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BA, IB & AA Seal Alliance?  
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12498 posts, RR: 46
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9416 times:
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Just hitting the news now, but not many details yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7560790.stm

Quote:
British Airways says it has sealed an alliance with American Airlines that will allow the two carriers to fix fares, routes and schedules together.




Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

Ive just read this on BA's internal news.

It looks as if BA, IB and AA are to ask for a joint business agreement covering flights between the US, Mexico and Canada and the EU, Switzerland and Norway.
The agreement will also expand BA's codeshare arrangements with American on flights within and beyond the EU and the US, significantly increasing the number of destinations BA can offer.

The benefits for the customers are:
Greater access to discounted fares
Better alignment of schedules to provide smoother connections
Fairer competition with Star Alliance and SkyTeam, providing bigger choice of fares and routings for transfer passengers based in UK and overseas
BA codeshares to 122 new destinations with through ticketing, through baggage and reciprocal frequent-flier benefits
More flexible and more geographically-extensive flight packages for corporate customers
Greater ability to withstand current industry crisis and provide quality services and value-for-money fares in the future

It is also mentioned that Finnair and Royal jordanian are part of the application.

Also mentioned was that this was completely seperate to the merger with IB due to current ownership regulations in the US

Exciting times ahead

[Edited 2008-08-14 05:56:10]


There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9322 times:

OneWorld Airways.

Has a nice ring to it, I must admit!  Smile



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8340 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9281 times:
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The LHR sots are my concern. The only route where traffic needs to be split more is JFK, I an see AA/BA giving up 3 or 4 slot pairs but no more. IF Virgin has 4 JFK flights and DElta has 3 or 4 no one has the right to complain. DL will be the likely beneficiary of any slots give aways by BA/AA.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9279 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
OneWorld Airways.

Has a nice ring to it, I must admit!

I'd prefer to take one word from each of the 3 airlines

British Iberian Airlines  Wink

I wonder how many transatlantic flights they'll have to sacrifice, especially between LHR and JFK? Or does openskies negate this?



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1137 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9250 times:

Very good, it was about time and they deserve to get anti-trust immunity like its competitors (STAR/Skyteam).

User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9135 times:

Open Skies hasnt really opened up competition while BA has such a position with slots. last time they were asked to give up 16 daily slot pairs which they said no to.

Lets see what they have to do this time.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9100 times:

I just hope this works in reality. My experience with One World up to now is too bad, American Airlines gate agent in MIA once told me that passengers booked for connecting flights by BA are in prio behind AA stand by passengers, and his manager gave him right. BA staff confirmed that that unfortunately was daily reality, and was able to book us on LAN.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9060 times:

Well whilst I am sure they will get it this time it will be interesting at what cost it will be to both BA and AA at LHR in terms of slots they will have to cede.
I am just waiting for the official response from VS who will seriously start throwing their toys out the pram...........will we see slogans down the side of VS aircraft again...ala "No Way BA/AA".......it would not surprise me.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9063 times:

I just got this from AA. I hope this means I can fly BA from IAD to LGW on AAdvantage miles:
------------------
More Choices Connecting You To The World

August 14, 2008

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx,

I want to thank you for your support of American Airlines and share some exciting news. Today American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia signed a Joint Business Agreement (JBA) to cooperate on flights between North America and Europe, and announced that we plan to expand our global cooperation. Though our three airlines will continue to operate as separate legal entities – with our own fleets, employees and brands – we will cooperate more closely to improve travel choices, offer more convenient schedules and give customers more opportunities to earn and redeem frequent flyer miles.

Today's announcement represents good news for travelers. Our customers will be able to travel more easily on a oneworld network that includes nearly 9,000 daily departures to 663 destinations in 134 countries via flight schedules that will be coordinated to deliver more conveniences and choices. As an example, here in the U.S., customers and communities will gain improved access to 207 new international destinations just by our ability to link our networks.

We also plan to expand our codesharing and offer combinable fares, allowing customers to choose from multiple routings across the entire oneworld network rather than just those flights marketed individually by each airline. This will also allow us to offer our customers and communities greater access to more competitive fares and ultimately the ability to fly on new and expanded routes.

As a result, you'll have greater opportunities to earn and redeem your American Airlines AAdvantage miles on each airline's transatlantic flights. Reciprocal lounge access with British Airways, Iberia and other oneworld members will continue as it is today – however, with an expanded network and more codesharing choices, customers will have more opportunities to take advantage of this valuable benefit.

As a key first step, our three airlines – along with Finnair and Royal Jordanian, our transatlantic partners in the oneworld global alliance – plan to apply today with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to receive global antitrust immunity. This will not only help us work together more closely for the benefit of our customers, employees and shareholders, but will also allow the oneworld alliance to compete more effectively with SkyTeam and the Star Alliance, which already enjoy broad immunity among their global air alliance members.

Although these changes, if approved, will take some time to be implemented, we will be in touch as new information becomes available. In the meantime, please visit www.aa.com for more information.

We hope that you are excited about the great benefits and choices that will take place from this proposed relationship. We will keep you posted on the latest developments. Again, I want to thank you for flying American Airlines.

Sincerely yours,

Dan Garton
Executive Vice President, Marketing



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8981 times:

Not sure I like this, if I book a flight on ba.com then I want to be on a BA plane not Iberia or American, also the more airlines club together like this the less competition there will be which hurts consumers but as long as the shareholders are happy who cares about poor old passengers.


British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24928 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8946 times:



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):

I wonder how many transatlantic flights they'll have to sacrifice, especially between LHR and JFK? Or does openskies negate this?

I just wonder whetehr they'll "have to" drop MAN-ORD.

This could possibly be very bad news for the consumers.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8933 times:



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 10):
Not sure I like this, if I book a flight on ba.com then I want to be on a BA plane not Iberia or American, also the more airlines club together like this the less competition there will be which hurts consumers but as long as the shareholders are happy who cares about poor old passengers

How do you think those of us that are loyal to KLM feel when in the USA the KLM flights and booking are all handled by Northwest Airlines...  crazy 


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

I really think that the authorities should approve this alliance, I mean they approved an alliance at Skyteam and Star.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8776 times:

How are regulators likely to view this - in a Europe-USA context, or a LHR-JFK context?


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8730 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
Well whilst I am sure they will get it this time it will be interesting at what cost it will be to both BA and AA at LHR in terms of slots they will have to cede.

They shouldn't seed any slots. All othera alliances had it easy. And if VS wants to compete more, they should buy aircraft or slots or cacal one or 2 services to HKG, JNB or LOS and start its own services to JFK, IAH or DFW....



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8706 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 9):
hope this means I can fly BA from IAD to LGW

It wont. Nor BA or AA fly to LGW from IAD

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 10):
Not sure I like this, if I book a flight on ba.com then I want to be on a BA plane not Iberia or American, also the more airlines club together like this the less competition there will be which hurts consumers but as long as the shareholders are happy who cares about poor old passengers.

I'm pretty sure that you will be able to tell which airline you will be flying on. Its a legal obligation to tell you whether the flight is operated by BA or one of their partners. Take the BA flights to spain that are operated by IB. When booking on ba.com it will make you well aware that the flight is operated by IB



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8671 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 12):
How do you think those of us that are loyal to KLM feel when in the USA the KLM flights and booking are all handled by Northwest Airlines...

Probably the same way those of us who are loyal to NWA feel when in Europe when all functions are done by KLM. that is the way a joint venture works if done properly.


User currently offlineIloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8566 times:

So, will VS paint "No Way BA/AA/IB!" on their planes, similar to what they did in the late '90s when BA & AA tried to form a partnership?

User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8511 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
The LHR sots are my concern. The only route where traffic needs to be split more is JFK, I an see AA/BA giving up 3 or 4 slot pairs but no more

Its Open Skies, they dont need to give up anything. Even if they gave up slots they cant be forced to give up frequency on LHR-JFK.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
I just wonder whetehr they'll "have to" drop MAN-ORD.

1. Since both BA and AA dont fly that route why would AA have to drop it?
2. In Open Skies you cant force an airline to drop a route. Slots maybe given up, but given the poor performance of LHR with all the extra capcity it isnt like DL/CO/NW/US are begging for new LHR frequencies.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8458 times:

Not sure how long this process will take but in my ideal world travelling on Star carriers, LH will now buy BD, in doing so will also gain slots that BA/AA have to give up to competition and then BD will start flying LHR-JFK on their metal on wide bodies they have got from LH, thus they can maintain their full schedule at LHR......Thats my dream scenario......never going to happen like that I know but we can all dream!!!  Big grin

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8447 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
I am just waiting for the official response from VS who will seriously start throwing their toys out the pram...........will we see slogans down the side of VS aircraft again...ala "No Way BA/AA".......it would not surprise me.



Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 18):
So, will VS paint "No Way BA/AA/IB!" on their planes, similar to what they did in the late '90s when BA & AA tried to form a partnership?

The official response from Virgin's stable can be found here

Quote:
Virgin Atlantic today warned that BA’s third attempt to tie-up with American Airlines would create a monster monopoly that would push up ticket prices and substantially reduce competition on the busiest air corridor in the world.

No more a monster monopoly than AF/KL/DL and NW.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8205 times:



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 19):
. In Open Skies you cant force an airline to drop a route. Slots maybe given up, but given the poor

What poor performance are you speaking of?


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3572 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8040 times:



Quoting Gman94 (Reply 10):
Not sure I like this, if I book a flight on ba.com then I want to be on a BA plane not Iberia or American,

Hopefully the tie up would reslut in AA & IB's inflight service going up to BA's, rathe rthan BA's decending.

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 18):
So, will VS paint "No Way BA/AA/IB!" on their planes, similar to what they did in the late '90s when BA & AA tried to form a partnership?

Probably being done at this very minute
 hissyfit 


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7998 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
What poor performance are you speaking of?

Well US was mentioning that their PHL-LHR was well below expectations. It is simple economics. When you open up LHR, you cannot expect that the new capacity will perform as well as the previously existing capacity.


25 Airbazar : What about Crappy Hub Airways? LHR, MAD, MIA, is there a worse combination of hubs?
26 BMIFlyer : Interesting, it has taken them quite a while to get this agreed has it not?
27 AIR MALTA : If BD needs all this help to operate a LHR-JFK, they might as well go bust... BD has enough slots and aircraft to operate any routes it needs without
28 Super80DFW : Does this mean IB might start a MAD-DFW flight? Also, will their Mileage Programs be consolidated into one?
29 Scbriml : The reason for adding the "?" to the thread title was because, reading the article, it seems that while the airlines have reached agreement between t
30 AirbusA6 : Hopefully this won't result in every BA flight at LHR having 5 different flight numbers, and hopelessly cluttering up the departure boards as a result
31 MAH4546 : Extremely unlikely, but AA likely will, IMO. It also means, IMO, that once this gets into full gear AA and BA will likely end duplications on BOS-LHR
32 UAL777UK : Oh don't go all pro BA on me......mine was a light hearted comment..calm down
33 Bobnwa : As far as I know, DL,Co and NW are meeting or exceeding expectations. They were already in the London market flying to LGW so it is not as if it were
34 Andaman : Sounds good to me too!
35 SPREE34 : Likewise. I love BA, and quit flying AA for a list of reasons. I too worry about this. BA is unbeatable. I found IB above par. I have no use for AA w
36 David_itl : AA have only been flying that route since 1986! Unusually for them (!), BA complained when AA increased frequency in the mid 1990s with a 2nd daily s
37 Avek00 : IINM, all of the LHR new entrants have thus far given some indications that they're extremely disappointed with the financial performance of their ne
38 Adicool : that's exactly what I thought and I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Never say never...
39 CityofAthens : I'm not sure that the agreement will have any bearing on service levels whatsoever (I would love to be wrong). This is primarily a commercial agreemen
40 Avek00 : Won't happen - each airline will retain its own loyalty program. .. Interesting that no one has talked about the fact that Royal Jordanian is part of
41 Theginge : I see SRB and Virgin are moaning at the prospect, now why don't they if they are worried about BA becoming too big seek ties with BMI and Lufthansa as
42 EXAAUADL : No, I meant both together. I know AA has been flying ORD-MAN. Question is why would they have to drop it? But all the capacity into LHR will ultimate
43 Jacobin777 : Check out what flight AA-55 is... Now admit your mistake..
44 Airbazar : New doesn't mean better. The IB staff on the group at MAD is absolutely horrible. I really don't think T5 will the the saviour of LHR that people are
45 VikingA346 : My question is that, why are we including Canada in this? AA and IB have no investments in Canada, why would BA want to revenue share Canada flights??
46 Humberside : I think it was more a joke than a sensible comment. As has hapenned in the past, BA prefers to route MAN passengers through London (hence being calle
47 Bobnwa : Well, I know that Canada and Mexico are included in the NW/KL agreement so they must think it is a good idea. On this side of the ocean NW does all t
48 Commavia : Well, it's glad they finally made it officially, since we all knew it was coming. Now, I sincerely hope it will go through. There is now absolutely no
49 Dano1977 : Got this in my e-mail this evening.... Dear xxxxxxx I am writing to you to ensure that you are one of the first to hear about the latest news from Bri
50 Skyhigh : Does anyone have an idea of the sort of time frame we are looking at, once the application is presented for approval?
51 Chgoflyer : Does this mean AA customers will now earn miles on BA Atlantic fights and vice versa?
52 Commavia : If approved, yes. AAdvantage and Executive Club members will have total earn/burn freedom on any and all AA and/or BA flights.
53 PRAirbus : Virgin and Branson need to GET A LIFE!!! AA/BA/IB is in no way worse than the other alliances.
54 Dano1977 : I heard on BBC News24 last night, the Sir Dickie Branson has written to Presidential hopefulls Barrack Obama and John McCain that Anti Trust Imunity
55 Sketty222 : Good old Sir Dickie is just jealous that his airline aren't in the same position that BA are.
56 Post contains links EUROBUS : I have received a similar letter from IB as a sapphire member. Notice what was added at the end, a link to www.moretravelchoices.com I suggest to ent
57 BCAL : I hope that Barrack Obama and John McCain both remember that Branson was the man who conspired with BA over fuel prices to fleece the passengers. Bra
58 Aisak : Not just top-tier members. I and my parents received yesterday the same mail. I am not, for sure, going to spend my time or money to send an internat
59 Spud757 : Not with BD on the route codesharing with UA BD has enough slots but not enough long-haul metal to operate the frequencies required (without sacrific
60 EI564 : Its not an automatic suspension. Individual countries may act if they wish but clearly another game is afoot. The UK was the one country unhappy with
61 Post contains links Anax : I just received a letter from IB (FF there) informing me of all this. In the letter they include Finnair and Royal Jordanian. They have a site www.mor
62 Dano1977 : What can Sir Dickie Branson and VS do? VS is part owned (49% holding) by SQ, so they could join the star alliance, but with Bmi as a member, perhaps
63 BCAL : They are in a similar position as many failed UK airlines of the past. The root of the problem for VS might be the fact that it "punches far above it
64 Airbazar : Not really. Other alliances don't take up such a big stake of VS home hub, and other alliances don't have such dominance of any World market as the T
65 Baroque : Surely they are not all drunk at LHR - are they? I find it pretty amazing that such a link-up comes in the wake of all the kerfuffle over price fixin
66 MMEPHX : it is a bit two faced of SRB to complain about the anti-competitiveness of this deal and then have conspired to actually fix prices with BA in the pa
67 McMax : The previous times AA and BA tried to get ATI, they were subject to demands to relinquish significant slots at LHR. I know BA and IB are discussing a
68 Aisak : Don't fly Transatlantic They don't? AF-DL + NW-KLM + AZ + OK seem like a pretty dominance of that key world market. Star ATIed airlines also have a r
69 VV701 : I have no idea, but . . . The UK has an Open Skies agreement with Canada. The EU has an Open Skies agreement with the USA. I assume that the Canadian
70 VikingA346 : As cool as it would be, I doubt it. I don't think BA has that kind of aspirations - what would I know though.. I just find it confusing that BA would
71 David_itl : BA did have YYZ-JFK rights in the good old days when they remembered what the "B" stood for in their initials.
72 AirNZ : Can you not just use the proper name, or does it make you feel important? Although I can see you don't really have much of a clue!
73 Dano1977 : And i thought one of the rules of A.Net was..... "No hostile language or criticizing of others". If you had a problem with my post, then why not priv
74 Sketty222 : With regards to Dano1977 post, I think he may have been referring to the small amount of destinations that VS fly to in North America. They probably
75 Chgoflyer : That sure is good news. It appears that BA/AA will finally be fulling aligned.
76 Dano1977 : Thank you Sketty.... Thats exactly what i ment I just had a brainstorm, and couldn't put it into words........Its been a long week
77 Eyeonthesky17 : Never say never exactly. While Star will have CO to service EWRLHR, they will continue to have no representation on the premier JFKLHR route - a gapi
78 Viscount724 : There is another Transatlantic oneworld member, but only from South America - LAN.
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