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F9 Early Returns Downgraded  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

I know, times are tough. Yadda, yadda, yadda...True, it's not as bad as UA requiring you pay for food in Business Class, but for a little airline that needs frequent fliers it is not a great time to kick them in the nuts...

Frontier Airlines today announced changes to its EarlyReturns mileage program, including new mileage redemption levels and fee structures. The changes will be effective Sept. 15, 2008.

Starting Sept. 15, 2008, Frontier is adding a $25 non-refundable redemption fee per ticket on EarlyReturns award tickets. Award tickets purchased within 14 days of travel will be charged a $75 non-refundable expedite fee per ticket. Both fees are waived for EarlyReturns Summit members. The $75 expedite fee will also be waived for PLUS redemptions (Ascent & Summit elite members only) and all redemptions booked via Weekend Web Fares. Additionally, any award ticket changes or cancellations resulting in a redeposit of miles will be subject to a $75 change fee. This change fee is also waived for Summit members.

The mileage redemption level for a domestic roundtrip ticket will be increasing from 15,000 to 20,000 miles. All other mileage redemption levels will increase by 5,000 to 10,000 miles.


[Edited 2008-08-21 12:19:38]

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't F9 going beyond what the other carriers have done by upping the mileage redemption levels. I know they were low to begin with, but when you are in a dogfight like they are is that a good move?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4746 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
it's not as bad as UA requiring you pay for food in Business Class,

United is not requiring anyone to pay for food in Business Class ---- but in economy class only domestically, and now on Atlantic flights ex IAD.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3244 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4727 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 1):
isn't F9 going beyond what the other carriers have done by upping the mileage redemption levels

Well I can't speak for a lot of airlines, but I know a domestic round trip award ticket with AAdvantage is still 25,000 miles, so F9 is still at least under that. That is, if that is what you were asking.  Wink

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

Another fine example of why you should never let accountants that have zero customer service or operational experience make decisions.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4606 times:



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3):

Well I can't speak for a lot of airlines, but I know a domestic round trip award ticket with AAdvantage is still 25,000 miles, so F9 is still at least under that. That is, if that is what you were asking.

I think you are validating my comment. The other airlines have raised fees, not mileage award levels.


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4355 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4570 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
UA requiring you pay for food in Business Class,

 Confused



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4549 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
I think you are validating my comment. The other airlines have raised fees, not mileage award levels.

Nonetheless, even though other U.S. airlines have not increased miles required for a free "saver" coach award ticket for travel within the U.S., Frontier's increase to 20k miles is still a bargain compared to 25k required by all of the major U.S. airlines (afaik) with the exception of Alaska, which is also at 20k for the same award type if booked online when last I checked.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4538 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
The other airlines have raised fees, not mileage award levels.

You might want to check that. Alaska, say:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews articleid_2431107~title_Alaska-Airlines.html

"The domestic round-trip 'Coach Saver' award that has been available at 20,000 miles for over 13 years is increasing to 25,000 miles, whether redeemed online or through Reservations."

I am sorry to see you belittle the present US airline crisis as "yadda, yadda, yadda":

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
I know, times are tough. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

And I am sorry to see you repeating an a.net myth as fact:

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
True, it's not as bad as UA requiring you pay for food in Business Class,

Which simply isn't true, so there doesn't seem much more to say.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4502 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
I think you are validating my comment. The other airlines have raised fees, not mileage award levels.

This is incorrect. Alaska/Horizon will be increasing many of their award levels too. The coach saver award goes from 20,000 miles to 25,000 effective November 1st. You should also keep in mind that most of these "other" airlines you talk about had round-trip awards at 20,000 miles and raised theirs to 25,000 miles while Frontier did not at that time. The point is, these plans change all the time for each airline and while your focus seems to be on Frontier, the peripheral vision seems to be blind to the actions of other airlines whether historical or current.


User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1837 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4491 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
"The domestic round-trip 'Coach Saver' award that has been available at 20,000 miles for over 13 years is increasing to 25,000 miles, whether redeemed online or through Reservations."

You forgot to be fair and mention that Alaska is introducing a Super Saver award at 20,000 to replace the old Saver, so they will still have a 20,000 award level, and this actually becomes more flexible than other carriers with 3 redemption levels based on your travel needs.

Additionally, they are expanding the 10,000 mile Intra-Alaska award to include other states. Award travel completely within any of the states of WA, ID, OR and CA (if I remember correctly) can be booked at 10,000 roundtrip. Another reason why Alaska has the best rewards program among US airlines.


User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4440 times:



Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 10):
You forgot to be fair and mention that Alaska is introducing a Super Saver award at 20,000 to replace the old Saver, so they will still have a 20,000 award level, and this actually becomes more flexible than other carriers with 3 redemption levels based on your travel needs.

Again, this is incorrect. http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileageplan/changes.asp The Super Saver award is at 25,000 miles for a round-trip ticket. A new name and a new mileage requirement.


User currently offlineFrontierflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

I'm ok with the mileage increase, but the 25.00 charge to book, not to crazy about that. They also never charged to make a change in time or date, now 75.00. No charge to make a last minute booking, now 45.00 I think. Not good at all!

User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1837 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4382 times:



Quoting Stapleton (Reply 11):
Again, this is incorrect. http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileageplan/changes.asp The Super Saver award is at 25,000 miles for a round-trip ticket. A new name and a new mileage requirement.

My mistake, I remembered what I had seen incorrectly. The 10,000 intra-state award is still something nobody else offers though, and is much welcomed.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4114 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
The other airlines have raised fees, not mileage award levels.

DL and AA have both raised mileage award levels. Domestic hasn't changed (except for DL's new unrestricted, beyond SkyChoice category...) but international has.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 9):
This is incorrect. Alaska/Horizon will be increasing many of their award levels too.

OK, we have established that Alaska is also raising their award levels. Please provide a list of all the others raising the domestic award levels...since I said "airlines".

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
You might want to check that.

I guess I shouldn't have read this press release from ALPA...Did they change their minds or just poorly word their initial statement?

United Pilots Tell Tilton To Stop 'Nickel And Diming' Passengers

Thu, 21 Aug '08

In a statement issued Wednesday, the pilots say they "strongly oppose" the airline's plans to drastically change its onboard meal service by raising prices for food and drink on most flights and by discontinuing complimentary meal service on many flights to and from Europe, affecting both economy and business class passengers.


[Edited 2008-08-21 18:51:32]

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting Frontierflyer (Reply 12):
I'm ok with the mileage increase, but the 25.00 charge to book, not to crazy about that. They also never charged to make a change in time or date, now 75.00.

The basis upon which such fees can be justified in my mind is that the non-refundable fees help to ensure that pax are not making speculative award bookings that will not be used, thus preventing the potential for a the same seat(s) to generate ticket revenue. People's behavior tends to change rather markedly when monetary consequences to their behavior is involved, even when the "paltry" amounts of $25.00 or 75.00 are on the line.

Just a thought; don't know either way whether the idea has anything to do with implementation of the fees.

[Edited 2008-08-21 19:11:13]

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4016 times:



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 6):
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
UA requiring you pay for food in Business Class,


This is totaly off topic but UA is NOT charging for meals in Business Class.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4012 times:



Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 13):
The 10,000 intra-state award is still something nobody else offers though, and is much welcomed.

The link seems to suggest it's 15,000 miles, not 10,000.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3971 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Enilria (Reply 17):
I guess I shouldn't have read this press release from ALPA...Did they change their minds or just poorly word their initial statement?

I can't speak for ALPA, but it does not affect, as they imply, business class passengers on trans-Atlantic:

Quoting Enilria (Reply 17):
by discontinuing complimentary meal service on many flights to and from Europe, affecting both economy and business class passengers.

Go to the source - United Airlines - or read the internal memo posted here in a thread on a.net.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3953 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
by discontinuing complimentary meal service on many flights to and from Europe, affecting both economy and business class passengers.

Go to the source - United Airlines - or read the internal memo posted here in a thread on a.net.

Will make it even easier for you....

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080821/aqth538.html?.v=13

F & J still have complimentary food served onboard.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6412 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

Wow, more propaganda from Enilria. Who would have guessed it?  Yeah sure

Frontier is doing what it can to remain solvent. End of story. If you don't like, don't fly them.



Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3891 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23):
Wow, more propaganda from Enilria.

The UA lovers are saying I'm being anti-United by saying this move is not as bad as United and the Frontier fans are saying I'm anti-Frontier, but we all know I'm anti-Southwest so whose propaganda (i.e. what airline) am I advocating? Oh well...


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3881 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 24):
The UA lovers are saying I'm being anti-United by saying this move is not as bad as United and the Frontier fans are saying I'm anti-Frontier, but we all know I'm anti-Southwest so whose propaganda (i.e. what airline) am I advocating? Oh well...

Jane Garvey's?



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAirportGuy1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Enilria is obviously an Air Canada employee who just HATES Sean Menke. Look at his posting history.

here

Quoting Enilria:
As for the CCP. I'm sorry, but this is largely Menke's fault. I said yesterday that Potter, who was far from perfect, would at least have been on Bloomberg and such re-assuring the market and telling people how much money the AA shutdown was bringing in. The stock drifted down to zero in the absence of any real effort by Menke to convince Wall Street in public that the company was not in trouble. The company is now in Ch11 because the stock went to $1.50 and scared the CCP. I am very disappointed in Menke

and here

Quoting Enilria:
I want them to survive. I do think the new leadership that brought them into Ch11 is inept. I would like to see them replaced and I think that has to happen for them to have any chance to survive.

Did Sean eat your maple cookies from the company break room or something, you hoser?

Canada must be proud of you...


25 F9Animal : Amen. If this guy would just stick to catering, maybe he might be successful in life. I am just tired of his constant barrage of negative F9 threads.
26 JpetekYXMD80 : I could care less if you are anti-United, but its obvious you are 'anti-informed' based on your incorrect comments about the new J food policy.
27 PlanesNTrains : Here's an idea: Why don't YOU provide a list, seeing as you are the one with the problem. If you are going to throw around claims, at least have the
28 Enilria : "Jane Garvey (Jane Famiano) was head of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration from 1997 to 2002." OK I'll take that? I have no problem. Here are t
29 Enilria : BTW, this came out today in court. These are the bills from the legal and consulting weasels sucking at F9 in Ch11...perhaps the Teamsters should star
30 A330323X : Seabury is worth every penny. They and Bruce Lakefield (who hired them) are the sole reasons that US got out of bankruptcy #2, engineering the outsid
31 LAXintl : Leeches? hardly Do you have any idea what these companies and persons do for Frontier? All were retained by F9 to provide the carrier very specific n
32 United1 : Yes she was, she was also one of the most sought after people by news networks after a crash/incident as she tended to jump (more like pole vault) to
33 Enilria : I said that it wasn't a criticism of Frontier, just that Ch11 requires this type of thing. If they weren't in Ch11 they wouldn't have those expenses.
34 Mariner : And more than just legal knowledge. You buy them because of who they know and because they are trusted by those others. mariner
35 PlanesNTrains : What are you talking about? If you say that Frontier is doing something other carriers aren't, then someone point at several example of carriers who
36 Post contains links AirportGuy1971 : from here Yeah. Your anti-Southwest bias is SO showing...
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