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AeroMéxico To London In 2010?  
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Hello everyone,

I am starting this thread by request of our friend Aeolus, who is a member of a.net

I do not believe this has been discussed in depth, hence a dedicated thread. According to sources within the company (apparently well-informed), AM is planning to add London, England, to its long-haul network in a year and a half or two years.

It is still uncertain whether it will be LHR or LGW, but at this point in time LGW seems a bit more likely. AM ideally would like to send 777s only to London (like MAD, PVG and NRT), so in part the launch of LON depends on whether AM can find add more frames to its fleet. If push comes to shove, AM might end up doing this route with a 767, but, again, that would not be AM's first choice.

The flights would be non-stop and, initially, would run 2 or 3x weekly, and depending on the market's response and AM's performance, AM would increase the frequency to 5 or even 7x weekly.

So, that's the info so far. Discuss boys and girls, and let us know what you think, what you have heard and how this would (i) fit with SkyTeam's co-location of T4 at LHR; (ii) be affected by MX's joining oneworld and its codeshare agreements with BA; and (iii) result for AM in general.

Oh, and please don't shoot the messenger!


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

It would be interesting if a member could enlighten us on the Mexico-UK bilateral and if DGAC authorizes who gets the route. If this is the case I can see them being awared to MX if they request them, seeing that they don't fly overseas routes and potential One World benefits. Another point would be if MX could get more 767s or even better, a couple of A330s to serve the route appropriately. I have no doubt that this route could work, whoever decides to fly it.

User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

If MX want to join oneworld competing with BA is the wrong way to go about it! The bilateral is very restrictive 4 in Summer and 3 winter is BAs limit.

User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6189 times:



Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 2):
If MX want to join oneworld competing with BA is the wrong way to go about it! The bilateral is very restrictive 4 in Summer and 3 winter is BAs limit.

I don't think MX would try to compete with BA as you propose. I see a 7x MEX-LHR codeshare in the future, should MX go for it. Now, AM would indeed try to compete should the the rumour turned out to be true.


User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

Well I would love to contribute to this interesting thread; unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea of the potential for more flights.

I just don't know anything about the volume of trade/tourism between the two countries.

Looking forward to reading others' comments ...

p.s. I would love to visit Mexico, I am trying to request the 6- day trip with my company!  Smile


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6042 times:



Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 4):
Well I would love to contribute to this interesting thread; unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea of the potential for more flights.

I think there is a good chance such a flight would work.

In previous years, AM was hampered in flying nonstop from Mexico to Europe by competition from connections through IAH, DFW, ATL, IAD, JFK, etc. AM was also hampered in flying nonstop to Asia by competition from connections through LAX and SFO. Connecting passengers who did not have visitors visas for the US were handled as Transit Without Visa (TWOV).

All of that has changed. TWOV was suspended in August, 2003. Currently, Mexican citizens connecting in the US must have a US Visitors Visa or green card. These visas can takes weeks to obtain (there is no guarantee on how long it will take) and cost US$100. All of this hassle in order to spend a couple hours each way at a connecting airport.

This change in US rules has been a goldmine for AM. It is doubtful that their current service to PVG and NRT would be viable if they still had to compete with connections through American airports. I think that the rules change is also the primary motivation for AM increasing service to Europe.


User currently offlinePecevanne From Mexico, joined Jun 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

MEXICANA has firm plans to start London Heathrow in January.
They have permissions and only a convenient SLOT is required. They are now working with ONE WORLD and with LONDON authorities to get the convenient one.
MR BORJA, MXA CEO is optimistic in this operation.
SPAIN is next, September is key month for bilateral agreement.


User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1386 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5840 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Thread starter):
The flights would be non-stop and, initially, would run 2 or 3x weekly, and depending on the market's response and AM's performance, AM would increase the frequency to 5 or even 7x weekly.

Bilateral agreement or not, it is hardly believable that London is that badly connected to MEX.



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5801 times:



Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 4):
I just don't know anything about the volume of trade/tourism between the two countries.

I do not have any statistics or anything, but I would suppose that there is a quite strong commercial exchange between the two countries. I understand Mexican companies export a lot of industrial products to the U.K. and there must also be significant financial ties, considering that London is Europe's premier financial centre. While it is true that Mexican companies choose to do business with New York banks and U.S.-based investors and customers more than with European or London-based ones, the ties exist... remember HSBC is one of the largest banks in Mexico, RBS has taken over ABN Amro's Mexican operations (they have substantial trustee and commercial credit operations in Mexico), and there are some strong links in the insurance and reinsurance industries (i.e., Willis, Royal & Sun Alliance, etcetera).

As for tourism, London is a mecca of tourism that attracts a lot of Mexicans, and lots of Mexican students choose to pursue exchange semesters or full graduate or postgraduate degrees in the U.K.'s many colleges, universities and institutes. Moreover, I have seen many British tourists in Mexico City and elsewhere in Mexico, so I too believe that AM can thrive in this market.

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 2):
The bilateral is very restrictive 4 in Summer and 3 winter is BAs limit.

If I am not mistaken, BA at some point did 5x weekly during the summer (three, four years ago, dunno). Was this done under an exemption? I also read somewhere (might be false) that the frequencies can increase if a Mexican carrier starts flights to the U.K.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineTootallsd From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5785 times:
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I was stunned by AM product and utilization last week when I flew TIJ to PVG. The plane was full -- a part of the Mexico Olympic Team was onboard as were a lot of Chinese physicians returning from the AIDS Conference that was held in Mexico City.

Service was excellent and it was much better connection even with the border crossing (I live in San Diego) than flying via LAX and ICN as I usually do.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5762 times:
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Aeromexico needs tripple the 777 its has with GRU, SCl, PVG, NRT as well as CDG and MAD. To maintan a daily flight to each plus London 11 or 12 planes will be needed. 787 would help too, 77W wuld be awsome too.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5727 times:



Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 7):
it is hardly believable that London is that badly connected to MEX

I could not agree more with you, my Bhutanese friend!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Aeromexico needs tripple the 777 its has with GRU, SCl, PVG, NRT as well as CDG and MAD. To maintan a daily flight to each plus London 11 or 12 planes will be needed. 787 would help too, 77W wuld be awsome too.

If I am not mistaken, AM mentioned at the time of ordering the 787s that NRT and PVG would cease to be 777 destinations to become 787 destinations... better yield management maybe?

As for SCL, I hear AM's loads are not as good as LA's, and this is with a mix of 762s and 763s five times a week... that being said, SCL should stay a 767 route for the time being and eventually become a 787 route, but not a 777 route! I agree, though, that MAD, GRU and CDG should be all-777 routes. In fact, BCN should also be a 777 route and FCO too, so that the MTY stop can be dropped. And if LON is added to the routemap, it has to be a 777 or AM will have no chance against BA and its fantastic four-class 747s!

Now the question is, when is AM going to get more 777s???



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineXAAPB From Mexico, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5717 times:



Quoting Pecevanne (Reply 6):

and the route will be MEX-YQX.LHR with the Airbus A320? or with what airplane? is MX planning to cut EZE in order to free a 763 for such route?
I don't think MX is going to cross the big pond anytime soon.
But no problem, keep on dreaming!



Jorge Meneses
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2696 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5710 times:



Quoting XAAPB (Reply 12):
and the route will be MEX-YQX.LHR with the Airbus A320? or with what airplane? is MX planning to cut EZE in order to free a 763 for such route?

I think they have 2 - 762s on order to be delivered late this year, ex-LOT I believe.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineXaapb From Mexico, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5330 times:



Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 13):

Never heard of that, hopefully that's true!
Thanks LatinPlane
Greetings



Jorge Meneses
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5287 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Thread starter):
It is still uncertain whether it will be LHR or LGW, but at this point in time LGW seems a bit more likely. AM ideally would like to send 777s only to London (like MAD, PVG and NRT), so in part the launch of LON depends on whether AM can find add more frames to its fleet. If push comes to shove, AM might end up doing this route with a 767, but, again, that would not be AM's first choice.

Hi Eddie, I agree AM should start London, LHR or Gatwick, doesn't really matter. My opinion, (PVG and NRT will remain 777 routes for obvious reasons), but MAD and CDG should be 777 routes and start London with the 767 to test the waters. I also think GRU should be an all 777 route until a Brazilian airline jumps on the route, then downgrade it to 767, unfortunately there are only so many 777s to go around.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Eddie, thanks for the very interesting thread. In my opinion AM has all the potential to operate LHR nonstop. I also think it must be LHR and not LGW. AM can get the slots if it invest some cash in this operation.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 15):
I also think GRU should be an all 777 route until a Brazilian airline jumps on the route, then downgrade it to 767, unfortunately there are only so many 777s to go around.

GRU will remain AM territory for some time. The only airline which could face AM operations is TAM and MEX is not in the cards for 2008/2009. It is also high time for AM to open GIG B767 nonstop.

Mexico consulate in Sao Paulo is processing an average of 150 applications per month, while Rio consulate process a further 50 daily applications and Brasilia nother 50 daily applications. This makes 250 daily visa applications processed by Mexican consulates in Brazil or 1,250 visa per week issued.

Rgs,


User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

AM have apparently got plans for 3 x weekly 767 MEX-LGW from this winter. 767-200 aircraft, Tuesday, Thursday + Saturday flights from London.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5029 times:
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Eddie,
Thanks for the interesting and thought provoking thread.
I hope things materialize for AM to operate flights to Heathrow or Gatwick.
Looking at the fleet, is there a chance, AM could possibly get additional 762/763 or even 764s from Boeing as a result of the substantial delays within the 787 program? (I know this isn't the solution for the immediate term as they will need to lease or buy used a/c in the mean time.)


User currently offlineLatinAviation From Ireland, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4783 times:



Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 13):
I think they have 2 - 762s on order to be delivered late this year, ex-LOT I believe.

That's correct.


User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4527 times:



Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 13):
I think they have 2 - 762s on order to be delivered late this year, ex-LOT I believe.

Ex-LAN I think you mean?

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1766 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4269 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
If I am not mistaken, AM mentioned at the time of ordering the 787s that NRT and PVG would cease to be 777 destinations to become 787 destinations... better yield management maybe?

If that is so will the stopover in TIJ be kept?.....does the 787 have the legs for MEX-Asia nonstop?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineXAAPB From Mexico, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4244 times:



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 20):
Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 13):
I think they have 2 - 762s on order to be delivered late this year, ex-LOT I believe.

Ex-LAN I think you mean?

Atlanta

I don't think so, in that case those 767s will be going to AM like XA-MIR IIRC the registration.

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 17):

What is your source?
thank you

Greetings



Jorge Meneses
User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Malev is getting rid of its 767s as it exits longhaul flights, could this be a potential source?

User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4191 times:



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 17):
AM have apparently got plans for 3 x weekly 767 MEX-LGW from this winter. 767-200 aircraft, Tuesday, Thursday + Saturday flights from London.

You've got an official link of some sort, not doubting you, just want to read the full article


25 Ghost77 : Ok, lets clear things a bit... Mexicana is the one very close to seeing it landing first at LHR. By late Oct 08 they're getting 02 ex. B767-200ER ex L
26 Post contains links Fyano773 : I posted the same topic two years ago when AM signed a LoI about the Skyteam relocation to T4 @ Heathrow, but nothing happened so far; hopefully AM o
27 Hardiwv : I hope MX succeeds amending the bilateral with Brazil, but Brazilian authorities should only authorise MX to operate in another point in Brazil which
28 EddieDude : Sure! As I mentioned, credit should go to our fellow member Aeolus who sent me a couple of e-mails with this info. As for interim lift from Boeing, I
29 Fyano773 : Oh yes, don't get me wrong. What I was trying to highlight is the fact that these plans come from 2 years ago (even more) and It was a big coincidenc
30 EddieDude : Yes, in complete agreement with you Fernando I guess it is fair to assume that the plans for LON got shelved as a result of the sale of AM by the IPA
31 Ghost77 : Absolutely, those Malev birds, are CF6's. And the only free frame from the couple is the one that went to Varig and that has a fresh C check. It woul
32 LipeGIG : Interesting development. For sure it boosted a lot the market for MEX-Europe flights. Agree... it's incredible how MEX is so badly connected not only
33 EddieDude : European carriers and AM have to compete with the likes of AA, DL, UA, CO and AC in the Mexico-Europe market. I have seen lots of passengers in fligh
34 LipeGIG : Very true. There's no competition in Brazil thru other countries other than European ones. But US is a formidable competitor also, but the visa limit
35 JJ8080 : That happens mainly due to geographic localtion. While MEX-Europe demand end up split with MEX-USA-Europe's, Brazil-Europe demand and up added by EZE
36 Ghost77 : Hi Felipe!!! PR-VAE is now part of Blue Panorama., OTOH, PR-VAC is a good question of where it might head on now. It has a fresh C check and it's als
37 Edelag : Not to be the bad guy here, but MX and AM have said for many years now that they want to fly to the London area. Why believe them now?
38 AM744 : We have to admit that AM has added NRT,PVG,FCO and EZE in a relatively short span of time. London wouldn't surprise anybody. OTOH, I have less faith
39 MTYFREAK : And don't forget BCN. I agree with AM744 , Flying to Europe is a bigger step for MX than for AM.
40 Edelag : Good point. I believe LHR would. But then again at prices over 200 million per slot, things tend to get a little difficult.
41 EddieDude : Well, it could be LGW... after all, LHR is not a SkyTeam hub, so flying to LHR is not of the essence. On the other hand, if AM chooses to fly to LHR,
42 Fyano773 : Would be a good option, again. PR-BRW is configure with 30J/183Y, almost the same seat count of XA-MIR (30J/182Y), so AM can standardize the fleet, o
43 JJ8080 : What about 772s? Aren't they looking for some? I'm not sure about it's availability (thought about ex-Varig PP-VRC, stored and MZJ and PP-VRF, stored
44 Post contains links Fyano773 : Hi JJ8080, PP-VRE and PP-VRF (both ERs and PW powered) would have been possible options; actually, VRE has already been taken up by Transaero. Perhap
45 Latinplane : I was looking at AM's route network on Escala magazine (AM inflight magazine) for July and I must say it looks quite descent for a Latin American carr
46 Wolflair : There is no issue with Asia-MEX. The main problem is MEX-Asia with profitable payload. Given MEX altitude, there are lots of penalties for such a lon
47 LACA773 : Thanks so much for the information and for the credit due to Aeolus. I didn't know about the 764 having meger operations like that. I need to educate
48 JJ8080 : Hi Fyano, Interesting. Surely are in a better shape than RG's. JJ's M11s will leave as soon as the 77Ws arrive. Yesterday the first 77W arrived in Bra
49 VV701 : Here is some background data that may be of relevance and interest: In 2007 there were 499,836 passengers who traveled directly between airports in th
50 Ghost77 : Hey Laca773, fine thank you and you??? Well, true, but AM is looking right now for 02 additional B767-300ER's so probably that gap would be filled wi
51 Viscount724 : Do you have the link to the CAA website with that type of data? Thanks.
52 JJ8080 : Never understood why AM returned it's 757s, (IIRC, the last on early this year). This type is excellent for international short and medium-haul runs a
53 EddieDude : I agree with you that the 752 was exceptionally well suited for AM's needs, including the routes you mention (perhaps minus LIM and add LAX to the lis
54 Post contains links VV701 : Sure. Try http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...pagetype=88&sglid=3&fld=2007Annual Alternatively Google "caa" and then use their site's search facil
55 JJ8080 : Could be.. Than they should consider 739ER, wich even having shorter legs, fit almost all routes we are talking about.
56 Fyano773 : I agree, the issue is MEX-ASIA. The flight was with passengers nonstop and yes, payload, winds and passengers must be taken into account, but at leas
57 EddieDude : Interesting you mention this Thomaz. AM was often thought to be one of the launch customers of the 739ER and nothing. It certainly could benefit from
58 LACA773 : Hola Ghost. I'm doing pretty good though just had my birthday, lol . I hope they can find the 763ERs. Are there any good prospects right now? Slightl
59 JJ8080 : Didn't know about this. Sometimes airlines just do thinks we can't understand.... Do you think they can indead order some in the future? I was thinki
60 LACA773 : I was just thinking the same thing, JJ8080 ! Thanks for mentioning that.
61 EddieDude : At some point in the past, AM was the largest foreign carrier at LAX... nowadays it is either QF or MX, not sure. I would also like to see expanded A
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