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AA Request DOT To Use Dormant UA Brazil Rights  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25725 posts, RR: 50
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4206 times:

AA petitioned the DOT to strip United of one of its Brazil frequencies to allow AA to up its new Miami-Belo Horizonte from 3x to 4x per week effective Nov 2nd.

AA right fully claims, UA has not fully used its allocated Brazil frequencies since 2005, and for 30 of the last 44 months has only used 14 of its allotted 23 frequencies.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4143 times:

While everyone has expected that UA would be challenged for not using its Brazil frequencies to their max, you have to wonder what AA is doing by asking for ONE frequency when they could go for a lot more….

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4028 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
While everyone has expected that UA would be challenged for not using its Brazil frequencies to their max, you have to wonder what AA is doing by asking for ONE frequency when they could go for a lot more….

I think the reason is the market is getting saturated


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6003 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3942 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
While everyone has expected that UA would be challenged for not using its Brazil frequencies to their max, you have to wonder what AA is doing by asking for ONE frequency when they could go for a lot more....

I think the reason is the market is getting saturated

Thats probably partly it, the other reason is UA actually uses 21 of frequencies seasonally, they can probably get away with stripping UA of a couple of the frequencies but the other 21 are actually used.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3907 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

AA right fully claims, UA has not fully used its allocated Brazil frequencies since 2005, and for 30 of the last 44 months has only used 14 of its allotted 23 frequencies.

So those 2 frequencies were allocated after all. I thought they only had 21 frequencies. Why not take both then?

[Edited 2008-08-14 12:22:19]

User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3828 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
Why not take both then?

Porbably because, for the time being AA think the market is not big enough for 5weekly flights.

BTW, does anyone know the history of DoT reallocating unused frequencies?


User currently offlineSBRFtoEHAM From Brazil, joined May 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Not sticking exactly to the topic, but in (very) related news, the government of the state of Pernambuco (where REC lies) announced yesterday (Aug 13) that AA "confirmed" that on Nov 2 it will start MIA-SSA-REC-MIA with B763. They even state the departure times: Leaving REC daily at 11:35, and arriving MIA at 17:40.


REC,AMS and a few others...
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3684 times:



Quoting SBRFtoEHAM (Reply 6):
Not sticking exactly to the topic, but in (very) related news, the government of the state of Pernambuco (where REC lies) announced yesterday (Aug 13) that AA "confirmed" that on Nov 2 it will start MIA-SSA-REC-MIA with B763. They even state the departure times: Leaving REC daily at 11:35, and arriving MIA at 17:40.

That's really old news:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4069548/
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4100407/


User currently offlineSBRFtoEHAM From Brazil, joined May 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

C010T3, I was not trying to announce the flights existence (that, as pointed, are already well known by the readers of this forum) , but rather make a comment about the "official" announcement by the state government, with according "non-specialized" local press coverage, which occurred yesterday.


REC,AMS and a few others...
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3385 times:



Quoting SBRFtoEHAM (Reply 8):
C010T3, I was not trying to announce the flights existence (that, as pointed, are already well known by the readers of this forum) , but rather make a comment about the "official" announcement by the state government, with according "non-specialized" local press coverage, which occurred yesterday.

And how is that important?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8420 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
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AA always wanting more to Brazil. Chile and Argentina. To bad United has practically given up on GRU & EZE.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5492 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2881 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
So those 2 frequencies were allocated after all. I thought they only had 21 frequencies. Why not take both then?

It may be that AA is sending UA a message by asking only for exactly what they can use profitably without setting off a dormant-frequency grabbing war.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2807 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):

It may be that AA is sending UA a message by asking only for exactly what they can use profitably without setting off a dormant-frequency grabbing war.

But AA already flies a lot of extra flights to GRU in high season. AA could definately use that frequency on a seasonal basis to GRU instead of asking for some extra frequencies, which is always uncertain. That frequency is not being used at all, so it's not a real problem. I actually think that UA is not that concerned about the request either, as long as nobody goes for their 7 seasonal frequencies.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2709 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
I think the reason is the market is getting saturated

Saturated ? It's far from being saturated ! US-Brazil is probably one of the best yields DL, AA and CO get on their networks. Fares are incredible high (you can't buy a R/T ticket Brazil-US-Brazil for high season on Y for less than US$ 1,600 and some routes you even wont find anything for less than US$ 2,200). In July, it was cheaper to fly GIG-CDG in Business than GIG-MIA in Economy!

Quoting United1 (Reply 3):
Thats probably partly it, the other reason is UA actually uses 21 of frequencies seasonally, they can probably get away with stripping UA of a couple of the frequencies but the other 21 are actually used.

United1, UA actually uses 7 of 23 frequencies seasonally (on IAD-GIG). The other two flights are year round. What AA is asking for is 1 out of 2 additional frequencies (the frequencies 104 and 105, lets say). Nowadays airlines under US flag runs 103 out of 105 possible weekly flights and 7 of them are seasonal (UA IAD-GIG).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
While everyone has expected that UA would be challenged for not using its Brazil frequencies to their max, you have to wonder what AA is doing by asking for ONE frequency when they could go for a lot more....

Seems that they can apply just for 2 frequencies. I don't know such fact, but seems that UA is in possession of 23 weekly flights, and not 21 as we always expect.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2334 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Saturated ? It's far from being saturated !

I think it's a question more of uncertainty than saturation. AA doesn't want to flood the market with too many frequencies in a time of quickly increasing service. While I think AA will ultimately find that the market is not saturated, they're taking it slowly (and implicitly making an assumption that this frequency will be easier to acquire than one of the frequencies from the last round of awards).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6003 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2256 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
nited1, UA actually uses 7 of 23 frequencies seasonally (on IAD-GIG).

Correct, sorry I phrased it badly, UA uses 14 frequencies years round and 7 seasonally.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2204 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I think it's a question more of uncertainty than saturation. AA doesn't want to flood the market with too many frequencies in a time of quickly increasing service. While I think AA will ultimately find that the market is not saturated, they're taking it slowly (and implicitly making an assumption that this frequency will be easier to acquire than one of the frequencies from the last round of awards).

Could be, but i may see that they will have 1 plane available 1 day of the week, and tried their best also not to have a good equipment grounded without generating revenue.
Also could be the fact they understand it's too expensive to open a new station to fly 3x weekly considering a plane will be on ground for more than 14 hours. They need to increase the usage level in order to be competitive also.

Just a possibility.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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