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Japan To USA Flights Rerouted South Today  
User currently offlineJetboyTWA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 389 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

I flew HKG-NRT-DTW today on Northwest Airlines. From Tokyo to Detroit, I was on board NWA #26, which took almost 14 hours (!!!) to reach Detroit. Crew mentioned that there was volcanic ash over Alaska, which is why we had to avoid the great circle route today and fly much further south, adding about two hours to our flying time.

Is ash over Alaska typical (and is it really damaging to the engines)? I've read that AS had several cancellations. I've flown to/from Asia several times, and this is the first time I've ever experienced something like this.

Here was our very southern route, which I took a photo of while enjoying my World Business Class breakfast on decent into Detroit:

NRT-DTW


[Edited 2008-08-11 20:00:04]

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3019 times:
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Quoting JetboyTWA (Thread starter):
Is ash over Alaska typical (and is it really damaging to the engines)?

Simple answer to that is yes. There was a case back in the late 80's when a BA 747 entered a volcanic cloud over Indonesia and lost all four engines in cruise.They got them relit once clear of the ash. The AC also looked like it had been sand blasted.

So yes it is one thing to avoid up there.

mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

See http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4102878/

Your flight wasn't "diverted"---that's when it goes AAA-BBB, can't get into BBB due weather, and diverts to the alternate CCC. Your flight's dispatcher planned the route to deviate around the ash areas.

And, yes, ash can have adverse effects on engines, not to mention other aircraft systems. In the link at the top, there are a couple of other links to wiki entries on the two 747s that had ash encounters back in the 1980s....


User currently offlineJetboyTWA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 389 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Sorry... I didn't mean "diverted". Jetlag from today isn't letting me think/type very clearly.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

No prob. Check out the wiki links...

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

As long as Okmok keeps on spewing ash...you're going to see a litany of transpac flights running further south than anticipated.

User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2851 times:

NW 20 from NRT to MSP also was about 2 hours late today. It left on-time and spent almost 13 hours in the air.


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2642 times:

Reports are that a volcano up in the area of Alaska erupted today, which would have forced air traffic to divert to different routes to avoid ash....this would all be predicated on the wind, so my guess is this is why all Japan-USA flights were forced south...


baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2601 times:



Quoting JetboyTWA (Thread starter):
Crew mentioned that there was volcanic ash over Alaska, which is why we had to avoid the great circle route today and fly much further south, adding about two hours to our flying time.

First of all, on the RJAA-KDTW segment, you would never fly the great circle route due to the prevaling winds. In the North Pacific, eastbound there is a flexible track system that is utilised to take advantage of the prevaling winds. That's the normal routing eastbound flights take.

The daily message can be seen here www.notams.jcs.mil/dinsQueryWeb/advancedNotamMapAction.do

As to the 14 hours, that does seem a little strange since the KDTW-RJAA segment going into the wind is just over 12 hours.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

I did a similar routing flying ICN-LAX with OZ at the end of May this year. We took off and shot right over Japan, but never turned north. The flight was 10 hours long, 2hrs shorter than on the way to ICN, so I suspect winds here.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2529 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 9):
I did a similar routing flying ICN-LAX with OZ at the end of May this year. We took off and shot right over Japan, but never turned north. The flight was 10 hours long, 2hrs shorter than on the way to ICN, so I suspect winds here.

Same thing for me the last time I flew NRT-LAX. It was almost a straight line on the in-flight map.


User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1523 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

For the past couple of days, LAX's Asia schedule has been adversely impacted by reroutes due to volcanic ash. Just so happens the reroutes are far enough south whereby the winds aloft aren't particularly strong - therefore increasing the elapsed time of the trips.

Average delays - my carrier included - have averaged two (2) hours on the arrivals.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2375 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 1):
Simple answer to that is yes. There was a case back in the late 80's when a BA 747 entered a volcanic cloud over Indonesia and lost all four engines in cruise.They got them relit once clear of the ash. The AC also looked like it had been sand blasted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9


The other most notable incident was KLM flight 867 with a brand new B747-400, which lost all engines in a volcanic ash cloud over Alaska, only to get some of them re-started after gliding for some time for the landing in Anchorage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Flight_867


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