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Frontier Expects $58 Million Loss In Quarter  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Frontier Airlines expects to report a $57.7 million net loss during the three-month period that ended in June, citing a 62 percent jump in average fuel costs.
The bankrupt carrier provided the estimate Monday in documents informing the Securities and Exchange Commission that it would miss the deadline for filing its official quarterly results.
The loss, which amounts to $1.56 per diluted common share, compares with a deficit of $3.5 million, or 10 cents a share, for the same period in 2007.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...s-577-million-second-quarter-loss/

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25335 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2642 times:
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Old news.

The figures have been released month by month. One only had to count.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2631 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):
The figures have been released month by month. One only had to count.

The article came out just minutes ago. They asked the SEC to delay release of their earnings. I'm not sure the monthly earnings releases are exactly the same. If they were the same then I wouldn't imagine they would have asked for more time to file them.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2594 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):

The figures have been released month by month. One only had to count.

Apparently they don't count very well...

These are the released figures up until now...
April -$16,460,000
May -$21,966,000
June -$8,835,000
Total
-$47,261,000

So they understated their quarterly loss by $11 million previously. I think that isn't "old news".


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25335 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2587 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
The article came out just minutes ago.

Actually, a couple of hours ago. I've been into town and back. I had a small bet with myself as to who would post it on a.net.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
I'm not sure the monthly earnings releases are exactly the same.

Pretty close. Things get adjusted, up or down.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
If they were the same then I wouldn't imagine they would have asked for more time to file them.

There's more to an SEC report than just the straight earnings.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2573 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):

Pretty close. Things get adjusted, up or down.

I think $11 million is a lot of money...


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2555 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
I had a small bet with myself as to who would post it on a.net.

I bet you won.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2551 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 6):
I bet you won.

LOL


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25335 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
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Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 6):
I bet you won.

You got that right.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5983 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2491 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
April -$16,460,000
May -$21,966,000
June -$8,835,000

The April figures that were filed in the BK operating reports were for just under 3 weeks out of the month, that being said 11 Million is alot to have lost in 9 days time.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2359 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
The April figures that were filed in the BK operating reports were for just under 3 weeks out of the month, that being said 11 Million is alot to have lost in 9 days time.

We agree. Others seem to think that isn't news worth posting!


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25335 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2322 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
Others seem to think that isn't news worth posting!

That would be me.

If you average out the numbers for the full month, which is what I did, then the full April loss becomes about $21 million (similar to the May loss, which makes sense) and the $11 million reduces to about $5 or $6 million.

In the absence of the SEC filing, it is pointless to speculate on the differential. I assume - note "assume" - that there may be some special charges in there, maybe related to the bk, but even if not, then I find it difficult to make a Federal case out of it.

mariner

[Edited 2008-08-11 19:55:55]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1736 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2194 times:
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I'm someone who just enjoys reading all of the posts on this site - Frontier being one in particular. But I am really tired of Enilria.

Your posts don't offer me any information I can't find on my own - and you're becoming annoying frankly. Your constant know-it-all, negative outlook is grating. A lot of people on this site can ascertain their own outlook on Frontier based on the same information available to all. Yet you continually take it to another level by being a blow hard pontificating over Frontier's demise. Clearly you don't have much else to do...

I'm all for informative posts telling me something I didn't know about a specific airline, aircraft, airport or the industry in general. I especially appreciate the posts of insiders who have access to fleets, marketing, etc...Enilria you clearly are not an insider, to Frontier or any other airline. You obviously have knowledge of the industry - but your constant harping on F9 is tired. Find something else to do.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2096 times:



Quoting N7371f (Reply 12):

Your posts don't offer me any information I can't find on my own

I think that's true of virtually every thread on airliners.net. The point here is to discuss the news, not create it. You are entitled to your opinion, however. These same topics have all been covered in the Rocky Mountain News and Denver Post which is either an indictment of their validity as fodder for discussion or evidence of a gigantic anti-F9 conspiracy!  Smile


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1906 times:



Quoting N7371f (Reply 12):
I'm someone who just enjoys reading all of the posts on this site - Frontier being one in particular. But I am really tired of Enilria.

Your posts don't offer me any information I can't find on my own - and you're becoming annoying frankly. Your constant know-it-all, negative outlook is grating. A lot of people on this site can ascertain their own outlook on Frontier based on the same information available to all. Yet you continually take it to another level by being a blow hard pontificating over Frontier's demise. Clearly you don't have much else to do...

good news or bad news he is entitled to post it..unless he lives in China. I am sure posting on a.net will not cause F9 to fail....high fuel, poor route structure, bad management, competition and the good ole american capitalist way are taking care of that.

We will miss F9 when the time comes....as we miss TWA, Eastern, Piedmont, Braniff et al.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25335 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1878 times:
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Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 14):
and the good ole american capitalist way are taking care of that.

What American capitalism?

If capitalism is about the survival of the fittest, then Chapter 11 immediately subverts that.

Without Chapter 11, United, Northwest and Delta would be gone and the entire US civil aviation industry would be very different and probably more viable.

 confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1829 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
If capitalism is about the survival of the fittest, then Chapter 11 immediately subverts that.

 checkmark Agreed 100%.

While Ch11 rules have been tightened up in recent years, they ultimately do nothing but distort competition and the market place as entities manage to hang out in them under the guise of 'restructuring" enjoying and being held to different standards their their solvent competitors

I would much more prefer the European method (unless if you are Alitalia or Olympic and get illegal state subsidy), that companies have a very brief period to right themselves before being handed over in receivership that either ends in sale of the company, or a liquidation.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7246 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1779 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
Without Chapter 11, United, Northwest and Delta would be gone and the entire US civil aviation industry would be very different and probably more viable.

There is something we can agree on. Chapter 11 is a giant corporate cheat...as if corporations need even more of a break than they already get through lobbyists, etc. If Chapter 11 didn't exist then F9 would be doing great and United would probably be gone. The proper Darwinian cycle of survival of the fittest would be working and F9 would get their point at the top of the cycle. Instead because F9 was a relatively lean competitor to pre-Ch11 United, they were rewarded with United cheating the process (Railway Labor Act, bondholders, etc.) and coming out with lower costs than F9 which set the stage for exactly what is going on now.

Here is where we will probably diverge, however. I feel Ch11 is totally biased toward survival of the largest because investors would rather bet on market share with Ch11 aided cost reductions than a little guy. Even if you exclude F9, the ratio of small fry liquidations to major liquidations is horribly askew. The last really big airline to liquidate is Braniff since technically Pan Am was sold. The system is completely broken IMHO.


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