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What The Hell Is Wrong With Qantas?  
User currently offlineDkramer7 From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13244 times:

Apart from the dramatic and attention grabbing title (I couldn't help myself, LOL!)

Qantas has had a shocker over the past few weeks.

Now it seems like the problems have been more than just a run of bad luck, so what gives?

Tell us all what you think

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4282 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13167 times:

QF's oneworld partner JAL has suffered from similar issues in recent years -- when management becomes preoccupied with the demands of a restructuring or merger, they tend to take their eyes off the ball of the day-to-day stuff, like maintenance.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12834 times:

I still can't understand why there were worries about the 744's safety after one incident.

I remember watching NBC or CBS where they had to bring in a aviation consultant to discuss the 744 and its history....

QF has the one of the best overall records in worldwide airline history....not one crash ever.

Hopefully all will be well when the A380s arrive....next year or 2010?

[Edited 2008-08-14 06:44:10]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12741 times:



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 2):
QF has the one of the best overall records in worldwide airline history....not one crash ever.

Since the jet era. They had a few accidents prior to switching to jets.


User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12646 times:

I think there's less wrong with Qantas and more media sensationalism. Not being that familiar with the press in Australia (aside from Mr. Murdoch, who is widely despised here in the U.S. for his FOX Network), it sounds as if they may be blowing things out of proportion much like the U.S. media does. Sounds a lot like what happened with the inspection issues at Southwest a couple months back. The media was all over that for a few weeks, then it went away. I suspect this will too.

User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12460 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 3):
Since the jet era. They had a few accidents prior to switching to jets.

Qantas has had incidents ("crashes") even in the jet era, just not any that have resulted in the loss of an aircraft. Most notably, a 744 overran a runway at BKK in 1999 after confusion between a pilot and co-pilot resulted in them not going around during a storm. As I recall, QF spent $100 million or more repairing that 744 so that they could continue to say that they've never lost a jet aircraft in a crash (although they had indeed crashed it).


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12255 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 3):
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 2):
QF has the one of the best overall records in worldwide airline history....not one crash ever.

Since the jet era. They had a few accidents prior to switching to jets.

This was one, L1049G VH-EAC that crashed on takeoff from MRU (first stop from JNB to SYD) on August 24, 1960 after an engine failure close to V1. No fatalities. About 20 injuries of 50 aboard. QF already had their first seven 707s in service at the time of this accident.

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/vheac23.jpg

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/vheac21.jpg

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/vheac22.jpg


User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11546 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):



Quoting Steex (Reply 5):

I guess the best way to say it is they've never had a jet crash resulting in a loss of life or aircraft.
Thanks for all the extra info.  Smile


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12163 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11489 times:
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Quoting Steex (Reply 5):
Most notably, a 744 overran a runway at BKK in 1999 after confusion between a pilot and co-pilot resulted in them not going around during a storm. As I recall, QF spent $100 million or more repairing that 744 so that they could continue to say that they've never lost a jet aircraft in a crash (although they had indeed crashed it).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © K S Down



Doesn't look like all that much damage



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 934 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11323 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 4):
Not being that familiar with the press in Australia (aside from Mr. Murdoch, who is widely despised here in the U.S. for his FOX Network), it sounds as if they may be blowing things out of proportion much like the U.S. media does.

I think part of the reason why the media blows all aviation news out of proportion is because flying is "scary" to most people and there are not a lot of people outside of the industry who know a lot about the inner workings of it.


P.S. Your Fox News Network comment was unnecessary and should be stated as your opinion.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 10750 times:



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Doesn't look like all that much damage

These photos give a better indication of the damage.
http://www.avweb.com/news/news/184281-1.html

Excerpt from the Australian TSB report:.

The main areas of damage to the aircraft were the lower forward fuselage, the nose and right wing landing gear and landing gear bays, and the engines. All damage was caused by impact forces. The principal impact occurred when the aircraft struck the ILS antenna and its foundations. This initiated the collapse of the nose landing gear (NLG) and the right wing landing gear(RWLG) and shredded most tyres. Further stress was placed on the landing gear as the aircraft decelerated and the wheels sank into the wet muddy soil.

The final impact occurred when the nose wheel contacted the edge of the sealed perimeter road. The NLG collapsed and was forced into the underside of the fuselage aft of the NLG bay, breaching the integrity of the fuselage and forcing the forward cargo bay floor upward by about 50 cm. The main equipment centre (MEC) and the electronic rack support were forced upward by about 30 cm and skewed, damaging some electronic components. The RWLG separated at the design shear points and folded rearwards, damaging the right inboard flap. Hydraulic lines to the nose and right wing landing gear were disrupted. This allowed the contents of hydraulic system numbers 1 and 4 to be discharged. All aircraft fuel tanks retained their integrity and there was no leakage of fuel.

Neither of the engines on the left wing (numbers 1 and 2) contacted the ground. However, both ingested mud and water, with the inboard engine (number 2) also receiving damage during the collision with the localiser antenna. The right side engines also ingested foreign matter. The right inboard engine (number 3) contacted the ground heavily after the RWLG collapsed. This caused the diagonal brace forward lug in the support pylon to fail and damaged the main engine gearbox. The number 4 engine also contacted the ground and ingested considerable mud and water. However, the support pylon retained its integrity.

A number of wing leading and trailing edge flaps, landing gear bays doors, antennas, and wing and body panels were damaged by pieces of the localiser antenna and its platform, and small rocks and mud that were thrown up during the accident sequence. None of this damage affected the structural integrity of the aircraft.

Numerous cabin internal fittings such as window reveals, passenger service units that house passenger oxygen masks, air vent outlets and reading lights, and ceiling panels were dislodged as the fuselage flexed and twisted during the overrun sequence.


Full report here (also includes some photos).
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...999/AAIR/pdf/aair199904538_001.pdf


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

This is all just because Qantas is current the airline thats in the news about this stuff. The media is paying attention to them.

Every airline has stuff happen every single day. My airline... a large regional in the US, declares on average, one emergency every day. Every single day.

99% of aircraft problems don't make it in the news. I've declared emergencies a few times, and a couple of those were pretty dramatic incidents, but I've never made it in the news. I doubt that Qantas' safety rate has changed or is really out of line with any other carrier with a similar operation. Soon enough the media will stop paying attention and you won't see these stories anymore, but that won't be because they've stopped, it will just be because the media has moved onto something else.


User currently offlineHigh_flyr69 From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 10668 times:

Lets get one thing straight, at the present time ABSOLOUTLEY NOTHING wrong with Qantas, they are merely the victims of the own popularity and reputation in the wake of one unfortunate accident.
The fact that Qantas are grounding Jets and cancelling flights further proves that there is nothing wrong in the flying kangaroo, that they are still safe because it would be assumed (although unknowingly) that many carriers out there turning lower profits and that dont boast the record Qantas does would have flown the aircraft anyway, hoping that nothing more comes of it.
In Summary all this is a media beat-up of the highest calibre, fueled by uninformed ignorant fools that are more interested in running a story for as long as possible instead of respecting their readers intelligence and stating the facts for what they are. Qantas despite the unfortunate incident in Manilla were, and still are the worlds Safest airline and that allthough offshore maintenance is performed, that maintenance is still strictly adherent to standards set by the CASA and is monitored accordingly.

Now can we please detract from this conversation that merely throws this whole online aviation community into the same group of ignorant clowns as the reporters and move on with something more worthy of our time.

Cheers
High_flyr69



Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find the shot gun
User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 10670 times:



Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 9):
I think part of the reason why the media blows all aviation news out of proportion is because flying is "scary" to most people and there are not a lot of people outside of the industry who know a lot about the inner workings of it.


P.S. Your Fox News Network comment was unnecessary and should be stated as your opinion.

Agreed on the issue of the flying public, those airline geeks amongst us probably don't think about it in the same light - and I thought I put in an "IMO" under the Fox Network part. My error, although I did not specifically state Fox NEWS.


User currently offlineUtapao From Thailand, joined Jul 2005, 645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8895 times:

Could someone please explain to me why reactions such as this...from supposed airline
"literate" people is any different from the media that we all blamblast with such fervor??

QF has had problems. Airlines AAA-ZZZ have had similar problems.

Why is it even a point of discussion here among pseudo airlines-intellectuals?



Sawasdee khrab!
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8785 times:

News about airlines in the mass media by and large sucks. It's far too easy to be dramatic and scare people with stuff about airlines. I don't really care for QF, myself, but I respect that they've only had one serious accident, the BKK thing in 1999, and as accidents go, it wasn't THAT terrible. They've had some issues lately, but that's hardly unique. Runs of bad luck hit everyone.... and not every airline can have Lufthansa Technik  Smile

(not to say QF mx isn't top notch)



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8739 times:



Quoting Utapao (Reply 14):
Why is it even a point of discussion here among pseudo airlines-intellectuals?

...it is because people who love to bash QF live among us.  Smile

Seriously, QF is not a perfect company, but they are by and large a better run company than many other legacy carriers I know of. They are consistently one of the best financially secured organisations and offer a rather decent product (note: might not be on par with competition, but decent nonetheless) and service levels have been ok for me. This is coming from someone who has been brought up on SQ's modus operandi!

So there is nothing wrong with QF. When SQ crashed their 747-400 in Taipei, the media too went out of their way to scrutinise every single incident that happened afterwards. Likewise, this is the heat QF is feeling now. And as far as the media is concerned, bad news = good news = more readers attention = more sales of print = more visibility of their logo = advertising revenue. Therefore it is no surprise that the press would "feed' on people's morbid curiosity for calamities and then feed them with every single morsel of it, even if it was just a QF jet bursting a tyre while taking off.

Ah... just let it ride over. This attention will be gone before you know it.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8432 times:



Quoting Dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Apart from the dramatic and attention grabbing title (I couldn't help myself, LOL!)

Qantas has had a shocker over the past few weeks.

Now it seems like the problems have been more than just a run of bad luck, so what gives?

Tell us all what you think

What is wrong with Qantas? NOTHING! Besides the hole in the fuselage incident, everything else is a common event for all carriers world wide. Seriously, hiccups happen everywhere. They could have a 24 hour news station just for minor issues like Qantas is having. When you add up all the airplanes flying right now, I can promise you that one is having a minor issue at this very moment somewhere in this big world. I think Qantas is just getting the poor media treatment, and in no time, it will be someone else.

Qantas is a fine airline. I said it before, and I will say it again. I will fly on them anytime, any day, and anywhere. I fully trust them, and fully respect them as a wonderfully run airline. I will be taking a trip across the pond soon, and I will be sure to fly Qantas when I do so. I also plan on catching me a kangaroo, and bringing it home!  Smile

Qantas deserves a break.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinePER744 From Australia, joined Mar 2003, 405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8411 times:

I particularly enjoyed the reporting on the 747 with the jackscrew issue. That it 'could have caused the tail to snap off' and 'it's the exact same screw that resulted in an Alaska Airlines jet crashing into the ocean 8 years ago'

I never realised the parts commonality between MD-80's and 747's  Wink


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8411 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 1):
QF's oneworld partner JAL has suffered from similar issues in recent years -- when management becomes preoccupied with the demands of a restructuring or merger, they tend to take their eyes off the ball of the day-to-day stuff, like maintenance.

What does management's preoccupation have to do with (implied/alleged) shoddy maintenance? I thought it's maintenance's job to do the maintenance?

 stirthepot 


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8131 times:



Quoting High_flyr69 (Reply 12):
nothing more comes of it.
In Summary all this is a media beat-up of the highest calibre, fueled by uninformed ignorant fools that are more interested in running a story for as long as possible instead of respecting their readers intelligence and stating the facts for what they are

Thank you. You know it seriously makes me question how often in other areas outside our knowledge base that we're fed similar BS by the media?
I'm hearing it daily at the moment. "I'm not flying Qantas anymore... they only care about profits and not saftey". Which has no grounding in truth, but it doesn't help that certain staff memembers are blowing up a stom with the 737s and the work MAS has done on the aircraft. MAS is perfectly fine and competent in these areas and this is more about politics.

The trouble is the media can't tell the difference, and just reports in General that Qantas is no longer safe. I've got a feeling we're going to be hearing stories about "OMG, Qantas lavs stopped working midpacific and threatened the lives of the passengers onboard".. sort of Kat up tree stories for a while yet.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8089 times:

www.smh.com.au/news/news/panel-falls...lane/2008/08/15/1218307183980.html

More today!

Seriously they're getting out of hand.


User currently offlineEvers From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 7886 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 21):
www.smh.com.au/news/news/panel-falls...lane/2008/08/15/1218307183980.html

More today!

Seriously they're getting out of hand.

I love how they work their way back through history so they can keep bringing up the hole.

the media here drives me nuts.  banghead 


User currently offlineJbernie From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

Qantas is in a difficult position, it is viewed as a national carrier, it is the largest airline in that region (south pacific), there are only two other airlines (or Airline groups)** that I can think of (Virgin, Air NZ) that are even close in size, so unlike Europe/USA there aren't as many large airlines to screw up and distract attention from something you do.

Compared to the number of flights in the USA/Europe 1 or 2 "issues" is a much higher percentage, someone like Southwest could have the same number of issues and in some cases it would barely register because of the number of aircraft/flights they have. Thought WN has had its issue this year with the MX records but as far as mainstream media is concerned it isn't worth mentioning until the next big issue.

Something else in play, the media are all pulling on each others stories, even more so in the internet age where you have sites like fark.com where a story that really is an absolute non event some how morphs to become some major story.

I am a big QF fan and am not worried about getting on one of their flights, but right now, all they really need is a few weeks without an issue so the media can get interested in some other issue, they are always looking for the next big story.

**excluded SQ as although they do have a number of flights into Aust/NZ within the region of Aust, NZ, PNQ, Fiji etc it is really Qantas Group, Virgin & Air NZ


User currently offlineMysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7768 times:

Nothing wrong with Qantas. Just because it's in the news often doesn't mean there is something wrong with it. I think it's doing a fine job, especially after the engineer strike. QF is actually trying to get all of its airplanes into scheduling maintenance so they continue to fly.

I remember during jetBlue's February "disaster," there was a thread or two of similar nature. JetBlue did all it could to recover from that, but it's not the only airline that was affected by that winter storm - Delta, American, etc. In this instance, it's the same. Qantas' "bad rap" is driven by a media frenzy, but at the same time they forgot to mention that aborted landings/takeoffs happen every day throughout the world, whether we know about them or not. It's more or less a story of a tree that's fallen in the woods. Qantas' tree was heard (loud and clear, too)

I can't blame the media entirely - they report on what people want to watch. If people weren't so deathly afraid of air travel (I'm exaggerating a bit), maybe the media would be "fair and balanced" towards airline and air travel.


25 Gemuser : NOT so! QF spent nothing repairing that aircraft. Their insurance company did. The insurance company also made the decision on whether to repair or s
26 Post contains links Jetfuel : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...03714&s=qantas+fleet+age#ID3203714 It used to sell its aircraft with buyers keen to buy the exceptionally maint
27 Jfr : Question: Does any of this current brouhaha have anything to do with QF maintenance unions being angry about the airline's attempt to ship some mainte
28 ThomasCook : I am in Hong Kong after another perfectly incident free sector to add to the other 60+ I have so far operated this year but I am absolutley disgusted
29 Gerry : Or what about this from a letter to the Melbourne "Age" today? I am becoming increasingly sceptical that all the current problems plaguing Qantas are
30 Post contains links SInGAPORE_AIR : I was just directed to this pertinent article which raises issues concerning an Air Operator's Certificate (AOC) that I was not aware of. Qantas proba
31 TN486 : my thoughts exactly mate, and I suspect a lot of this "media feeding" IMHO is coming from "exterior" sources, not just internally.
32 Singapore_Air : For those who chastise the media for doing their job: ''It's good that the press has picked up on the minor incidents that previously would not be rep
33 High_flyr69 : The LAEA has its own personal agenda on this issue and despite them having a valid argument relating to work conditions and renumeration packages the
34 Zkpilot : Its called a media beatup... basically because QF has one serious incident any other minor incidents that occur get blown out of proportion. Part of t
35 HKGKaiTak : I too believe the whole "problem" with QF at the moment is a media beat-up, however it's interesting to note how the layperson's response (even those
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