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LX Changed My Flight. Am I Entitled To Anything?  
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Yesterday evening I was due to fly MUC-GVA-LCY with LH/LX. When i went to board the MUC-GVA flight the stewardess told me i had been transferred to the direct LHR flight.

I had paid more to fly into LCY because it is much more convenient for me.
Upon landing at LHR. I went to LH ground staff, and they said LX should provide ground transport to get me back to LCY where i had people waiting for me. LX said they had to do nothing and told me the train was outside if i wanted to get to LCY.

Am I entitled to anything? Should LH/LX have provided some transport to LCY?
In all the change from LCY to LHR added 2 hours to my journey and I could have paid alot less if i wanted to go to LHR.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

They should have offered you to refund your ticket, that's for sure. Also it sounds weird that they'd tell you at boarding. Did you check-in online long before going to the airport?

Lastly, I don't know if they have to compensate you for sending you to a different airport in the same city. In any case it doesn't seem great care was taken in dealing with this change.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Did they put you on a LH flight MUC-LHR? There are also flights from MUC to LCY by Lufthansa, hence why I am asking. They should at least have put you on one of those.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8568 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
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while I think they handled it poorly in terms of communication I think it is also important to find out the reason for the change ( although of course you should not have to hunt for this , they should have told you ) eg was the original flight GVA-LCY cancelled for some reason ? if so they may have believed that they were in fact doing the best thing for their customer by using their initiative to get you directly to LON , however , in the absence of any clear communication to you by either airline it is not possible to know on what basis the decision was made


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

I checked in online in the morning and got my boarding pass about 2pm for the flight at 7pm as i had booked on the airport tour so wouldn't have time after.

I think the GVA-LCY was cancelled, but had they told me earlier they could have put me on MUC-LCY.

I can understand that flights get cancelled and would have been willing to fly to LHR but they should then provide transport for me to get to LCY where i had paid to fly not tell me to get the tube at 9pm after a day of travelling.

Up till this point my flights with Swiss on this day had been great.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

The problem is that airlines tend to take the view that they owe you transportation to LON (in the widest sense) rather than to a specific airport. I remember when an airline cancelled my flight to LGW and they put me on one of their STN services. Those two "London" airports are 130km or so apart and indeed my plan was to go to Brighton from LGW, so STN was totally useless as a gateway. As it turned out to be, I was unable to travel but it took quite an effort to convince the airline that theay had to offer me a full refund rather than simply treat me as a no-show on a re-booked flight to STN.

User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4018 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 5):
The problem is that airlines tend to take the view that they owe you transportation to LON (in the widest sense) rather than to a specific airport

This is fine but when they charge a premium to travel to LCY over LHR it is unacceptable to just change the flight and leave it at that with no compensation or money towards getting me to the destination i paid for.


User currently offlineSwacle From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3998 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 4):
I think the GVA-LCY was cancelled, but had they told me earlier they could have put me on MUC-LCY.



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 6):
This is fine but when they charge a premium to travel to LCY over LHR it is unacceptable to just change the flight and leave it at that with no compensation or money towards getting me to the destination i paid for.

It seems to me they tried to get you to LCY, but you declined? In that case, I think you are entitled to nothing...

Don



Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3975 times:



Quoting Swacle (Reply 7):
It seems to me they tried to get you to LCY, but you declined? In that case, I think you are entitled to nothing

They didn't try! I wanted to go to LCY. I had even booked to go via GVA just to fly to LCY. LH/LX changed my flight to LHR and told me to make my own way from there.
There was no offer of an alternative flight into LCY. I would have hapily accepted any rerouting provided i got in to LCY as it is only 5 minutes for me to get home unlike the near 2 hours on the tube or £60+ in a cab.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

Legally, you should be entitled to compensation because of breach of contract at least under German law.

As far as European law is concerned, IIRC there have been legal disputes about the question whether a passenger is entitlted to denied boarding compensation under EU regulation 261/04 if the passenger is offered a flight to an airport that is covered by the same area code. But I might be wrong here.


P.S.: So what about the MUC-LCY they offered you ? Did you refuse to travel on that LCY flight? If so, I do not think you have a point.


User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3831 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 9):
P.S.: So what about the MUC-LCY they offered you ? Did you refuse to travel on that LCY flight? If so, I do not think you have a point.

No flight to LCY was offered. It was too late at that point. But they could have put out an announcement calling me to the desk or something as soon as they knew, which might have give me a chance to make the MUC-LCY. The only option was you have to take LHR flight, you can sort it out at LHR.

I was not offered any other flight than MUC-LHR.

But i paid to fly MUC-GVA-LCY. I didn't book the MUC-LCY because it left too early where as the MUC-GVA-LCY allowed me to leave at 7pm and arrive at LCY at 9:35pm local time which was perfect.

btw thanks for all your help guys


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3816 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 9):
P.S.: So what about the MUC-LCY they offered you ? Did you refuse to travel on that LCY flight? If so, I do not think you have a point.



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 4):
I think the GVA-LCY was cancelled, but had they told me earlier they could have put me on MUC-LCY.

As I read this, he didn't refuse the MUC-LCY flight but wasn't offered one. They probably informed him about the cancellation after the last MUC-LCY flight of the day had departed and so rerouted him to LHR, which is what the thread starter critizises. He would certainly have accepted a MUC-LCY rerouting!

I think they should either refund him the fare difference between LHR and LCY at time of the booking or refund him the cost of transfer from LHR to LCY, as he chose to fly to LCY as it is much more convenient for him to get home.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3799 times:



Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 11):
As I read this, he didn't refuse the MUC-LCY flight but wasn't offered one. They probably informed him about the cancellation after the last MUC-LCY flight of the day had departed and so rerouted him to LHR, which is what the thread starter critizises. He would certainly have accepted a MUC-LCY rerouting!

I think they should either refund him the fare difference between LHR and LCY at time of the booking or refund him the cost of transfer from LHR to LCY, as he chose to fly to LCY as it is much more convenient for him to get home.

Exactly. The main problem is the fact they charge a premium to fly to LCY over LHR when i booked but didn't even offer to pay for a cab to get me back to LCY, which is just unfair when they happily charge you more in the first place.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3790 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 12):
Exactly. The main problem is the fact they charge a premium to fly to LCY over LHR when i booked but didn't even offer to pay for a cab to get me back to LCY, which is just unfair when they happily charge you more in the first place.

You'll find that there is no premium as such in the fare charged by LX between LCY and LHR. The premium comes from greater airport taxes in LCY than LHR. That point becomes moot when you are an incoming passenger, where there are no taxes charged (thus LHR and LCY are the same). The fact that LCY and LHR are co-terminals means that in legal terms they got you to where the contract stated (the fare rules will state LON and not LCY or LHR).


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3739 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 13):
You'll find that there is no premium as such in the fare charged by LX between LCY and LHR. The premium comes from greater airport taxes in LCY than LHR. That point becomes moot when you are an incoming passenger, where there are no taxes charged (thus LHR and LCY are the same). The fact that LCY and LHR are co-terminals means that in legal terms they got you to where the contract stated (the fare rules will state LON and not LCY or LHR).

While you are correct, this would also mean of ourse that legally LX has to refund the difference because the higher fares were not paid by the airline at LCY. They cannot simply pocket that money because money other than the fare is (should be...) money held in eschew for passing on to the airport, authorities, the taxman etc.


User currently offlineFRALIM From Germany, joined Jun 2003, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Hi,

Your GVA-LCY flight LX440 is uually operated by the a/c that does the earlier GVA-LCY-GVA rotation, LX446/LX447. I had a look at flightstats.com and it shows that LX446 diverted yesterday afternoon (presumably to STN) with the return LX447 cancelled. IIRC the crew arriving on LX446 nightstops in LCY with LX447 being picked up by a new crew in LCY. Because of that the diversion of LX446 would have caused a bigger problem as the a/c could not immediately return to GVA, which subsequently led to the cancellation of your flight LX440 (LCY closes at 10pm. With an STD of 9.35 of LX440, there is not much wiggle room).

According to flightstats LX446 landed at 5pm (I assume in STN), which is 6pm MUC time. After looking at the situation the decision to canx LX447 and LX440 must have been made rather quickly, as LH in MUC was able to inform you before your 7pm departure to GVA. As I see it the moment you were informed was the earliest they knew about it. LH's last flight MUC-LCY leaves at 18.05, so I would say it was obviously impossible to get you on that flight. Looking at LH's online timetable their last flight to LHR leaves at 19.10 (is that the one you took?), so I assume things were quite rushed in MUC to get you on that flight and make sure you wouldn't be stranded in either GVA or MUC.

I was going to say that you should have made sure in MUC that some sort of transport was organised for you in LHR. But looking at the short time frame I understand that there wasn't much time to discuss anything.

It would be interesting to know what happened to the local pax in GVA. Some will have gone on the earlier LCY flight, but surely not all pax would have been at the airport that early. The remaining pax would have either been rebooked on next day's flight or on the last BA departure to LHR . If rebooked on BA I would expect that some sort of transportation would have been organsied for those pax. Your flight from MUC arrived in LHR at 8.30pm (correct?), while the BA flight ex GVA arrived at 10pm. All of this is hypothetical, but at the time you talked to LX at LCY they may have not yet been aware of the whole situation and that more LX pax from GVA would be arriving on a later BA flight requiring transportation to LCY.

I am not trying to excuse things. This is just an attempt to explain what (may have) happened. Even if they may not legally be obliged to provide transportation (London is London), I believe that they should have and it would be best to contact LX customer Services about that. In case you decide to do that, here a few points you may want to consider:

- As mentioned by someone else before there is usually no difference in fare between LCY and LHR. I regularly fly LH on LCY-FRA and pay ca. 100GBP. The fare ex LHR is the same. I assume the same applies to MUC flights. So I don't think there is any difference in fare you could claim back.

- Did you go by tube or taxi in the end? If you took a taxi, send in he receipt and claim the money back (probably your best chance to get some sort of compensation). If you took the tube, there is probably not too much to claim.

- If you ask for compensation, you should enquire what happened to the local pax. Ask if they went on the BA flight and whether they received transportation to LCY. Point out that if you hadn't taken the LH flight LX would have potentially been forced to provide hotel acomodation in MUC or GVA (so they saved on that).

- Maybe say that this was essentially a "diversion" for you. Those poor pax who diverted to STN earlier that day will have received a coach to LCY, so you should have as well.

- Another example: when LX canx a BSL flight from XXX pax are often reooked to ZRH and receive a voucher for the train to BSL. While BSL-ZRH and LCY-LHR may not be the same distance, it takes about just as long to get from one to the other.

As mentioned before I don't know whether you are legally entitled to anything. Had they provided transportation I would say that you should not receive any compensation. But as they failed to provide transportation, the situation may now be a bit different.

Another thing that comes to mind is that with your ticket you paid taxes/charges for MUC and GVA. Taking the direct flight to LHR, LX saved your GVA charges. In theory you should be able to claim those back, as you would with an unused ticket.

Sorry for getting a bit carried away. I hope your experience didn't put you off flying LX/LH.

Cheers,
Chris


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3570 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
While you are correct, this would also mean of ourse that legally LX has to refund the difference because the higher fares were not paid by the airline at LCY. They cannot simply pocket that money because money other than the fare is (should be...) money held in eschew for passing on to the airport, authorities, the taxman etc.

There is no higher fare difference. Read my post. The OP was flying INTO LCY therefore was not subject to any taxes on that side. He presumably already departed FROM LCY and paid the taxes there. The only differences the OP will have in terms of fare will be: -fuel supplement for the additional sector and -in transit airport tax in Geneva. Whether or not LX refunds these is really up to them. Legally it would be a hard case to crack and in the end the OP did get the service which he paid for: a ticket from Munich to London.


User currently onlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 3522 times:

My wife and I flew Swiss on our honeymoon. On our return (a few days after the London subway bombings), we showed up at the airport in VIE and were told that we had be switched to an AA flight with a layover in LHR. I was furious as I avoid LHR like the plague and had paid substantially more to fly Swiss (connecting in ZRH) than I would have had to pay to fly AA (with its drastically inferior service). Additionally, my wife was rather upset (reasonably or not) to be spending time in LHR given the very recent bombings. I tried my best to get the person at the airport to help us but got nothing but rudeness (I believe it was not an LX employee) in return. To make matters worse, on our flight we were put in the very back row, middle seats.

I wrote a letter to Swiss explaining the situation and my disappointment and they sent us checks compensating us for denied boarding ($200 each?) along with an apology.

Based on that, I'd recommend writing a letter.


User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3439 times:



Quoting FRALIM (Reply 15):
Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for that. It was very interesting and i fully understand. I'll write a letter and we will see what happens.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Basically when buying a ticket you have a contract with the airline. This contract says your rights and your responsibilities.

So you and the airline agree to transport you to a certain place. The responsibility from you is to behave etc etc and the one of the airline is to fly you or transport you to your final destination. So in my eyes when they send you to LHR iso LCY you should get the taxi, train ticket etc paid by the airline as they did not transport to the intended airport.

See the other way around it is the same. When you want to change your destination you will have to pay extra as well.  Smile


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3395 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 16):
There is no higher fare difference. Read my post. The OP was flying INTO LCY therefore was not subject to any taxes on that side.



Well, I am paying some strange "arrival fees" every once in a while on some airlines. Apparently some airports charge for arriving pax or those airlines pass on aircraft related landing fees to the passengers by breaking some part of it down. Not sure if LX has jumped on that bandwaggon. Probably not, so you are correct.

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 16):
He presumably already departed FROM LCY and paid the taxes there. The only differences the OP will have in terms of fare will be: -fuel supplement for the additional sector and -in transit airport tax in Geneva. Whether or not LX refunds these is really up to them. Legally it would be a hard case to crack and in the end the OP did get the service which he paid for: a ticket from Munich to London.

From a legal point, you are able to claim back taxes and fees that are unused. Either for unjust enrichment or as damages for minsinformation (as a result of improperly labelling somethings as a "fee" or a "tax" whereas it is just an element of the fare).

Whether it is worth the hassle, is another question. I usually do not waste any time with it. Only recently I was so annoyed by one specific airline that has been treating pax like idiots when it comes to taxes and fees that I sent them a rather formal letter with a lot of legalese in it. Guess what, they refunded the whole price of a couple of unused tickets within days because apparently they did not want to risk that the matter was getting contentious.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Something make no sense:

Quoting SeansasLCY (Thread starter):
When i went to board the MUC-GVA flight the stewardess told me i had been transferred to the direct LHR flight.

Didn't you question it when you got to the gate and the signs said the flight was going to LHR not GVA?

Where was the gate agent?

How did you get on a LHR flight with a GVA ticket?

How would the stewardess know your final destination was LCY?

How would a stewardess know LCY was anywhere near LHR?

What did all the other people that were traveling MUC-GVA do?


User currently offlineSeansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3317 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Didn't you question it when you got to the gate and the signs said the flight was going to LHR not GVA?

Where was the gate agent?

How did you get on a LHR flight with a GVA ticket?

How would the stewardess know your final destination was LCY?

How would a stewardess know LCY was anywhere near LHR?

What did all the other people that were traveling MUC-GVA do?

The LHR flight left from gate G46 while GVA left from G47.
The other people travelling MUC-GVA boarded as usual, it was just when i handed my ticket to the lady she said please go to the other gate, we have a telex for you. The lady at the LHR desk then said i had been transfered and said please board the plane and sort out any problems with swiss ground staff at LHR.


User currently offlineZiggyStardust From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3300 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):

Didn't you question it when you got to the gate and the signs said the flight was going to LHR not GVA?

I think the agent directed him to another gate for the LHR flight.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25438 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

Are LCY and LHR co-terminals?

In the US the airline is legally clear as long as they deliver you to your intended city of destination which would be the case if both LHR and LCY are considered London co-terminals in the carrier tariffs.

While not the best customer service by dropping a passenger at another airport then their intended one, this is not the most unusual occurrence and has happened to me a few times in my travels in places like New York or Los Angeles which have multiple airports serving a metro area.

If it means being stuck, or getting on a flight to an alternate airport, I'll take the alternate airport anyday.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 474218 : Then why did he say: Words have meaning! A ticket agent is not a stewardess. If you would have said this this in the first place it would not have be
26 Leskova : I've had roughly the same happen to me a few months back: I was booked on FRA-LCY, but that got cancelled (while I was on the bus from the terminal to
27 Eghansen : That was my question too. For example, if you are booked to fly to LGA and they fly you to EWR, you are not entitled to compensation. The same thing
28 Post contains links Viscount724 : I expect they should at least reimburse you for your additional expenses to get from LHR to LCY (you should itemize those costs in your letter and in
29 Leskova : The rules are valid for any EU carrier, as well as any non-EU carrier operating to or from the EU. As both his flights were either from (MUC-GVA) or
30 Ckfred : It's not unusual for an airline to rebook passegners onto other flights before they check in, or even after check in. My wife and I were flying AA fro
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