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AA Introducing New 777 Business Flagship Service  
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12415 times:

Hey everyone,

I just received an email from AA advertising the new Flagship Business Class seat on their 777s.

It's an interactive presentation that shows the seat in all its positions. It looks pretty cool, albeit a bit tight IMHO.

Has anyone tried it yet? I'm very curious, as I've several miles to use  Smile

Here is the link

http://www.theflagshipexperience.com/default_en.html

I hope you like it!

Cheers


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12386 times:

It appears to be like the LH business class seat.. with a few modifications unique to AA. The problem is that it not a true FLAT seat. It is a sloped seat, which most carriers have in their J classes...but the newer J products are coming out with 180 degree flat seats...so this seems to be nothing new.

Also, why did AA not go with a modified version of the seats being installed on the 767-300 fleet?

To me, to stay competitive with UA, they have to put in a 180 degree flat seat in their 777 fleet...UA will be ahead of AA in this regard.

Doesn't seem like typical AA thinking.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12358 times:

The 777 seat is already in service, I thought. It seems more like a modification of the 767 seat than it is a modification of the LH seat.


This is my signature.
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3290 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12294 times:



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 1):

Are you aware that this seat has already been implemented, fleet-wide on the 777? The seat is very comfortable, see my TR if you want details on a short flight from ORD-DFW, but it is difficult to get in and out of if your seatmate is reclined or flat. There is no slide, at least that I've noticed in two trips with it, and it serves its purpose.

AA could have invested in a 180 degree lie-flat J class, but elected against it in favor of these seats for one main reason:

If AA had decided to go with the lie-flat seat, they would've been forced to take out a number of J seats to accommodate the larger, lie-flat seats. With these seats, nothing had to be removed. In fact, there are now 37 J seats, as opposed to 35 previously, at least on the 777. I'm assuming AA weighed the options, and decided that this would provide the best compromise between quality and quantity. It's incredibly easy to sleep in (IMO), but affords two more upgrade opportunities as compared to the previous seat/layout.

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 1):
Also, why did AA not go with a modified version of the seats being installed on the 767-300 fleet?

Having tried the new seat on both planes, I can tell you that even if it isn't actually any bigger, the amount of space feels light years bigger on the 777, simply because the cabin is so much larger.

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 1):
To me, to stay competitive with UA, they have to put in a 180 degree flat seat in their 777 fleet...UA will be ahead of AA in this regard.

Product-wise, yes, UA will have a "better" J seat. But on the same token, it will be easier for AAdvantage elites to get the new AA seat, than it will be for Mileage Plus Elites to get the new UA seat. Seems like a pretty even trade-off, if you ask me. Certainly if I had my choice of either, based on nothing more than the seat, I'd rather have the new UA seat. But at the same time, I know my chances of sitting in either J seat are better on AA.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32737 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12267 times:

I fly it often on MIA-LAX.

A comfortable product, but already outdated.



a.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12075 times:



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 1):
To me, to stay competitive with UA, they have to put in a 180 degree flat seat in their 777 fleet...UA will be ahead of AA in this regard.



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3):

If AA had decided to go with the lie-flat seat, they would've been forced to take out a number of J seats to accommodate the larger, lie-flat seats. With these seats, nothing had to be removed. In fact, there are now 37 J seats, as opposed to 35 previously, at least on the 777. I'm assuming AA weighed the options, and decided that this would provide the best compromise between quality and quantity. It's incredibly easy to sleep in (IMO), but affords two more upgrade opportunities as compared to the previous seat/layout.

Longhornmaniac is correct, although I think it was even more seats than that.

From what I understand, AA had developed a biz class product with a true, 180-degree lie-flat seat. However, in order to fit the lie-flat seats in the cabin, AA would have been forced to remove an entire row of seats (maybe two). That would have eliminated the revenue from 7 (or maybe even 14) biz class seats on each flight.

Looking at typical trans-atlantic and trans-pacific fares, eliminating those seats would cost AA at least $50,000 in revenue per flight. I believe Arpey himself was instrumental in the decision not to go with the lie-flat seats, because he knew that AA would not be able to charge the premium to make up for that amount of lost revenue.

While I have not flown in AA's new biz class seats, I have flown in the EK biz class seats that has similar recline. While I'm sure that AA's seats aren't as nice as EK's, I will say that I don't mind the fact that the seat isn't fully flat -- I've been able to sleep without any problem with the seat at 170 or 175 degrees.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11987 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 5):
From what I understand, AA had developed a biz class product with a true, 180-degree lie-flat seat. However, in order to fit the lie-flat seats in the cabin, AA would have been forced to remove an entire row of seats (maybe two). That would have eliminated the revenue from 7 (or maybe even 14) biz class seats on each flight.

Looking at typical trans-atlantic and trans-pacific fares, eliminating those seats would cost AA at least $50,000 in revenue per flight. I believe Arpey himself was instrumental in the decision not to go with the lie-flat seats, because he knew that AA would not be able to charge the premium to make up for that amount of lost revenue.

It's not like everyone in AA J class is purchasing their J class seat - you'll find that often the majority of seats are occupied by AAdvantage upgrades or mileage redemption customers. I think they could have gone with flat-beds, as opposed to flat-seats and not risked any loss of revenue.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11915 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 6):
It's not like everyone in AA J class is purchasing their J class seat - you'll find that often the majority of seats are occupied by AAdvantage upgrades or mileage redemption customers. I think they could have gone with flat-beds, as opposed to flat-seats and not risked any loss of revenue.

I must respectfully disagree. If it were a 2 or 3-seat loss, not that big of a deal. But if you've tried to get upgraded or redeem miles on AA's heavier-utilized business routes (like DFW-LHR, for example), you'll see that it's very hard to get them (it also costs a pretty penny in terms of mileage and copayments to get upgraded on AA's trans-oceanic flights, and you can't redeem electronic upgrade "stickers" on those flights, either). AA has had success in filling their premium cabins on these routes (which is a main reason why they've maintained their 777s as 3-class), so overall I think it's a good move.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5776 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11858 times:



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 1):
To me, to stay competitive with UA, they have to put in a 180 degree flat seat in their 777 fleet...UA will be ahead of AA in this regard.

Um, all AA really has to do to be ahead of United today is to continue serving business-class meals to business-class passengers, rather than simply handing out BOB offerings from coach for free.

A seat is certainly important, but so is NOT receiving food out in a paper box.


User currently offlineAirlineaddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11652 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Um, all AA really has to do to be ahead of United today is to continue serving business-class meals to business-class passengers, rather than simply handing out BOB offerings from coach for free.

A seat is certainly important, but so is NOT receiving food out in a paper box.

I guess CO will be ahead of both by offering lie-flat and food on plates.


User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11067 times:



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3):
Product-wise, yes, UA will have a "better" J seat. But on the same token, it will be easier for AAdvantage elites to get the new AA seat, than it will be for Mileage Plus Elites to get the new UA seat. Seems like a pretty even trade-off, if you ask me. Certainly if I had my choice of either, based on nothing more than the seat, I'd rather have the new UA seat. But at the same time, I know my chances of sitting in either J seat are better on AA.

It's a two sided coin and to each his own. Some will say its important to continually improve your product and offer a true lie flat seat and others will say its more important to have more seats and less comfort but have the opportunity for eliters to upgrade.

Quoting Airlineaddict (Reply 9):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Um, all AA really has to do to be ahead of United today is to continue serving business-class meals to business-class passengers, rather than simply handing out BOB offerings from coach for free.

A seat is certainly important, but so is NOT receiving food out in a paper box.

I guess CO will be ahead of both by offering lie-flat and food on plates.

As will Delta

Quoting Ssides (Reply 5):
From what I understand, AA had developed a biz class product with a true, 180-degree lie-flat seat. However, in order to fit the lie-flat seats in the cabin, AA would have been forced to remove an entire row of seats (maybe two). That would have eliminated the revenue from 7 (or maybe even 14) biz class seats on each flight.

Looking at typical trans-atlantic and trans-pacific fares, eliminating those seats would cost AA at least $50,000 in revenue per flight. I believe Arpey himself was instrumental in the decision not to go with the lie-flat seats, because he knew that AA would not be able to charge the premium to make up for that amount of lost revenue.

DL has seemed to figure out a way to add a true lie flat seat in J in not only there T7's but eventually on there entire international widebody fleet (with the exception of the transatlantic 752's). DL has also needed to eliminate some biz seats but DL management seemed to find a middle ground between lost revenue, improving there product and staying ahead of the pack.


User currently offlineTriple7man From Thailand, joined May 2005, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11018 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have not flown in the new business class seats on AA, but we have them on all of our 767-300 fleet and all 777's except 1 have them.
I found the previous business class seats very comfortable from my experience, but I remember when I worked at AA our premium members were telling me that until we get new lie flats seats we are not going to be competitive with the other airlines like BA.
Generally business class is very full on our international flights, and our big money maker is the JFK-LHR market.
I have read all the pro's and con's written, but in the end, I think it was a good move on AA's part to install them. I'd like to try it on an international flight sometime and see how it compares with the first class flagship suite,



Have you kissed a 777 today?
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10945 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Um, all AA really has to do to be ahead of United today is to continue serving business-class meals to business-class passengers, rather than simply handing out BOB offerings from coach for free.

Yawn! As most informed people will know, UA are not planning at all to change meal offerings in F & J on any international route. They are planning on offering BOB on IAD-Europe flight in Y and Y only. Fact.

As for the seats, I hate to tell you this but UA's new J seat is light years ahead of AA's current offering.


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10825 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 6):
It's not like everyone in AA J class is purchasing their J class seat - you'll find that often the majority of seats are occupied by AAdvantage upgrades or mileage redemption customers.

It depends on the market. My corporate clients usually end up buying full J class seats particularly to London as upgrades are usually next to impossible. Just because there are 30 seats in a J cabin only a certain number are available for free/upgraded tickets. Some airlines would rather fly those seats empty instead of filling them in order to preserve the value and integrity of the product so people will pay for them. AA and most of the rest of the airlines are making Y to J upgrades more and more difficult to clear dependant on the actual market flown. This is particularly true of NRT and LHR.


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10755 times:

The seats looks very nice!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineTriple7man From Thailand, joined May 2005, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10379 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting ORDagent (Reply 13):
It depends on the market. My corporate clients usually end up buying full J class seats particularly to London as upgrades are usually next to impossible. Just because there are 30 seats in a J cabin only a certain number are available for free/upgraded tickets. Some airlines would rather fly those seats empty instead of filling them in order to preserve the value and integrity of the product so people will pay for them. AA and most of the rest of the airlines are making Y to J upgrades more and more difficult to clear dependant on the actual market flown. This is particularly true of NRT and LHR.

Then they would use EVIP (electronic VIP) upgrades to first class. Many times a premium member would be waitlisted for an upgrade and it often did not clear until the day of the flight. Usually on NRT and LHR flights, business class is very full. First class is often full too in the summer.

And in the summer months, when the flights are oversold, you might find yourself in business class, compliments of AA.



Have you kissed a 777 today?
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9880 times:



Quoting Triple7man (Reply 11):
I have not flown in the new business class seats on AA, but we have them on all of our 767-300 fleet and all 777's except 1 have them.
I found the previous business class seats very comfortable from my experience, but I remember when I worked at AA our premium members were telling me that until we get new lie flats seats we are not going to be competitive with the other airlines like BA.
Generally business class is very full on our international flights, and our big money maker is the JFK-LHR market.
I have read all the pro's and con's written, but in the end, I think it was a good move on AA's part to install them. I'd like to try it on an international flight sometime and see how it compares with the first class flagship suite,

I felw on the new seats earlier this summer on a ORD-FRA run and found them pretty comfortable. I have flown J on several other international airlines like LH, SAS, BA, etc., and I have flown the old AA j class copious times. This was just my first experience on the new J. It was fine, and I wouldn't sacrifice the value of earning the advantage miles just to fly CO, DL, or UA. The food is always good in AA J and the service typically acceptable.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9649 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 12):
Yawn! As most informed people will know, UA are not planning at all to change meal offerings in F & J on any international route. They are planning on offering BOB on IAD-Europe flight in Y and Y only. Fact.

I think you missed his point. From his experience, he was saying that he has been given the BOB food for FREE in J, and did not pay for it. The quality of a BOB product is a huge difference from what even coach food was 10 years ago, and is no way acceptable for a J class service.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17450 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9592 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 6):
It's not like everyone in AA J class is purchasing their J class seat - you'll find that often the majority of seats are occupied by AAdvantage upgrades or mileage redemption customers.

Domestically, yes, but internationally, they're probably mostly purchased.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineProfcalvin From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8778 times:

My dad recently flew NRT-DFW on AA J-class and said it was not worth his money.
First of all he complained about the seat not going flat and that it wasn't that comfrotable.
Second of all, he said the service was horrible. (he was in Japan for the last couple months and the Japanese have wonderful service so he may have had too high expectations)
Third of all, he said the food was horrible.

Just my Dad's opinion so please don't judge me on it.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8759 times:
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Hasn't this video been out for a while?

I wish AA had picked a different pattern for these seats. They are not attractive looking in my eyes.


User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8357 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Domestically, yes, but internationally, they're probably mostly purchased.

That's a very good point. Most consultants and executives (and hell many companies even for mid-level management) have clauses written into contracts that over a certain length flight the company is required to purchase a business class seat.


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7947 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 7):
I must respectfully disagree. If it were a 2 or 3-seat loss, not that big of a deal. But if you've tried to get upgraded or redeem miles on AA's heavier-utilized business routes (like DFW-LHR, for example), you'll see that it's very hard to get them (it also costs a pretty penny in terms of mileage and copayments to get upgraded on AA's trans-oceanic flights, and you can't redeem electronic upgrade "stickers" on those flights, either). AA has had success in filling their premium cabins on these routes (which is a main reason why they've maintained their 777s as 3-class), so overall I think it's a good move.

...and I will respectfully disagree with you. As a London-based Executive Platinum on AA, I never purchased J class, and always sat in that cabin, even on deeply disscounted tickets. Yes, I'm aware of the $350 co-pay and 25k miles required, but people would still rather stump that up than pay for a J class fare.

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 13):
It depends on the market. My corporate clients usually end up buying full J class seats particularly to London as upgrades are usually next to impossible. Just because there are 30 seats in a J cabin only a certain number are available for free/upgraded tickets. Some airlines would rather fly those seats empty instead of filling them in order to preserve the value and integrity of the product so people will pay for them. AA and most of the rest of the airlines are making Y to J upgrades more and more difficult to clear dependant on the actual market flown. This is particularly true of NRT and LHR.

Thats interesting. In 17 years of flying AA, i've never had a J-class upgrade to or from LHR/LGW not clear. Am I just lucky, perhaps?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Domestically, yes, but internationally, they're probably mostly purchased.

Apart from transcon, AA doesn't offer J class domestically anyway. If they're purchased, they are purchased on corporate deals and are heavily discounted.

I have nothing against AA, it's a nice carrier, with a reasonably decent international product. However, flat-beds are the way forward these days, not AA's new-but-outdated angled lie-flat product. They definitely missed an opportunity on this one, IMHO. FWIW, I was personally involved in testing the new seats back in 2005 in Dallas. Myself and several frequent flyers advised AA that they needed to be flat-beds, not angled lie-flat seats. They didn't listen.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4369 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7851 times:

There's no spinning the fact that AA is installing a behind-the-curve Business Class seat relative even to its USA-based legacy peers.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7832 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 22):
Thats interesting. In 17 years of flying AA, i've never had a J-class upgrade to or from LHR/LGW not clear. Am I just lucky, perhaps?

I think you are... in my experience those upgrades to and from London are very difficult to get, but then again, i'm just gold, not exec platinum  Wink



Sic 'em bears
25 ORDflier : Folks, although this post is about American's new seats, it is important to point out in reply to some of the posts about United's recent changes in B
26 Gulfstream650 : Nothing new to me about this seat.
27 TUSaadvantage : Ummm, this isn't new. I flew AA 71 from FRA to DFW on Tuesday and sat in one of these seats. Looks unimpressive in pictures, but better in real life.
28 44k : One must not forget that both CO & DL are 2 class carriers with only J, while AA does have a fully flat offering in the Flagship Suite. I have flown
29 Mikelive : If these are the seats I was in on AA153 from ORD to NRT back on 8/6, then I absolutely loved the seating. Then again, my company paid for the seating
30 IronDuke08 : Yup, at my company everyone, even the most junior staff person, is allowed "one class above coach" on international flights longer than 1.5hr. The tr
31 Triple7man : As one who flies in first class several times a year between Japan (NRT, KIX, NGO) and the US I always get wonderful service....98% of the time. I've
32 TylerDurden : And by not doing exactly that..has relegated itself to being an 'also ran' in the J-class market. An opportunity missed by an otherwise innovative ca
33 Plunaaircanada : A bit off-topic but I just love that website! The animations are awesome!
34 United1 : ORD Flyer is absolutely spot on...and for those who really want to know its a grand total of 20 flights a day that will be affected by this. As for t
35 VC10er : i haven't flown in the new AA J seat and look forward to it. AA has never been an airline that i respected in terms of service. UA, which naturally ha
36 Longhornmaniac : This is an interesting notion, because it can be looked at from different perspectives. On the one hand, I agree with you. Compared to other airlines
37 AA777223 : I was under the impression that CO didn't offer a lie flat, but an angled bed in bizfirst. I was also under the impression taht deltas bizelite was al
38 Avek00 : CO will be installing a lie-flat from next year in its 777, 757, and 787 aircraft. The entire DL/NW longhaul fleet will be receiving lie-flat seats o
39 United1 : [quote=Avek00,reply=38] Beat me to it....
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