Matt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1244 times:
There are so many theories and stories surrounding that incident that we will probably never know the full truth. Add to that both sides have presented awfully strong cases. And even if the truth were presented, many people will still never believe it.
I guess it all boils down to whatever you WANT to believe. Some support the missile theory. Others the fuel vapors. It's almost like a religion to them.
Ale74 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1200 times:
I'm no expert but I remember hearing about fuel tanks ground connection problem on older 741s. Basically the two wing tanks were not at the same potential causing possible sparks in one of the tanks.... my knowlegde is superficial and I don't know many details of this theory, or if I explained it correctly... I'd sure like to know if others heard this, or learn more.
Twotterwrench From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1175 times:
I have no doubt whatsoever that the center fuel tank exploded. Where I disagree with the official report is that I know it exploded when a missle flew through it. The eyewitness testimony of over 300 witnesses cannot be ignored. And one of the eyewitnesses was a naval munitions expert. He, of all people, would know what a missle striking an aircraft looks like. I work with jet fuel everyday. Low voltage sparks in the fuel cell are not only not likely to happen, but are surely not capable of igniting jet fuel. The igniters that light the misted fuel in the engines run at 40,000 volts or more. Jet fuel just isn't that volatile, not even in vapor form. Cover up? maybe.... misleading information..... certainly. But the question remains, how DID the navy respond so quickly to this incident when it normally takes them days or weeks to repond? And, why did they not allow civilian assistance until after the area had been thouroughly purged of evidence? Too much here smells rotten for it not to be rotten....
Jzucker From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 100 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1158 times:
I thought that I would add the fact that a "missile like object" was caught by accident in a pciture of a women getting married. When enhanced, the object was clearly a large missile. I was stunned. I stared at the TV in disbelief....
B757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1153 times:
If you're talking about the same show I saw, they also say that an analysis of the picture of that "missile" shows it going in a direction away from where TWA800 would have been.
My personal opinion is that it was hit by a UFO that had suffered some kind of propulsion failure. lol j/k.
I'm don't feel like spending the hour it would take to talk about all the evidence to debunk the missile theory but my opinion is that the crash was precipitated by a mechanical failure caused by lax maintenance on an aging aircraft.
ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1134 times:
I sort of believed it at first (and given the total ineptitude and carelessness of the US military
on occasion, as evidenced by the Ehima-Maru
incident off Hawaii), I would not have been
surprised if a missile had in fact destroyed the
TWA 747. But, I no longer believe that theory.
The plane was 26 years old and while I think
TWA had excellent safety standards overall,
this accident happened as a combination of
an old plane, design flaw, and pure bad luck.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1105 times:
I wouldn't be supprised if a missle did infact down TWA 800. But keep in mid that there were similar accidents that did take place due to fuel tank problems like the MD-80 incident in the Philipines that exploded on the ground. Didn't RdnGold loose two friends aboard TWA 800? What does she think about what downed TWA 800? Some families are actually beyond caring because if it is a missle then the US gov will do anything to cover it up. I won't be surprised if the Navy, FBI, TWA and NTSB covered it up altogether if someday it's proven. I bet you that there is a buch of reports at the CIA or the archieves about this. If TWA was found to have been involved to save their a$$es then I'll sell or destroy all off all my TWA merchandise and loose respect for them; Just like I did with PAN AM aka Corporation of murderurs (according to PA 103 families)when they were negelgent when they had lax security at FRA as well as being found neglagent in the safety and security off PA 03 passengers as well as having crappy management which lead to the PA 103 bombing that killed my best frined and his family on board Ditto for the groups above.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1097 times:
I had just gor a horrible thought. What if there were passengers and crew who did surive but were then left to die to protect the Navy in what they did. I pray that this is not true and that someone can prove me wrong. For the passenger's and crew's sake I hope they were all killed on impact then left to die in the atlantic when Navy ships refused to pick them up and the crew on-board had pretended not to hear their calls for help in oreder for the gov to protect it's ass from potential witnesses. I had just got a horrible vison that this happened. This is the scaruest I've had since I had dreamt of being on board PA 103 and had died with him and his family. I pray that this is not true otherwise as soon as I'm done with University I'm moving out of the US. I can't bear paying taxes and supporting a government that took so many innocent lives at their prime. Families of PA 103 as well as firends had dificulties communticating and were always snubbed by the George Bush Administration and Clinton didn't do much himself. He didn't do anything to help us seek justice. If it is true and my vision is correct then this makes me hurt and ashamned that I'm an american and this is happening all over again. I'll be relieved if someone can come up with evidence that I'm wrong. I went through the pain of loosing my best friend on PA 103 at age 9 when I was 9 myself. It'll be more heart wrenching to know that some child around the world is going through the same hell and pain that I did. I hate to be in the parent or parents shoes in trying to expain death to a nine year old a few days before Christmas as well as to explain on why he'll never be back for Thanksgivings, Christmases, birthdays, summers, watch you grow and live out life. Death of someone you love and care for can't be called back as I learned the hard way at a very young age. Once loved ones are gone; then thats it. It's perminant. It was very devistating to me and my family. Families are destroyed and the lives lost will never be replced; The survivors lives can never be repaired. Although some do find some sort of closure; Tragically some don't even find closure. One man I had talked to who lost his daughter on PA 103 said "Closure will come to me when the lid to my coffin is shut."
United Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9036 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1073 times:
It COULD be a missile.
Or due to other wave intervention around the sea........ It is something to do with the radio communications between the fighter planes as well as the Aircraft Carrier. That is what I have heard before.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1047 times:
TG992; It's ok I'm not offended. I'm pretty much over it. I'm just giving you an explanation on pretty much what TWA 800 families had gone through for the duration of the investigation. Try imagining being in their shoes after hearin on whether if a bomb, missle or mech failure downed your loved ones pain. Believe me after the trial(quite happy with the verdict and I do agree with the evidence) I'm even more better and it does bring closure. Look at my posts carefully. I don't mention it in all of them. Only in the PA 103 or PA posts. I don't want people to forget on what happened. I want them not only to remeber the bombing, but the betrayls(the airline as well as a few government agencies) and the family's search for justice as well as the 270 that never made it back home.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7808 posts, RR: 54 Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1034 times:
"I won't be surprised if the Navy, FBI, TWA and NTSB covered it up altogether if someday it's proven." Oh please. You think the thousands of people involved are capable of keeping this secret? Have you ever had a secret between two friends? How long before it came out? A week? Two?
I'd be more worried about the fact that the US Navy really DID shoot down an Iran Air A300 on a published airlane over international waters. Or the framing of Libyan suspects after the Pan Am 747 disaster over Scotland, which the US Gov't really DOES know more about than it's letting on.
Why can't people just accept that TWA 800 was a tragic accident waiting to happen to an airliner that had flown way past it's design life? It has to involve the government being out to get people, lie to them, cover stuff up. This isn't the X-Files, grow up.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Advancedkid From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 762 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1016 times:
Cedarjet I agree with your comment to some extend.
VirginA340, what if more evidence comes up, proving
that the one Libyan individual, agent, suspect, is also
innocent? Will you start having horrible dreams again?
I think you are very much a make believe person.
Unfortunatly, many a time one is not given the truth
about everything. If you want truth, then you better quit
trusting the big players in world politics.
Imagine a close relative of yours being wrongly
accused of downing an Aircraft, what would you feel?
My case has rested long time ago.
Carioca Canuck From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1003 times:
No disrespect intended here, but I'll assume that you have never served in the military forces of any country for a moment, as it appears you are not aware of the powers of persuasion that are available to members of the military command heirarchy.
I have.....as an intelligence officer in my armored regiment of the Canadian Armed Forces.
I know "A LOT" of things that I still cannot(and will not)talk about to this day.........19 years after I served my 6 year stint. Believe me.......the alternative is not pleasant.
A TWA 800 coverup ??? No problem...................
B757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 24 Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 999 times:
No matter what anyone says on these forums, there are always the assholes who come on here and talk trash about others. Just because you do not agree with someone or they say something that is incorrect you just have to start calling them ignorant, stupid, or worse. Until you've never made a mistake, stop criticizing others.
BTW, I'll try to clarify my comment on lax maintenance. At the time, no one realized that aging wiring could be a major problem on older aircraft. Because of this, no one was required to preform specialized maintenance on aircraft electrical wiring. The lax maintenance was not the fault of any one organization or company. As far as anyone can tell, the FAA and Boeing did not know the dangers of wiring in aging aircraft. Unfortunately, it seems that we only know about a specific problem after an airliner has crashed.
Now I might not work for Boeing, Airbus, the FAA, the NTSB, or an airline but that doesn't mean I am a ignorant fool. I might not be able to tell you how the electronics on a 777 work, but I can hold my own with a good number of the people on this forum.
Corey777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 986 times:
A lot of this faulty wiring vs missle thing seems to center around the volatility/flammablility of Jet-A. If you were to try to ignite an amount of Jet-A with a match, would it work? If not, wouldn't that rule out the possibility of sparking wires blowing up a plane? I've heard it takes a lot to ignite the stuff.
I believe the US government would go to great lengths to cover up a missle, and I don't put it past them to do so.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 990 times:
Cedarjet; appartently you haven't talked to any of the armend forces or any of the ex CIA, FBI or any other governmet agencies on a possibility that this might have happened. Listen to what Cairoca Canuck is telling you. There are many files on the case that are still to this day confidential. You are living in a another planet if you don't belive that nothing like this can happen. So before you have the nerve to tell a person who had a best friend who was blown up aloong with his family why don't you try and keep an open mind on stuff that is out there and refuses to die. I find it quite stange that many people around the world will believe that there is a goverment cover up in the JFK assassination, and Gulf war syndrome right to alien landings at area 51 and people will want this out in the open and will do anything just to prove that the gov did know about it. But when 230 people get blown up in a 747 out of the sky right before more than 300 people in Long Island including members of the local Coast Guard everyone will say anyone believing in a coverup by the gov as well as other parties. I'm as well as others including the victims families are being called lyers, crazy or being told to shut up. Cedarjet until you've seen, been with me or even walked a mile in my shoes or any of the other shoes of anyone whose lost a loved one in something theis terrible (in which you probably haven't and I hope you never find out my pain and suffering) Then you shouldn't be telling me to disregard in what I believe as well and tell me to grow up You sound no better than the government officials as well as PAN AM executive who swore that the Helsinki Warning was not true when infact it was. I was a victim of it as well as others. I didn't ask for this neiter did they. The problem is nieve people like you who won't belive that stuff like this can happen unless if it's you or anyone you care and love. I don't expect you to understand. You sound no better than the politicans and the executives from PAN AM that we had to deal with after the bombing about not only the Helsinki warning but as well as other info from what the gov knew about the plane to how shoddy PA's security at FRA really was when they just wanted it out of the way and not have to put up with it. By the way I said if these organizations have been involved. Big difference. Stranger thing have happened before when the gov is involved. Just ask the ex CIA agents out there and trhey'll tell you. You've really got to be nieve if you believe that this crap doesn't happen.
Advance kid; I'd appriciate if if you stop verbally stalking on this forum. What in the hell do you mean by calling me make believe!?! How about you come up to JFK near New York City and I'll show you how make believe I am. You wouldn't want to be in the same room with me or any of the other PA 103 families spewing you retoric your comment was out of line and you are quite disrespectful. Yes I would be quite saddened if a realtive of mine was accused of such a horrible crime. I don't trust the big players of politics but rather the evidence presented at the trail and the witness to the clothing store owner that did id Megrahi in the store who bought the clothes that matched the clothes found in Lockerbie as well as The Mebo exec who also had testified along with evidence from the plane. If more evidence happens to come out then the case will be reviewed. But until lthat happens then. I can't imagine anyone being wrongly accused. Now try to imagine a young child being told by his parents that he won't see his best friend again or the family he was with a few days before christmas because his plane crashed. Try to imagine on what my parents gone through in tring to tell their child that someone had blown him up and 270 innocent people who didn't even had the chance to fight back. Read the book PAN AM 103. A good book written by Susan and Dan Cohen. They had a doughter who was part of the 35 Syracuse University students that were murdered on-board the plane. She was on 20 years old. Yes Adance kid I do have nightmare to this day but no as frequent and I do take medication as well as get counseling for my trama. I hope that you are happy with yourself that you are trying to implicate that I'm a lyer (which I'm not) and that I'm not real. I am quite real. Unless you have lost someone you love in something this devistating then you have no idea on what they have to go through to pick up the peices and just try to get through another painful day knowing that they'll never be the same that a piece of their hearts were ripped out. That can never be replaced. I may not be good in verbal arguments. Bu I among many others are living examples of what we have to go through just to try and move on. So you had better quit patting yourself on the back and enlarging your ego because you will not further destroy me than I've already have been.
Travatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 975 times:
I'm gonna have to go with Cedarjet on this one. I simply cannot believe that a cover up involving a high-profile accident of this magnitude was possible. Especially in an electronic information age supplied with a media that is obsessed with both coverups and aviation accidents. Please understand, it's not that I would necessarily put it past the US, or any country's government, for that matter - unfortunately our American government seems much to inept to pull something like this off.
Also, for those in this forum who have lost close friends and family in delilberate criminal aviation accidents, I am so very sorry. Your pain is unfathomable. However, I too have lost friends in a commercial accident (ValuJet 592). And although this accident was not a deliberate terrorist act, I know first hand the grief and sorrow of a plane crash.
That said....let us please keep our discussions on the topics. I am not dismissing anyone's pain in the face of such a tragedy, but this thread was meant to discuss the missile theory of TWA800.
Advancedkid From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 762 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 963 times:
You have missunderstood me all the way
and I wonder if it is your intention.
Of course I understand your pain for the loss
of a dear friend at the age of nine. I never
implemented that you are a liar either.
You better clarify how you got that notion.
What I am trying to show you is that you
are treating both cases of TW800 and
PA103 differently. On the one hand you
mistrust the government statements regarding
TW 800 but fully believe and trust what the
same government stated about PA103 and the
following trials. The "evidences" examined at
Camp Zeist as you should well know are not
astounding but happen to be circumstantial,
and we never know, hard evidence may still
be discovered either to prove the already
proven circumstantial evidence or even disprove
it. In the later case our only "suspect" would also
be as innocent as his other companion.
What you are doing is "special pleading".
What do you think of the other accused who
wasn't found guilty? You wished he were
guilty? I wonder what you would think if other
hard evidence is shown proving our second
accused is also NOT guilty.
You see, nothing can really be ruled out to
your likes or dislikes.
I hope you have a nice day and a good night's
25 VirginA340: Advance kid; You Why are you trying to force your opinions on me where did I say in my post that I trust the US gov? I trust in the evidence that was
26 FDXmech: I also agree with Cedarjet. I was following the U.S. Congressional hearings on this tragedy a couple years ago and one piece of testimony really caugh
27 Cedarjet: The evidence presented re PA103 was full of holes, the evidence of the shopkeeper in Malta was by no means conclusive and the Scottish lawyer who cons
28 Advancedkid: Hi there, Cedarjet, my hat off to your responce reagrding PA103 and the middle east. It couldn't be told any clearer than this. And VirginA340 if you
29 AA777: Anything is possible..... I support the Missile Theory... -AA777
30 Cedarjet: Thanks AdvancedKid, I had a pop at you about Saudi in another thread so your comments here are most charitable. Also on TW800, I'm VERY suspicious of
31 Twotterwrench: In trying to reach an objective opinion about TWA800, you shouldn't overlook the fact that is was many DAYS after the accident occured before any civi
32 TWA_PHX: You all should go to www.whatreallyhappened.com , they have a lot of info and documents on the TWA800 cover-up.
33 Cedarjet: * No amount of effort on the part of Navy divers can eradicate evidence of a missile strike. * The NTSB, once again, are dedicated to making air trave
34 Alpha 1: I believe it about as much as I believe that Elvis, JFK and Hitler are alive and well in South America.
35 Cicadajet: First of all, I absolutely lack the technical knowledge to have an informed opinion on that basis...and I doubt I will ever know for sure...however, a
36 SJC-Alien: This is my take on TW800. This is just from what I've read, and one ex-Pan Am mechanic I just happened to talk to in 1997, never knew the guy, and he
37 Cedarjet: Yes, I know all about the National Security Act, but this does not just involve the military - what about the NTSB? These people are civilians, not mi
38 Twotterwrench: Initially, cedar, there WAS evedence of a missle strike. A very senior flight attentdant at TWA, I am sorry I can't remember her name, pilfered severa
39 Widebody: I'm interested in what B757300 said about that missile in the background...was it proven to be a genuine video, and even if the missile was going the
40 Cedarjet: I've seen the photo (not video) and it is remarkable. There's no question of what it is. God knows what it's doing there. For f***'s sake, you serious
41 SJC-Alien: The book by Donald Schmitt and Kevin Randle, the "UFO crash at Roswell", clearly states from first-hand knowledge from interviews from their investiga
42 FDXmech: What if the Aloha 737 crashed in the Pacific and undersea photos revealed the roof missing? Missile, missile!! 737 just don't spontaneously lose their
43 Cedarjet: SJC Alien, you have too much free time or something. Clinton's knee injured, aliens, bollocks. Ron's ill-fated 737: "Sure, it could have flown right i
44 United_Fan: As much as I don't want to belive it,I belive that a missile did take town TWA 800. I also belive that if the U.S. government admitted to this there
45 Americawest123: Well i think it very well could have been a missile, but if it were the navy would have to act quick to cover it up because missile fragments would ha
46 FDXmech: Its ashame that during the investigation, several government agencys such as NTSB, FAA, FBI, etc were in a power struggle to be in charge of the inves
47 Advancedkid: Hi there, Even if the supposedly bare cables within the Jet-A tank would spark and cause the fuel to ignite it would not have caused an explosion that
48 SJC-Alien: To clarify a couple points that 'Cedarjet' has an issue with: Due to my time squeeze, I didn't properly proof-read my sentence....and I'm sorry. What
49 Cicadajet: actually regarding the FAA and the NTSB, their relationship during the TWA 800 was quite interesting. NTSB wanted FAA to retract or clarify statement
50 Beech_bum: Ron Browns crash was caused by simply moving the NDB on approach in front of a mountain. Or so I have heard.. I had a girlfriend whose Grandfather wa
51 Dcy: I live close to Croatia and have heard a few facts that a few of you may not be aware regarding this crash - 1) the case of the suddenly dying f/a - t
52 TWA: I think it was the frayed wiring in the center fuel tank that sparked, Then ignited the explosion. I dont believe the Missile Theory one bit Regards,
53 Ual747: I did a very detailed research paper on this very topic. All of the research, both first hand and secondary sources as well as airline pilot interview
54 Cody: I was told by a group of TWA pilots one night in STL that they all know it was a missle. They said that a little while after the crash, Erikson was ca