Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Skyone: Bari-NYC/MIA?  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

I personally put this in the "never going to happen" pile, but apparently Skyone, who currently only operates an all-business class 727, is planning to start flights from Bari to New York and Miami, catering to wealthy tourists, using a 767 or 777.

http://www.guidaviaggi.it/detail.lasso?id=98721

This is obviously never going to get off the ground, but who on earth is Skyone?


a.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEICVD From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Could you be confusing Skyone with AirOne? An Italian airline who recently acquired 2(?) A330s previously operated by EY.


Dublin, where Sam Maguire will be coming home to in mid September
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1660 times:



Quoting EICVD (Reply 1):
Could you be confusing Skyone with AirOne? An Italian airline who recently acquired 2(?) A330s previously operated by EY.

No, Skyone does indeed exist and operates an all-business class 727.



a.
User currently offlineEICVD From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1590 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
No, Skyone does indeed exist and operates an all-business class 727.

Yes I have heard of them but I think you maybe confusing them with AirOne who have stated recently the will fly to the US from Italy.
www.flyairone.it/us/

[Edited 2008-08-20 13:23:00]


Dublin, where Sam Maguire will be coming home to in mid September
User currently onlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 1543 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
I personally put this in the "never going to happen" pile

Me too. Bari is way too small a city for TATL flights, even from New York.

Quoting EICVD (Reply 3):
Yes I have heard of them but I think you maybe confusing them with AirOne who have stated recently the will fly to the US from Italy.

No, he knows his airlines pretty well. Air One, if they were to start New York and Miami, would fly there from MXP, and maybe FCO. If (and that has a snowball's chance in hell) they were to fly to JFK and MIA from other Italian cities, they'd fly from cities like Pisa, Florence, Venice, Verona, Naples, Palermo, and Catania (not necessarily in that order) before going to Bari.

Skyone could start TATL flights, but I doubt it would be from Bari.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 1545 times:



Quoting EICVD (Reply 3):
Yes I have heard of them but I think you maybe confusing them with AirOne who have stated recently the will fly to the US from Italy.

I provided an article link which refers to Skyone. No confusion with Airone in this case, unless the article writers are confused.

AirOne has already began flying from Italy to Boston and Chicago with poor results; though they are looking at flying to Miami and New York, as well as Toronto and Dulles.



a.
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2358 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 1507 times:

This to me more sounds like a couple of one-off charters which would obviously make some sense.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 1480 times:

It's Skyone, not Air One (AP).

They could be charter flights, but it's only a rumour.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2153 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 1461 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
AirOne has already began flying from Italy to Boston and Chicago with poor results; though they are looking at flying to Miami and New York, as well as Toronto and Dulles.

Is there any airline which doesn't look at flying to Miami?


User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 1431 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
AirOne has already began flying from Italy to Boston and Chicago with poor results

I repeat: this is only an your opinion.

I could give you some load-factors, published on an Italian forum, for the MXP-ORD route:
28 JUL 8/22 212/257
28 JUL 9/22 191/257
31 JUL 5/55 193/257
01 AUG 4/22 214/257
03 AUG 14/22 204/257
04 AUG 2/22 187/257
05 AUG 4/22 209/257
07 AUG 11/22 178/257
08 AUG 4/22 170/257

And the route has been opened in July, only one month ago.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 1418 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 9):
I could give you some load-factors, published on an Italian forum, for the MXP-ORD route:
28 JUL 8/22 212/257
28 JUL 9/22 191/257
31 JUL 5/55 193/257
01 AUG 4/22 214/257
03 AUG 14/22 204/257
04 AUG 2/22 187/257
05 AUG 4/22 209/257
07 AUG 11/22 178/257
08 AUG 4/22 170/257

I'm going to agree with Mark here.

Load factors of 66%-83% during the summer are pitiful for a transatlantic flight. They should be consistently in the high 80's to low 90's.

And premium cabin loads of 18%-64%? Absolutely awful.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 1404 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
I'm going to agree with Mark here.

Load factors of 66%-83% during the summer are pitiful for a transatlantic flight. They should be consistently in the high 80's to low 90's.

And premium cabin loads of 18%-64%? Absolutely awful.

You would be right if AP had operated this routes since years, but I have to remember that the route has been opened one month ago, with a small press campaign and that AP has never done long-haul service; the flight hasn't many connections from the Italian side, because actually AP doesn't have a lot of national flights from MXP.

They have already scheduled to reach the break-even point with an average LF of 70-75% and that they will be in loss for the BOS and ORD routes for about one year.

There's also a codeshare with LH for the cargo and LH has signed an agreement with AP to manage the cargo of these flights.

I repeat: you're right when you say that these load-factors, during the summer season, are low, but AP has already considered a loss for the first year.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 1399 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
AirOne has already began flying from Italy to Boston and Chicago with poor results;

I don't understand why the decided to fly out of Malpensa instead of Rome. Most American tourists seem to want to travel to Rome and that is also where all the cruise ships leave from.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 8):

Is there any airline which doesn't look at flying to Miami?

Almost all airlines don't look at flying to Miami. AirOne, is, however, one of the few airlines that is:

http://clearhorizons.wordpress.com/category/air-one/

Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 9):

I repeat: this is only an your opinion.

I might be "my opinion," but you supported it with the load factors you provided, which are horrendous. While the short time window hurt load factors, AirOne's fares are super cheap, and they should be filling those planes much more than they are. And the business class load factors are even more pathetic. Though it now makes sense why they didn't choose to go for a better business class product.

[Edited 2008-08-20 16:18:58]


a.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

Reminder load factors translate to nothing in this industry other than a lot of people on the plane.

The question is at what cost?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 1352 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 11):
There's also a codeshare

There are pax codeshares, too, with UA and US.

From ORD, pax can get to ATL, BOS, BWI, DEN, DFW, EWR, LAS, LAX, MCI, MCO, MSP, OMA, PDX, PHL, PHX, PIT, SAN, SEA, SFO, SMF, TPA.

From BOS, pax can get to AUG, BUF, CLT, DCA, DEN, IND, LGA, PHL, PIT, RIC, ROC, SFO, SYR.

These (generally somewhat lower-yielding) connecting pax just make the O&D load factors look even worse.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 1299 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 12):
I don't understand why the decided to fly out of Malpensa instead of Rome. Most American tourists seem to want to travel to Rome and that is also where all the cruise ships leave from.

Because during the year (not summer), the business market and the cargo is from Milan, not from Rome. An airline doesn't make money with tourists.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
I might be "my opinion," but you supported it with the load factors you provided, which are horrendous. While the short time window hurt load factors, AirOne's fares are super cheap, and they should be filling those planes much more than they are. And the business class load factors are even more pathetic. Though it now makes sense why they didn't choose to go for a better business class product.

My English could not be perfect, but I've already written that the route has been opened a month ago - it's not hard to understand, and during the summer, do you think there are lots of people flying from and to Milan?

Quoting A330323X (Reply 15):
There are pax codeshares, too, with UA and US.

From ORD, pax can get to ATL, BOS, BWI, DEN, DFW, EWR, LAS, LAX, MCI, MCO, MSP, OMA, PDX, PHL, PHX, PIT, SAN, SEA, SFO, SMF, TPA.

From BOS, pax can get to AUG, BUF, CLT, DCA, DEN, IND, LGA, PHL, PIT, RIC, ROC, SFO, SYR.

These (generally somewhat lower-yielding) connecting pax just make the O&D load factors look even worse.

You're right for those codeshares, but I repeat: during the summer, who goes to Milan?

Another question: why does the plan of Intesa-SanPaolo for the "new AZ" want to bring back the long-haul routes to MXP, instead of FCO? Because it's true that during the summer tourists go to Rome, but from September to May the demand is in Milan.

I already know that maybe you'll answer "to make happy politicians", but a bank doesn't want to waste money...


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 1289 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 16):

My English could not be perfect, but I've already written that the route has been opened a month ago - it's not hard to understand, and during the summer, do you think there are lots of people flying from and to Milan?

Your English is fine. I understand perfeclty what you are saying, and I entirely disagree with you. We'll agree to disagree.

Plenty of people fly to/from Milan during the summer - I fly there almost every July.



a.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 1280 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 16):
Because it's true that during the summer tourists go to Rome, but from September to May the demand is in Milan.

Then how come an airline like US flies daily year-round A330-300Xs to FCO, but uses smaller B767-200ERs to MXP, daily during the summer and 5x weekly during the winter, exactly the opposite of what you claim the seasonality to be?

Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 16):
My English could not be perfect, but I've already written that the route has been opened a month ago

Your English is very good. I just have to agree with Mark on this one, especially after I saw those load factors you provided. The coach load factors I might even grant you will improve a bit over time, but those business load factors were just awful, and since business travellers tend to book nearer the departure date, it shouldn't have mattered that much that the route has only been on sale for a short while.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 1280 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Your English is fine. I understand perfeclty what you are saying, and I entirely disagree with you. We'll agree to disagree.

Plenty of people fly to/from Milan during the summer - I fly there almost every July.

I think that between Rome and Milan, during the summer most people want to go to Rome, because it's a destination for tourists, while, during the "working year", people goes from and to Milan - especially business travellers and the cargo.

I agree that we disagree  Wink but I won't write anything else about AP's new routes because we are off-topic.

Coming back to Skyone and their flights to Bari, I've heard that they could operate a flight for American tourists coming to Bari and the Region could promote the area, but in my opinion it's only a dream of some local politicians.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 1267 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 19):
because it's a destination for tourists, while, during the "working year", people goes from and to Milan - especially business travellers and the cargo.

Yes, that is true. Though during the summer Northern Italians are coming to the United States and Americans (such as myself) with family in northern Italy are flying to Milan.

Milan is a larger market during the summer, though Rome is indeed the larger summer market.



a.
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 1267 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 18):
Then how come an airline like US flies daily year-round A330-300Xs to FCO, but uses smaller B767-200ERs to MXP, daily during the summer and 5x weekly during the winter, exactly the opposite of what you claim the seasonality to be?

I can answer only with this picture:

Big version: Width: 762 Height: 528 File size: 46kb


As you can see, according to LH the catchment area of MXP is bigger than the FCO's one.

I don't know the network of US, but I can say that during the summer there are many Italians that from MXP want to go to the Caribbeans islands or to central or south-America, so Philadelphia can be a good hub for these people, while during the winter not many tourists go there, but this is only a my idea.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 18):
Your English is very good. I just have to agree with Mark on this one, especially after I saw those load factors you provided. The coach load factors I might even grant you will improve a bit over time, but those business load factors were just awful, and since business travellers tend to book nearer the departure date, it shouldn't have mattered that much that the route has only been on sale for a short while.

The business class LFs are not so good because it's a very old product, it could work only for a charter carrier, but they should change the seats during the next months.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 1161 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
I personally put this in the "never going to happen" pile

Me too. Bari is way too small a city for TATL flights, even from New York.

Bari currently has JFK flights with Eurofly

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 12):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
AirOne has already began flying from Italy to Boston and Chicago with poor results;

I don't understand why the decided to fly out of Malpensa instead of Rome. Most American tourists seem to want to travel to Rome and that is also where all the cruise ships leave from.

I think MXP was picked to try and fill a void left by AZ de-hubbing MXP. However it seems Air One are not the best airline to fill the void (if the void even needs filling), especially with only limited feed at MXP compared to what AZ had.



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 1154 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 22):
Bari currently has JFK flights with Eurofly

Yes, but it's a Bari-Bologna-JFK flight, the A330 leaves from Bari almost empty, it arrives in Bologna, loads the passengers and leaves for NY.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Conviasa Plans MIA, NYC Service posted Sun Mar 5 2006 01:01:11 by MAH4546
Aerogal Looks At Ecuador-MIA/NYC Services posted Fri Dec 2 2005 21:14:35 by MAH4546
LY: MIA-TLV Makes "unscheduled" Stop In NYC posted Thu Jun 16 2005 04:45:23 by MAH4546
MIA-NYC - Which Carriers? posted Fri Apr 16 2004 17:30:29 by Txiki1uk
Alaska Airlines Starts Service To NYC And Mia! posted Tue Aug 27 2002 05:21:48 by Alaskaairlines
Aerolineas Drops MIA/NYC/LAX/AKL/SYD/SAO/RIO posted Thu Jun 7 2001 03:19:58 by Arg
Can Anyone Say C.F. Again For The NYC Area Again? posted Sat Aug 2 2008 08:33:59 by Jumbojet
TAM Confirms GIG-MIA Service And Upgrades MAO-MIA posted Thu Jul 31 2008 15:19:35 by AF086
Number Of Crew In NYC At One Time posted Tue Jul 29 2008 19:04:43 by TwoLz2Rn
Israir To Cancel TLV - NYC posted Fri Jul 25 2008 03:22:17 by Amirs