A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10039 times:
United is dropping its Los Angeles-Newark and Los Angeles-Philadelphia services.
Even with the Star feed on both sides of the LAX-PHL route and soon to be on the LAX-EWR route, the transcons just aren't profitable at these fuel prices, especially with US/CO offering more frequencies for the business traveler.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10032 times:
Well, given the fact that UA has a relatively small, international gateway type hub at LAX, and star partner US has its headquarters hub at PHL and new star alliance partner CO has a large hub at EWR, it makes sense that they'd be given the flights... part of the whole synergy thing. Don't be surprised if ORD-PHL or DEN-PHL goes all UA at some point, or something like that.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Dj1986 From Luxembourg, joined Apr 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9973 times:
Sad to see UA drop the LAX-PHL I have flown that twice this year in First. I have always given UA priority on that route over US because UA Domestic First Class Service is just much better compared to US Airways.
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9944 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1): star partner US has its headquarters hub at PHL
US's headquarters are at PHX. US's largest hub is at CLT.
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1): Don't be surprised if ORD-PHL or DEN-PHL goes all UA at some point, or something like that.
Well UA is discontinuing DEN-CLT, and US has discontinued DEN-PIT.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9925 times:
I guess I'm not terribly surprised that they're dropping LAX-PHL, but I can say that I'm definitely pretty surprised at LAX-EWR. Really? Is CO that overbearing with their hub at EWR that UA feels that it can't compete? I'd consider EWR to be a pretty significant component of serving the New York area, and it's therefore rather surprising to me that they'd drop the route.
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9925 times:
Quoting Avek00 (Reply 4): UA and CO will NOT have antitrust immunity for domestic flying.
Of course not, but they can codeshare on routes where they do not directly compete. I'm sure, for example, that the UA* code will be on US's LAX-PHL flights in the very near future, allowing UA to keep a presence for its FFs in a market that was unprofitable for UA to fly with its own metal. (Actually, it's probably unprofitable for US to fly with its own metal, but that's neither here nor there. )
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9895 times:
Changes are eff Nov 1st.
Really no huge loss in the big scheme of things as these flights were merely 1x daily.
With UA parking the 90 737s, you will see much more such non-core flying disappear with retrenchment and focus to provide connectivity over hubs for such destinations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9873 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): Really no huge loss in the big scheme of things as these flights were merely 1x daily.
LAX-PHL was 2x daily.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Pgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
LAX-EWR is completely gone, but they're calling LAX-PHL a seasonal cut that will come back next summer. We'll see about that. (This was from some snippet that I saw, but I can't find it now. Sorry)
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9758 times:
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9724 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11): 1x daily in the schedule that leads up to November.
Oh, I wasn't looking that far ahead. It's 2x in the current (August) schedule, and it's been 2x for quite some time.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9673 times:
Quoting A330323X (Reply 12): Oh, I wasn't looking that far ahead. It's 2x in the current (August) schedule, and it's been 2x for quite some time.
Fall schedule kicks in on Sept 2nd where its 1x.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9661 times:
Quoting Dj1986 (Reply 3): Sad to see UA drop the LAX-PHL I have flown that twice this year in First. I have always given UA priority on that route over US because UA Domestic First Class Service is just much better compared to US Airways.
I don't know what to think of UA @ LAX anymore. Now the only choice to PHL is US. And US is horrendous.
Was UA doing that badly on the LAX-PHL route?
Is there any chance WN will reinstate LAX-PHL-LAX now that UA is out of the market?
In regards to EWR, CO can't be beat. They are the best and offer a good choice of departures. I have to wonder how long AA will stay on that route too, but now that UA has axed it they will probably keep it around.
What's new on the UA chopping block for LAX: BOS? MCO? I could definitely see MCO going bye bye.
Thoughts?
Luckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1587 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9579 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 6): Is CO that overbearing with their hub at EWR that UA feels that it can't compete?
Why compete with a partner? CO has infinitely more frequencies to and from EWR. Just stick your code on the flight and use your metal elsewhere considering 100 planes are about to be sent to the boneyard.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9553 times:
I suppose a good clue as to why the EWR (and likely PHL) get the axe can be seen in the WSJ article about United's p.s. service and its great success a few weeks back.
Per John Tague EVP & COO
That means that the United p.s. flight on a 757 generated about 20% more revenue per trip than the United 757s flying between Newark and Los Angeles, even though Newark flights had many more seats. Mr. Tague says the two p.s. markets last year had "much stronger margins than the rest of our domestic system."
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6364 posts, RR: 34 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9510 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1): UA has a relatively small, international gateway type hub at LAX
It's hardly even that with the upcoming changes -- if I'm not mistaken, their international presence at LAX will dwindle to daily flights to NRT, SYD, LHR, and SJD, along with a weekly flight to MEX.
Domestic mainline service is going to be quite limited as well, with service declining by November to:
BWI - 1 daily
BOS - 1 daily
ORD - 8 daily
DEN - 9 daily
HNL - 3 daily
OGG - 3 daily
KOA - 1 daily
LAS - 5 daily
LIH - 1 daily
MSY - 2 daily
JFK - 6 daily
MCO - 1 daily
SFO - 14 daily
IAD - 7 daily
66 daily mainline departures -- of which 38 are to other United hubs, if I'm not mistaken. I'm a bit shocked that with all the other cuts, LAS, MSY, and BWI have kept their service on United to LAX (MCO I think is supported by the Disney contract).
Eghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9404 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 18): Domestic mainline service is going to be quite limited as well
LAX has always had limited operations for all airlines. It has never been anybody's hub.
For the year 2007 as a baseline:
United - 96 departures per day - 11.5% of total operations
American - 90 departures per day - 10.6% of total operations
Southwest - 113 departures per day - 13.48% of total operations
These figures do not include American Eagle and Skywest.
OH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1428 posts, RR: 22 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9402 times:
I believe I read somewhere in SkyNet yesterday that LAX-PHL is only a seasonal discontinuation, and will be back next spring/summer... so it's not a full discontinuance of service.
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9404 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 18): It's hardly even that with the upcoming changes
Um your forgetting UAX. It has something like 100 daily departures still in Nov of which an increasing number are on the 3-class ExPlus CRJ700s.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6364 posts, RR: 34 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9242 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21): At the end of the day, I would hardly call a station with ~170 daily flights as being "small".
As hubs go, that's pretty small. It makes CVG -- even after the next round of cuts -- look big. It's not much better than Delta's most recent failed attempt at a LAX focus city.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21): Um your forgetting UAX. It has something like 100 daily departures still in Nov of which an increasing number are on the 3-class ExPlus CRJ700s.
Uh yeah, the majority of the UAX departures are on the Brasilia, and maybe a dozen are on CRJ-700's with ExPlus? Whoop-de-doo.
JEdward From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9223 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 6): I guess I'm not terribly surprised that they're dropping LAX-PHL, but I can say that I'm definitely pretty surprised at LAX-EWR. Really? Is CO that overbearing with their hub at EWR that UA feels that it can't compete? I'd consider EWR to be a pretty significant component of serving the New York area, and it's therefore rather surprising to me that they'd drop the route.
UA's running 1 flight today from LAX-EWR, CO's running 7. Therefore I'll hazard a guess and suggest CO can offer a stronger product (schedule wise) on the LAX-EWR sector.
That said, UA will also run 6 flights today LAX-JFK via ps while CO is pulling out of JFK completely.
My take on it that UA decided one red-eye flight does not justify it's existence into the EWR (and arguably the greater NYC area) when a competitor is running 7 flights on the same sector and an additional 6 flights are run into the same metro area, albeit a different airport.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich. --S.C.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6364 posts, RR: 34 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9141 times:
Quoting JEdward (Reply 23): That said, UA will also run 6 flights today LAX-JFK via ps while CO is pulling out of JFK completely.
That comparison doesn't exactly work, though, given that CO serves an airport in the same borough as JFK that sees higher yields. And all of CO's hubs (save GUM) are within the LGA perimeter. You can bet money that UA would move p.s. from LFK to LGA if they could.
Quoting JEdward (Reply 23): My take on it that UA decided one red-eye flight does not justify it's existence into the EWR (and arguably the greater NYC area) when a competitor is running 7 flights on the same sector and an additional 6 flights are run into the same metro area, albeit a different airport.
Even though EWR and JFK are in the same metro area, they are for most practical purposes different markets. Very few people in New Jersey would make the long trip to JFK, and few in Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island, or the Bronx would travel to EWR. They do share some traffic from Manhattan and perhaps Westchester/the Hudson Valley.
25 United1: Most of those EMB-120 flights are short hops around SoCal that make no sence to operate with an RJ. About a third of UAXs departures out of LAX on th
26 Tommy767: I just saw this on the UA schedules today. The UA flight to EWR was pointless. One 1x a day, early morning departure from EWR and red-eye departure fr
27 LAXintl: Well United's 170 departures at LAX, are not far from its ops at SFO which will be just around 200 total departures this winter. Additionally its imp
28 COERJ145: BOS is still 2 daily with 752s for November according to united.com. BOS departures at 8am and 6PM, LAX departures at 8am and 11PM.
30 PSA727: Maybe this will have a positive affect by thinning out the crowds at their gate area in Terminal 6 at LAX. That place can be a nightmare during the ev
31 ScottB: I looked at a round-trip from Nov. 7 to Nov. 10 (Friday & Monday since these are typically high-demand days with full schedules). One non-stop in eac
32 LAXintl: No it wont. Airtran, Sun Country, Frontier and Spirit are moving into T-6 starting in September, and having looked at the gate plot, its looks very t
33 COERJ145: Just checked it. For a BOS-LAX-BOS trip departing dec 3rd returning december 14th there are two flights each way. BOS-LAX are on 752s, LAX-BOS is 1 7
34 ScottB: Not on united.com. One 757-200 each way. Not on Sabre either (by way of Travelocity).
35 WorldTraveler: The real benefit in all of this is not CO but AA who now has the reputation of having the most robust transcon schedule among the US airlines. Transco
36 Jfk777: With Continental joining the Star Alliance why would United fly LAX to Newark or Phladelphia ? UAL can find better uses for the A320's used on those f
37 Cory6188: Yeah, that definitely makes sense...it's pretty hard to offer comprehensive service to your passengers when there's only one flight a day. Although t
38 LAXintl: Oh here we go --- another "Delta will rule LAX" pitch I would says its virtually unlikely United would walk away from its rotunda T-6 gates for the f
40 Gilesdavies: Makes sense UA are dropping LAX-PHL! Is still flown with an A319? I flew UA PHL-LAX back in 2005, on a connecting US flight from the UK... We was orig
41 N62NA: I remember hearing everytime the U.S. Congress criticized the alliances as cutting competition, the airline CEOs would fire back, "No, we'll continue
42 Kaitak744: Are all of the ~100 UAX flights at Terminal 8? Also, with just 66 daily flights, + 1 daily LHR, 1 daily SYD, and 1 daily NRT, can United move all of i
43 LAXintl: Yes In theory if schedules are changed yes. UA runs some banks (early AM, noon, late evening) at LAX that requires the T-6 gates. And as mentioned pr
44 Kaitak744: The reason why I ask, is that with scheduling downturns now, if T6 could be partly vacated, there could be some much needed refurbishment of the term
45 Avek00: 1. They're large markets. 2. The carriers cannot engage in immunized cooperation/revenue sharing on purely domestic itineraries, so there is incentiv
46 CALMSP: no, we wont see. of course they dont..........the others fly COEX or CO Connection!!
47 Commavia: No, not everybody, but almost. Anecdotal, I know, but of all the people (lots) I know in North Jersey and Staten Island, every single one - with only
48 LAXintl: And whom would pay for it without an airline there? The last work done in T-6 was by UA on the mid/late 90s as part of its FIS construction. I dont s
49 FLYjoe: That's something... within the last few years, there were four airlines in the LAX-PHL market (US, UA, WN, F9). Now in a few months, just one.
50 United1: I dont know where you are getting the bit about AA just now getting that reputation out of LAX as AA has always flown more transcon flights out of LA
51 AirlineAddict: Would UA ever consider allowing other airlines to use the FIS facilities? I imagine UA could charge a premium so that airlines could avoid TBIT. Of c
52 Tommy767: Not me. I'm AA gold and live in both New Jersey and LA. I have no loyalty to CO at all. I'd rather fly DL or AA above CO.
53 B752OS: I just looked on ual.com and saw that on december 6 there is one flight BOS-LAX and on december 14 there is 2 x daily LAX-BOS. I hope this flight sta
54 LAXintl: I suppose it could happen, however, UA has not shown any willingness of that the last 10 years with others in T-6 or 7. For instance CO which long ti
55 UAopsMGR: Sad to see. A lot has changed in the two years I've been gone from UA at LAX, not to mention Intl service which disappeared while I was there and the
57 LACA773: Also VS was in T6 for a time (even if it was short back in the late 80s or early 90s with their 742s. In regards to UA and the FIS facilities, UA sho
58 LAXintl: VS was in T-7 and used gate 74 between 90-93, way before T-6/7 had a customs facility.
59 Kohflot: I wonder if anyone (with a lower cost structure) would be interested in starting the market. Maybe WN moves back in if oil keeps going lower? Or how
60 ContinentalEWR: Not surprised, since UA's presence in the NY/NJ area has been cut so drastically, but it does bear mentioning that UA had at one point a significant o
61 Usairways85: PHL-LAX has seen a rather significant decrease in flights over the past 2-3 years. Discontinued WN-2x day UA-3x day (just recently it went down to 2 a
62 Crownvic: Ahhhh the old days, as a kid growing up in Philly back in the 70's I used to love watching United 88 one of a few DC-10s operating in and out of PHL a
64 Phllax: I hope that the cut in LAX-PHL is seasonal, and for this winter only. While their 2 flights weren't as convenient as the 4 US offers, at least it gave
65 MAH4546: Virgin is moving very, very slowly and has more important markets to cover by next summer than Philadelphia. While it might bump it up the list, next
66 WorldTraveler: the topic is about LAX and that is what my count is based on.
67 United1: Then why would you say that AA is just now getting the reputation of being the largest trans con carrier out of LAX? AA generally always has had that
69 JFK787NYC: Uhhhh I do not know what your talking about. I live in Brooklyn and it takes me maybe 5-7mins more to drive to EWR then to JFK. The only minus is the
70 Humberside: What frequency is this currently running at?
72 Corinthians: I'm curious how you get to JFK from Brooklyn to make it only 5-7 minutes less than it takes for you to get to EWR. As for cheaper fares out of EWR, i
73 Crownvic: Sometimes I do not even know what I am talking about! We actually had DC-10's on UAL 5 times a day to ORD and daily to DEN. I ned some sleep!
74 WA707atMSP: Prior to deregulation, UA was the biggest airline at EWR, and was (IIRC) the only airline with a "banjo" of its own. It's interesting that UA and AA
75 Luckyone: You are most likely correct. With the new relationship with CO why on earth would UA divest some of its most needed assets? Without the international
76 ChrisNH: I'm not sure I ever recall AA flying a DC-10 nonstop between PHL and Boston, but I sure do recall them using the 747 on BOS-LAX flights in the 'high
77 Yellowtail: NO..another DL will rule the world pitch! Hey...WT ..how much does DL pay you to cheerlead?
78 WA707atMSP: The flight is listed in AA's September, 1977 system timetable. In Sep 77, AA had just 1x DC-10 / day nonstop between BOS and LAX. BOS could not suppo
79 ChrisNH: Very interesting! I never knew they flew the 747 between Boston and Bermuda, but I know that they did between Boston and Los Angeles. I collected tim
80 Philly65: I am sure Virgin America has their eye on EWR & PHL. Just a matter of time before you see both routes in their network. I heard UAL considers LAX more
81 LAXintl: I'm not sure what you mean with this. If you mean LA is becoming a more Latin America focused market, UA certainly is not taking advantage of this dr
82 Philly65: I have nothing to base this on other than a comment from someone at UAL's WHQ. They have the numbers, I don't. The comment was the traffic is there b
83 Luckyone: Asking out of pure ignorance here, but is it possible that due to LAX's position at the top of the O&D market list and less than desirable geographic
84 LACA773: What do you mean by ethnic? I don't understand where you are trying to go with this and how it involves UA eliminating PHL & EWR from LAX in regards
85 Philly65: Like I said I don't have the numbers. What my contact at UAL was stating is that a large share of the traffic are ethnic travelers (Mexican, Asian, e
86 AirNZ: You have some strange notions, in this and a certain other thread. Are you now saying that UA is no longer an international carrier? Then why, or exa
87 LAXintl: A little update -- The LAX-PHL drop has been rescinded and is back on the schedule Nov 2nd onwards indefinitely. From what I gather has something to d
88 MaverickM11: DL is actually smaller at LAX in terms of ASMs than it was before "the surge" that was supposed to create a hub/hold onto gates/not really create a h
89 Platinumfoota: I know load factor has little to do with these cuts. Just flew LAX-BWI-LAX and i just got on. LAX-PHL was oversold. Every night PHL does pretty good i
90 STT757: Hey I just got back from Maui (trip report to follow), have not visited A-net for while so I'm jumping back in here. Add to that list BOS, SAN. CO res
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