IAD (United Express), MIA, ORD, DEN, LAX and SFO. Maybe United will add a second daily EWR-LHR and a nonstop service EWR-NRT.

United sold the traffic right for JFK to Lodon to Delta two years ago. Delta first flew to LGW then to LHR last March with Open Skies.


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2094 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12164 times:



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Thread starter):
Now that Continental is joining the Star Alliance, I was wondering how our very "Sky-Centric" network will change.

Good luck with that. CO wasn't very "Team" oriented as it were and not easy to work with. Unless they change their strategy significantly from the top and humble themselves, then we'll probably see more of the same "Co-Centric" network decisions going forward.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12155 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
EWR/IAH-MUC

You may see LH on these routes before CO, it won't matter who flies the routes in any case as UA/LH/CO/AC are going to be operating all transatlantic flights under a joint venture agreement.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12140 times:

If they are going to do a CLE/FRA flight it would have to be with CO metal. I don't think LH would put a plane on that route when they have 1 daily year round flight and 1 summer flight daily out of DTW. I could be wrong. But, I don't see LH doing that. AS far as the CLE/LGW flight. I thought that was doing great. And if so why would they drop that flight?

chuck


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12116 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 16):
You may see LH o

LH already operates;

EWR-

FRA 2Xs daily, DUS daily, MUC daily



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 900 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

I would imagine EWR-MUC is pretty much a guarantee once CO is in Star.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11999 times:



Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 15):
Unless they change their strategy significantly from the top and humble themselves, then we'll probably see more of the same "Co-Centric" network decisions going forward.

You have already seen a rather large shift in COs strategy, by joining not only Star but the transatlantic joint venture of UA/LH (not to mention adding AC into that mix) tells me that CO is going to be a core part of the alliance going forward and is no longer content being 3rd chair in any alliance. As for adding flights that are "Co-Centric" what do you expect them to do? not add flights at EWR as that might affect DL up the road at JFK?

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 17):
AS far as the CLE/LGW flight. I thought that was doing great. And if so why would they drop that flight?

I don't see them dropping CLE-LGW unless they shift it to LHR as/if CO builds a relationship with BD. I do think CLE-FRA is a shoe in to be added at some point, CLE-CDG is going to have to stand on its own however, I think that is the flight at the highest risk of being canceled right now.

Short Term CO/LH adds...
IAH-FRA
CLE-FRA
EWR-MUC

Almost immediately cut...
EWR-AMS becomes double daily 752s (767 flights goes away)
EWR-CDG looses the 3rd daily flight
IAH-AMS stays as a single daily 767 (no more second flight during the summer)
IAH-CDG downgraded to a 767 from a 777

Medium/Long terms adds...
IAH-ZRH (if Swiss joins the Atlantic JV)
IAH-AKL (long shot if NZ joins the UA/CO Pacific JV)
IAH/EWR-GUM



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11973 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
LH already operates;

EWR-

FRA 2Xs daily, DUS daily, MUC daily

Oops didn't realise that, well then you may not see much added out of EWR at least to Germany.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11947 times:

Count on IAH-FRA and EWR-MUC. IAH-AMS will probably stay but definitely at reduced frequency. IAH-CDG is fine as well, as are at least two of the EWR-CDG flights during the peak season.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
I believe that out of EWR, UA flies to LHR, IAD (United Express), MIA, ORD, DEN, LAX and SFO. Maybe United will add a second daily EWR-LHR and a nonstop service EWR-NRT.

UA's presence at EWR is token at best. They are strong in the Chicago market but really don't have much to offer elsewhere, especially compared to the late 1990s when EWR was a large UA station.

A few years back, they offered the best schedule to LAX/SFO, and even flew to SAN (and maybe SEA) from EWR. International service was NRT up until the mid-1990s, then LHR until just a few years ago. Both routes saw the 747 and EWR-LHR was an early 777 route. Now United is essentially a shell of themselves at Newark.

Furthermore, I'd put the odds of a United return to EWR-LHR/NRT right between slim and none, and my Uncle Slim has been dead for years now...

Today's UA/X operations at EWR:

LAX: 1x (A319)
SFO: 2x (A319/320)
ORD: 8x (733/735/757/A320)
DEN: 3x (757/A320)
IAD: 4x (UAX CRJ)

Contrast this to an old 1997 timetable I have:

BOS: 9x (737/UAX J31/J41)
ORD: 14x (727/737/757/DC10/A320)
DEN: 6x (727/737/757/A320)
LHR: 1x (777)
LAX: 5x (757/A320)
MIA: 1x (727)
SAN: 1x (A320)
SFO: 6x (757/767)
IAD: 15x (UAX J31/J41)

Quite a difference: 58 daily flights in 1997 to just 18 in 2008.

Just for kicks, here is the same data for JFK

2008:

IAD: 6x (UAX)
LAX: 7x (p.s. 757)
SFO: 7x (p.s. 757)

1997:

BOS: 9x (737/757/UAX J31/J41)
BWI: 4x (UAX J41)
EZE: 1x (777)
CCS: 1x (757)
LHR: 2x (763)
LAX: 7x (762/763)
PIT: 4x (UAX J41)
ROC: 2x (UAX J31)
SFO: 7x (762/763)
SJU: 1x (757)
GRU: 1x (763)
SEA: 1x (757)
NRT: 2x (744)
IAD: 11x (UAX J31/J41)

While not all flights ran daily, you're looking at roughly 50 daily departures in 1997 (with as many as 20 widebody flights) versus 20 flights today, with zero widebodies.

United used to be great for me out of EWR, as my travel was EWR-LAX/LHR/ORD. I was a fairly loyal UA flyer until about 1998, when it was over to Continental for the vast majority of my business. I just don't see how UA could ever come back to EWR without stepping on its future alliance partner's toes, especially to prime markets like NRT and LHR.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11899 times:



Quoting CODC10 (Reply 22):
I just don't see how UA could ever come back to EWR without stepping on its future alliance partner's toes, especially to prime markets like NRT and LHR.

Totally agreed you are not going to see UA add much at EWR going forward, just as CO is probably not going to step on UAs toes by rebuilding the hubs/focus cities at IAD/LAX that they once had.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

I wouldn't rule out United restarting EWR-NRT. United can offer superior cargo lift if it uses the 744, and also offers International First Class.


Live life to the fullest.
25 777gk : Realistically... not a whole lot more. For it's overall volume, the 747 is not a terribly efficient cargo hauler due to the irregular shape of its fu
26 DL Widget Head : My point exactly. DL chose to give up one of their marquee routes JFK-CDG and let AF fly it. I doubt CO would do this even with ATI. Their too "CO-Ce
27 777gk : Are you kidding me? So CO should take a route it makes significant money on, with no local competition, and just hand it over for the sake of the 'te
28 DL Widget Head : Yes, A route like EWR-MUC could easily be only flown by LH under a JV but CO's strategy of "meisim" in the past would not allow for this. ATI will al
29 United1 : Well at this point it really makes no difference if CO just has to fly the route or not A++ is designed to be "metal-nutral" it makes no difference i
30 COflyerBOS : With companies like Royal Dutch Shell and Schlumberger around, CO wont be dropping IAH to AMS or CDG service. There is no way they'd give up those rou
31 HMan : Hopefully LH will not make CO pull out of every market in Germany besides FRA & MUC!
32 Letsgetwet : Yes, A route like EWR-MUC could easily be only flown by LH under a JV but CO's strategy of "meisim" in the past would not allow for this. ATI will all
33 Avek00 : CO has recognized that the industry environment has changed, and made the smartest choice in evolving away from its hitherto successful "go it alone"
34 777gk : The bulk of the last six posts on this thread have been totally absurd. I highly doubt the joint venture will split revenues completely and evenly. Th
35 Yellowtail : Not likely..CO has a lot of Corporate OIl contracts for folks headed to the north sea...for example...my brother's company policy specifies travel on
36 Adicool : I also have a question regarding the JV between AC LH UA and CO. Will LX be included into this JV as it is wholly owned by LH and what about BD once t
37 United1 : Well in general with a JV you split revenue/profit based upon ASMs/RPMs flown or some other metric that is agreed upon ahead of time, but every penny
38 Avek00 : Immunized joint ventures that involve revenue sharing, such as the NW/KLM North Atlantic Joint Venture, certainly DO pool all of their revenues from
39 A342 : As already mentioned above, LH already flies MUC-EWR. If the Joint Venture is formed, there is no need for CO to fly the route. If more capacity is ne
40 Avek00 : It depends on a variety of factors that do not make utilization a black-or-white decision. For example, if the carriers want to adjust capacity on th
41 FlyDreamliner : We won't see intercontinental routes from EWR on UA. They'll be CO, and they'll link into UA's asia network from HKG and NRT. We'll see UA probably dr
42 Lambert747 : Agreed. There is no need to duplicate EWR-MUC on both airlines. Without a doubt there will be a new service flown from IAH-MUC, in addition I would n
43 United1 : UA operated 772s on the route for several years so there is no question that they can operate the flight. My thought on proposing the route was CO de
44 Lambert747 : United Airlines decision to leave LAX-AKL was due to poor performance on the route. United Airlines ran the 747-200 LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD, then the 747-400
45 United1 : UA dropped the route becasue its cost in AKL were too high, IIRC UA had something like 200 employees just for one daily flight.
46 A342 : The slot situation in MUC is rather tight, so I believe a larger aircraft is the way forward, and currently, only LH can provide this.
47 Behramjee : This is my personal opinion as to what CO should do trans-atlantic wise due to their Star Alliance membership: 1. new IAH-FRA flights should be launch
48 Bobnwa : Delta will have the DTW-CDG market as soon as the DL/NW merger is consummated.
49 Lambert747 : If United Airlines had a product that obtained the yield necessary, we would not be having this discussion now. I have heard the United Airlines empl
50 HAJFlyer : I expect ZRH as "minor" Star hub to profit: ZRH - EWR has already gone from 762 to 764. As the AA ZRH - DFW flight was doing very well until LX cancel
51 ZRH : No doubt, as LH integrates the LX network into theirs. This does not mean to give up LX flights on the contrary to offer more options in their networ
52 Avek00 : FWIW, I see CO making its entire EWR-Germany operation 752s, with LH hauling the lion's share of any cargo. I also expect CO to re-enter EWR-DUS.
53 Avek00 : I agree for the most part, but I would not be entirely surprised to see 1 or 2 UA longhauls from EWR If the carriers deem either the extra capacity o
54 Post contains links United1 : Actually we could very well be, when UA pulled out of AKL they announced that in the 16 years of operating the route they had lost money for most of
55 DLBOIFIN : I strongly disagree with that statement. The HEL-USA market has been growing rapidly, AY is having loadfactors around 92% and they have announced tha
56 Avek00 : I agree, and with SK able to offer a more formidable sales presence, I see it as a route CO might be willing to take on.
57 AznMadSci : How about CO tap into VIE and OS and utilize their Eastern Europe, Middle East, and some Central Asia routes? I would like to see IAH-ZRH on either CO
58 Avek00 : SQ and TG will likely be part of any TPAC Immunized JV, but NH is out until Japan goes Open Skies.
59 CALMSP : why??? Why would we want to drop 10 Business First customers?? Why would we want to drop the cargo uplift??? why??? why would we want to drop 10 Busi
60 United1 : Actually TG and SQ are not part of the ATI portion of Star, NH and NZ are the two Asia Pacific based carries who have ATI agreements with UA. Well it
61 Avek00 : Sure it does. DUS is an increasingly large focus city for Lufthansa, which over time will likely develop into a full-fledged hub. Lufthansa recently
62 AznMadSci : Will CA, NZ, OZ also be part of the TPAC mix?
63 Tommy767 : UA's cutting of frequency EWR-SFO/LAX was a bit pre-mature IMHO. Over the past decade, UA was definately threatened by CO's presence, inevitably lead
64 Lambert747 : You have posted the connections from HEL are in the area of 75%. So please rationalize why a route that is only 25% O&D would work. Most people have
65 CALMSP : is this supposed to be a joke???
66 Lambert747 : EWR-AMS is a mileage burn, IAH-AMS is another story..
67 Behramjee : correct me if Im wrong but isnt the main reason why CO has so many J class pax on IAH-CDG and IAH-AMS flights is largelt due to onward connectivity o
68 Avek00 : No. Those are HEAVY O&D routes for CO, and will invariably remain.
69 VC10er : CO used to have an EWR to GIG on a DC-10 many years ago. Would they consider that as only Tam is going to be the only airline out of the NYC area to G
70 Oby : I don't think a lot will happen. They will only shut down a couple of their routes to none SA hubs and then shiften flights to those hubs. Also they m
71 CODC10 : IAH-CDG/AMS have strong onward traffic with AF/KL to the Middle East and Africa, but both markets generate sufficient O&D traffic to sustain nonstop
72 Lambert747 : With the rationalization of no longer having connecting traffic at CDG and AMS both routes will in most cases be downgraded to 767-200 or multiple 75
73 Humberside : LH has a few European routes at HAM, but their Tegel presence is a lot smaller and therefore has limited potential for onward connections. CGN, Stutt
74 DLBOIFIN : I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. Finland-USA market is 100%, only 25% of that market is traveling non-stop, mostly due to AY is reluctant
75 STT757 : The 767-200 fleet is the smallest of CO's widebodies, there are only ten. The 777-200ER makes up the majority of CO's widebody fleet with 20 777-200E
76 2travel2know : EZE will most likely be dropped. However, UA might want to keep daily IAD-GRU and ORD-GRU, changing equipment depending on the season. With UA and CO
77 Enilria : I think as a result, CO is going to move the CLE hub to CAK!!! Seriously, though I do agree CLE is at risk of losing int'l flights, CLE gains domesti
78 SandroZRH : Clearly, you have never been to finland, or you did something completely wrong there.
79 LAXdude1023 : There is a ton of O&D premuim traffic between IAH and CDG/AMS, why downgrade it?
80 COalways : I think CO is really going to surprise the public with alot of there new coming routes with the arrivals of there 787 & 777. I think were going to see
81 Avek00 : I agree insofar as I expect CO to attempt to "complement" some of United's recent international expansion, avoiding duplication in new flying to the
82 Panamair : And yet, AF is stepping in with a 2-cabin A343/A332 service. You give the 3-cabin concept too much credit...even AF has been operating 2-cabin flight
83 CODC10 : True, but the New York market is better served with a nonstop service, and seeing as there is no Star presence from New York to any of the markets yo
84 Ota1 : Actually DUS-EWR has been running for quite some time. It's not a new service it just had been operated by Private Air on behalf of LH with an all bu
85 Avek00 : Right, but joint ventures will fail if the participants do not closely coordinate their efforts to avoid unccessary competition and duplication betwe
86 Exaauadl : I see the myth persists that JFK-LAX/SFO are extrememly profitable. Of course it may all be relative
87 Panamair : Why? True, though the BBJ flight was for a very narrowly-targeted O&D segment...the 'mass market' had no nonstop access from DUS on LH long-hauls for
88 Ota1 : I agree, however with CO joining *A chances are quite good that this service will actually stay. I don't think it's a coincidence that LH started DUS
89 CALMSP : "*IF* IAH-AMS were to go to a single daily flight, it would most likely get upgraded to a 777-200ER. well, the IAH 764 is routed IAH-AMS-EWR.........s
90 Avek00 : In a nutshell, SQ is facing several intrinsic and extrinsic changes now and on the horizon with respect to the USA market that increase the attractiv
91 Airzim : But you're ignoring the fact that Finnair has never made money on their JFK flights.
92 STT757 : EWR-DXB yes, KWI would be from IAH (imo). I don't think you will have to wait that long, CO will probably use one of their 8 777-200ERs they have on
93 OA412 : A bit of trivia. I remember reading some time ago that IAH was AF's only unprofitable US station. However, the flight was kept simply becuase of the
94 AznMadSci : If that was the case, why did they have 13 weekly flights up to now? Also isn't the main IAH flight one of the few US desintations with strong premiu
95 DLBOIFIN : And this is based on...? What? At present AY simply cannot afford to have any flights that won't be profitable. See what happened with CAN flights. U
96 VC10er : to COalways. alot is 2 words; a lot. i often made that mistake mself until someone recently corrected me.
97 Goldorak : I think you're wrong and that IAH is one of the most profitable station. The weakest US station for AF used to be ORD. I don't know if it's still the
98 United1 : From what I understood AF makes a killing on the IAH-CDG-"oil rich countries" routes in Africa/Middle east, I think you might be right about ORD arn'
99 Airzim : I can't prove it except anecdotally. I've been told by folks in the head office that JFK is kept simply as a prestige flight and to maintain connecti
100 Jfk777 : How can IAH be AF's only loosing USA station but make a profit to "oil destinations" ? If it makes a profit to AF on the connection then its a profit
101 OA412 : The information is from a little while ago (maybe 3-4 years ago). At that time, IAH was reportedly unprofitable. However, I seem to recall that IAH h
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gaping Hole In Star Alliance Network! posted Sun Mar 12 2006 18:51:09 by Poh2
When Will CO Officially Join Star Alliance? posted Sat Jul 26 2008 18:13:17 by John
Effect On Copa And PTY?- CO To Star Alliance posted Fri Jun 20 2008 02:36:29 by Bentley55
CO Announces Intent To Join Star Alliance posted Thu Jun 19 2008 11:18:11 by SalMonela
New Star Alliance Hub Pics ( CAI Terminal 3 ) posted Sun Aug 3 2008 08:18:06 by MSYYZ
EgyptAir, Star Alliance And Cairo Hub Questions posted Mon Jul 28 2008 09:34:12 by Adools
Star Alliance Becoming Too Much? posted Sat Jul 26 2008 22:41:47 by 1821
Star Alliance Antitrust posted Wed Jul 23 2008 12:50:07 by ERJ170
CO Q1 2008 Network And Hub Performance posted Sun Jul 20 2008 18:45:54 by MOBflyer
First EgyptAir 777 In Star Alliance C/S posted Tue Jul 8 2008 11:13:50 by Flynavy
CO Announces Intent To Join Star Alliance posted Thu Jun 19 2008 11:18:11 by SalMonela
Star Alliance Becoming Too Much? posted Sat Jul 26 2008 22:41:47 by 1821
New Star Alliance Hub Pics ( CAI Terminal 3 ) posted Sun Aug 3 2008 08:18:06 by MSYYZ
Star Alliance Antitrust posted Wed Jul 23 2008 12:50:07 by ERJ170
EgyptAir, Star Alliance And Cairo Hub Questions posted Mon Jul 28 2008 09:34:12 by Adools
Star Alliance Becoming Too Much? posted Sat Jul 26 2008 22:41:47 by 1821
Star Alliance Antitrust posted Wed Jul 23 2008 12:50:07 by ERJ170
CO Q1 2008 Network And Hub Performance posted Sun Jul 20 2008 18:45:54 by MOBflyer
CO Q1 2008 Network And Hub Performance posted Sun Jul 20 2008 18:45:54 by MOBflyer
First EgyptAir 777 In Star Alliance C/S posted Tue Jul 8 2008 11:13:50 by Flynavy
First EgyptAir 777 In Star Alliance C/S posted Tue Jul 8 2008 11:13:50 by Flynavy
First EgyptAir 777 In Star Alliance C/S posted Tue Jul 8 2008 11:13:50 by Flynavy