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Gulfstream Airlines And Florida Routes  
User currently offlineNjdevilsin03 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 731 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

I know Gulfstream pulled out of GNV and with all the delta intra-fl services vanishing. anyone thinkg 3M would ever start service to MLB, DAB, Ocala, PIE? Any comments?


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86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 4877 times:

It's always possible. DL pulling out of Florida intra-state routes opens the door to fill a need and somebody will answer with at least a few routes. AA is always a possibility but they run AT7s out of MIA...too large for some markets. The 19 seaters of 3M would probably be a good fit for MIA-DAB and MIA-OCF. There is enough demand to warrant 2X daily to both cities, allowing for good connections southbound and to Europe. MLB is possible, depending on whether AA decides to return. PIE doesn't appear to be very likely though. However the price of oil will have to fall a bit before we see service like this.

User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Is it possible that Day Jet might be a better solution for many people ? Although I have read they are going through some troubled times right now.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4752 times:



Quoting Njdevilsin03 (Thread starter):
I know Gulfstream pulled out of GNV and with all the delta intra-fl services vanishing. anyone thinkg 3M would ever start service to MLB, DAB, Ocala, PIE? Any comments?

3M needs to go away all together....would love to see another carrier in Florida. There was a rumor about Airtran with Dash 8's out of MCO, that would be great! Or Eagle, anybody but 3M!



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 693 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4709 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 3):
3M needs to go away all together....would love to see another carrier in Florida.


I disagree. With DL pulling out, they serve a real need. I have flown them several times and they go to places where no one else does.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4697 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 3):
3M needs to go away all together...., anybody but 3M!

Why so bitter about 3M?


User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4627 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 5):
Why so bitter about 3M?

Let's just say I know this Airline pretty well. And I wonder if the general flying public knew their operating procedures, I'm not so sure that they would be so comfortable.



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4035 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4620 times:
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Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 6):

can you be a little more specific????



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4611 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 3):
3M needs to go away all together....would love to see another carrier in Florida. There was a rumor about Airtran with Dash 8's out of MCO, that would be great! Or Eagle, anybody but 3M!



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 6):
Let's just say I know this Airline pretty well. And I wonder if the general flying public knew their operating procedures, I'm not so sure that they would be so comfortable.

Broken record with DUALRATED and 3M. He hates them as much as I enjoy flying them down to EYW. Conjurs up the Jimmy Buffett lifestyle for me.


User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4594 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 7):
can you be a little more specific????

1) Management with a history,(Eastern)

2) FO' with nill experience who had to buy the right seat ($20,000 for 250 hrs and maybe a job)

3) The general way they do business.

Just to start with.

Don't get me wrong 3M has some fantastic people working there, and some Talented maintenance workers and crewmembers as well. It's the management that should be looked at, how they treat people, and how there actions reflect on our industry both in the past (Eastern) and present (Pilot seat for sale)

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 4):
I disagree. With DL pulling out, they serve a real need. I have flown them several times and they go to places where no one else does.

I missed this, You are absolutely correct, this is what I would like to see change. Competition to start with would be great.



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4035 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4574 times:
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Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
It's the management that should be looked at,

i know them pretty well, and we work hand in hand, they are a great group of guys.........



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
1) Management with a history,(Eastern)

Explain this part a little if you would.

Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
3) The general way they do business.

And this. It's just a bit vague.

Sounds like you're chewing some sour grapes about 3M ... could it be that you got turned down (or let go) by them? Hmmm? Maybe?

[Edited 2008-08-23 19:23:29]

User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 693 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4560 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
1) Management with a history,(Eastern)

2) FO' with nill experience who had to buy the right seat ($20,000 for 250 hrs and maybe a job)

3) The general way they do business.

Well, as a good faith disclosure, I am ex-Eastern, and I worked with a lot of great people. There were also some problem children,as in any company, but most were great, and I enjoyed every day I went to work there. Many of those same people went on to many other carriers, where they have been quite successful. Also, keep in mind that Eastern lasted as long as it did because a lot of great people did an outstanding job in spite of the terrible problems we faced.

The FO program at 3M has been a great opportunity for quite a few young pilots. I know a number of them, since I am a Professor of Aviation in South Florida, and a number of our students have finished their commercial-multi and then went to Gulfstream. From what I am told from those students, their training program is rigorous. They have had a great experience, flying in an interesting environment, and learning a great deal, both in knowledge and with improving their flying skills. Many have moved up to Captain at Gulfstream, and later gone on to other carriers and are now flying heavy jets.

As far as the way they do business, they fly turboprops to a lot of small destinations in Florida and the Bahamas, and whenever I have flown them, which is a number of times, they have been both professional and safe in my observations and conversations with them.

To me they serve a double need. First, they provide an important service here in Florida-Bahamas, and they also provide a great opportunity for young pilots to get started.


User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4494 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
Sounds like you're chewing some sour grapes about 3M ... could it be that you got turned down (or let go) by them? Hmmm? Maybe?

Nice guess but ...No. You asked me "why bitter" and when you don't hear what you want to hear you assume, and you are WRONG. Next guess?

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 8):
Broken record with DUALRATED and 3M. He hates them as much as I enjoy flying them down to EYW. Conjurs up the Jimmy Buffett lifestyle for me.

It's my say, just like your entitled to yours. and I will repeat it as long as someone might read it.

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 12):
There were also some problem children,

My point in this case. Guess where they are now?

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 12):
From what I am told from those students, their training program is rigorous.

Thats a joke because the training program is for sale $20,000 a pop.

Furthermore what does this do to our industry? What does it do to pilot wages when you have pilots that will not only work for free, they'll will pay for the right seat. how can that be good??? How can that be safe? How can that be right?



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4491 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 13):
Nice guess but ...No. You asked me "why bitter" and when you don't hear what you want to hear you assume, and you are WRONG. Next guess?

OK ... So I ask you AGAIN to explain two of your prior statements:

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
1) Management with a history,(Eastern)

Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 9):
3) The general way they do business.


Let's hear it.


User currently offlineBanks170 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

3M is a joke. Don't get me wrong they r a great group of people but there whole operation is just so messed up. Like today, they have only two Flts from PBI on sat and they can't even get those out even close to ontime. They ended up canceling the PBI-MHH and only flying the PBI-EYW flt. The one aircraft that does both flights had a maint. Problem. So now they play games with everyone and tell everyone false info. They say the plane will be there at 1 and it shows up at 10. No one has any clue whats going on. First they say they r bring up a plane from MIA after it comes from Cuba. Then 3hrs latter with no plane there. They say they r trying to get one from FLL. They just can't give a straight answer. But there not as bad as Bahamas Air. They r a whole other story.

Ryan


User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4410 times:



Quoting Banks170 (Reply 15):
The one aircraft that does both flights had a maint. Problem. So now they play games with everyone and tell everyone false info. They say the plane will be there at 1 and it shows up at 10. No one has any clue whats going on.

Sounds like a typical day at (insert any legacy carrier here) !!  duck 


User currently offlineJohnclipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

I remember interviewing with them in MIA in 1994. They flew me down to MIA from DAB on a Beech 99C. Took forever. The day of my interview, the FAA was "touring their facility" and Lisa Stark//ABC News was also there doing a piece about consumer flying. Needless to say, they kept me at the terminal (in the downstairs gate area of Terminal F) for at least 4 hours until the FAA went away. The only thing that impressed me was that I got to go into their headquarters which was the old Pan Am MIA headquarters (complete with stone Pan Am meetball logo on the walls inside). Return flight was MIA-MCO-DAB on a Beech 1900. Overall, not a very impressive experience.

User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 693 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4338 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 13):
Thats a joke because the training program is for sale $20,000 a pop.

Get over it. It is both legal and FAA certified.


User currently offlineUSXguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1040 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Are you inferring to Tom Cooper being a Scab? The former owner of Chalks is a "scab" too, both of them former Eastern pilots.

Well, the industry has changed. Cooper only owns Gulfstream Air charters now and has a vested interest in the Academy. And Jim Canfalone no longer owns Chalks.



xx
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4289 times:



Quoting Kellmark (Reply 18):
Get over it. It is both legal and FAA certified.

It's that type of attitude thats destroying the US Airline industry plain and simple.

Quoting USXguy (Reply 19):
Well, the industry has changed. Cooper only owns Gulfstream Air charters now and has a vested interest in the Academy.

The academy is the airline, no academy no airline.



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

DUALRATED, I agree with you 110%. Most on this site are not pilots so they have no idea how that side of the industry works.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4035 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4266 times:
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Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 20):
It's that type of attitude thats destroying the US Airline industry plain and simple.

no, typically its those who are disgruntled agents/pilots and hold some sort of grudge against management employees, and others who have advanced farther than others.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineBagpipes From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 83 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

I dont think 3m will serve PIE when they have a HUGE operation in TPA. PIE already has a airline that flys to EYW, RSW. Sea Coast airlines if im not mistaken


Fly Song Jets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4235 times:



Quoting Mu2 (Reply 21):
DUALRATED, I agree with you 110%. Most on this site are not pilots so they have no idea how that side of the industry works.

Correct. We are passangers and do not care, as long as......

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 18):
Get over it. It is both legal and FAA certified.

Every flight I take on them has been on-time, the staff has been very nice and the experience has been just as I expected. Every time. And that translates into about 6 times a year from TPA to EYW and return.

Bottom line: don't like them. Don't fly them.


25 DUALRATED : remember all of this on your next flight should the Captain (instructor) become incapacitated and your 10 hr I.T., just out of I.O.E. First Officer i
26 CALMSP : pretty bold statement saying that the FO has no ability to fly an airplane. Have you brought up your concerns to CBS 4 or NBC 6?? Or how about the FA
27 DUALRATED : There is an idea.
28 USXguy : actually they have to fly the Aztec a bit before they even get to touch a 1900... so that's pretty "off the wall" to infer the FO doesn't know the bas
29 Kellmark : No problem, they should be able to get it on the ground, in spite of your profound judgment that they can't. You obviously have a major grudge agains
30 USXguy : ugh i didn't finish my post, damn drinkin on a sunday afternoon! What I meant was, there are fully capable non-pilots who could probably *safely* land
31 DUALRATED : Keep drinking! No academy, no co pilot, no airline. Because the other regionals do not charge $20,000 for a crewmembers seat. Another guess, and anot
32 TVNWZ : When I went down there in June, the co-pilot flew the plane. I am still here.
33 Cubsrule : Plenty of other professions (including medicine) charge a hefty fee for training. Why is this any different?
34 Mu2 : How would all of you non-pilots like it if someone stepped in front of you at the interview line for your dream job and said they will do it for free?
35 Cubsrule : Isn't that the free market at its best?
36 MCOflyer : Proof please. I want proof as well. What do the other regionals charge? I have had three trips on them and all three were very good needless to say.
37 TVNWZ : He stepped in front of you because you decided not to go the way he did. You made your choice, he made his. I would feel like maybe I should have don
38 Kellmark : Poor Dualrated. If everybody does not follow your exact model then they are "destroying" the industry. OMIGOD. Someone might get in front of you on t
39 MCOflyer : See my IM. Dualrated, hes right on everything. Hunter
40 Cubsrule : Perhaps you could tell those of us who are less enlightened why it's bad to pay for your training...
41 Mu2 : It's not paying for training. It's paying for someone's job
42 Bok269 : It's quite simple: they don't. It's a job. Virtually every other airline out there expects you to EARN it and don't use their crewmembers as a source
43 USXguy : Um.. the GAC guys only get like 100 hours in the 1900.... and then they have to reinterview to be hired on full time as an FO for 3M..... how is that
44 Bok269 : Comair (now Delta Connection) Academy provides pre-airline training. I.e., PPL, Instrument rating, multi rating, commercial, etc. Gulfstream essentia
45 Cubsrule : But I don't see why that's a bad thing. Among professions, flying is a little bit unique. Law firms don't pay for law school. Hospitals don't pay for
46 DUALRATED : Bull! Since when? Try 250hrs for $20,000, then maybe you get to stay on....maybe. Thats totaly buying your job. Comair never made such a promise, And
47 TheGreatChecko : You are correct. But what if that law firm or hospital asked you to pay X so you could have the "honor" of building experience there. You've already
48 Imapilotaz : Here's the thing. Most airline require a training agreement that requires certain amount of time at the airline, otherwise you are required to pay the
49 TDubJFK : If you're a pilot, as your screen name implies, you should be intelligent enough not to use an offensive term like 'retarded' the way you did. Those
50 TheGreatChecko : Correct, but you aren't paying that money out of pocket unless you decide to leave before the contract is up. This is also independent of the hiring
51 TheGreatChecko : The management with history DR is referring to... He's not being specific because it would open a whole can or worms and lead to a thread drift. Let's
52 DUALRATED : Assume, and be wrong. not even close Of course it can't be for the reasons I stated, and that I want to protect my fellow pilots livelihoods by expos
53 TheGreatChecko : Man, you must have had something really special in that luggage... Checko
54 Cubsrule : Resident salaries at some prestigious programs (Harvard is a particularly egregious offender) are so low that I might argue that that's exactly what
55 TheGreatChecko : What's the difference between that and being an FO at a regional airline (pay rarely startes above $20-$25K)? Why should someone pay so they can then
56 Cubsrule : When was 3M's last fatal accident? I've asked once but no one has responded.
57 TheGreatChecko : So it only matters if people die? They haven't had any that I can find. However, that's immaterial to the argument. If a number of experienced pilots
58 DUALRATED : What does that have to do with the price of apples?
59 Cubsrule : Well, there are 2 arguments against this program: safety and fairness. If 3M isn't crashing planes, we don't have any evidence that the program is un
60 DUALRATED : You should work for the FAA. I know i'm stupid but..... HUH? Why pay pilots at all.....with all those free pilots the quality of pilots will rise for
61 Cubsrule : The 9E crash in Missouri a few years back is a perfect example. Those guys wouldn't have gotten in the situation in the first place if the airplane h
62 TheGreatChecko : So if a doctor isn't killing people or a lawyer causing innocent people to go to jail, its okay? A fatal accident is usually caused by a long chain o
63 Cubsrule : It depends. Do we have metrics short of dead people, innocent folks in jail, or crashed airplanes by which we can measure competence? If so, maybe we
64 TheGreatChecko : Funny you mention that crash... First, it was caused by stupidity. By two pilots pushing an aircraft beyond its limitations then screwing up the engi
65 USXguy : Gulfstream has never had a fatal accident. they've had a few Beeches land without one of the gears down, but I think that's about it.
66 TheGreatChecko : Thanks to the inherent safety of the aviation system, no (and thanks to resistance from doctors and lawyers, we have very little data on their mistak
67 Cubsrule : I agree. Unfortunately, crashes are the best metric we have because aviation safety isn't very transparent-- and notwithstanding your cheap shot at d
68 Hatbutton : I'm not trying to get into the middle of this argument because I think both sides have strong points. However, with all that has been said it seems th
69 DUALRATED : No... apparently you can by putting more inexperienced pilots in the cockpit! ((Reply 60) Nothing wrong with being a Flight instructor, and thats par
70 Imapilotaz : This actually isnt that bad having a 250 hour pilot in the right seat of a 1900, no matter if they bought into it or not. You can make an argument tha
71 DUALRATED : I knew this would come up at some point, look at what it takes to become a commercial pilot in China, (academically) or the EU for that matter. To ob
72 Cubsrule : Why is the concept of "buying jobs" so bothersome to you?
73 TVNWZ : Not a legitimate statistic? It is THE legitimate statistic. It is the point.
74 Post contains images USXguy : sorry, i've been drinkin again. what was this thread about again?? I'm starting to think I'd rather go watch this @#*#@$
75 Imapilotaz : This is what I want to know as well. What is wrong with paying for the priveledge? Its not like they through any moron into the right seat. You have
76 Post contains links Fairwarning : There doesn't need to be a fatal accident for an airline to be considered 'unsafe.' Here's an article about Gulfstream that I saw a few months ago in
77 Cubsrule : How else do we quantify "unsafe?"
78 Post contains links Bok269 : The F/O attended the academy (and had 761 TT at the time of the crash). The Captain came from GIA as well, but it appears that he was a street Captai
79 DUALRATED : The latest in a long line similar stories . I feel for the guy in this story, who is the captain any way? the person with the four stripe epaulets on
80 Toltommy : Let me guess, Gulfstream is non union, right? I think the real issue is showing up here..... Especially since the founders were the dreaded "ex-Easte
81 Cubsrule : For the third time, I agree, but I'm waiting for you to suggest an alternative. If you can provide an alternative method (besides "take my word for i
82 Bok269 : GIA's Pilot group is represented by IBT local 747. I'm not talking about standards of aviation (which one can also offered are lower when the mins ar
83 Cubsrule : Why should pilots (or any other workgroup) make more than the market rate for the work they do?
84 Bok269 : When places like GIA offer a 30000 pfj/pft deal, they effectively lower the market rate. That's why pilots and the unions that represent them are aga
85 DUALRATED : This is the point some just don't want to understand
86 AC320 : This thread has gone horribly off-topic and will be closed. There seems to be a trend developing where topics involving Gulfstream veer off topic with
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