Ezra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 455 posts, RR: 2 Posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 815 times:
Hi All,
I noticed on United's route map that they serve at least four major Latin American destinations from Miami: Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Rio, and Caracas. This is surprising to me, as I always believed that AA "owned" Latin American ops from MIA. How does UA do on these routes? Do they have a lot of feed into MIA, or are there enough O/D pax to justify the overlap with AA? MIA seems like an odd place for United to operate from as it is far removed from its hub structure.
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 738 times:
There is a lot of domestic feed into MIA on the United System. Most of those flights come from other hubs. At United, all of our South American destinations are served from MIA, so if you need to go to South America, you have a very very good chance of being routed through MIA.
Klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1786 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 722 times:
These routes were acquired by UA from PA some years ago when PA operated them out of MIA. AA does pretty much "own" MIA, but these routes are strong enough and UA is big enough that their hubs provide good feed as ILUV767.
After the PA latin route acquisition, UA rivaled AA to South America. Since then however, CO and DL have come along and pushed UA to the role of a minor player in the region.
Yes, "all of them" are served from MIA. Unfortunately, compared with their competitors, "all of them" doesn't really mean that many. No BOG, LIM, UIO, etc. etc.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 692 times:
DL does not serve that many Latin destinations, but the ones they do, all out of MIA, are the big ones (Sao Paulo, Rio, Santiago, and Caracas are the big ones). A new 28-gate United hub is being built at MIA. It will be for United domestic and international flights and StarAlliance partners. United has a "mini-hub" at MIA, that works sort of like Iberia's Miami hub. They fly passengers in for thier other major hubs(SFO, DEN, ORD, etc.; there are daily ORD and LAX flights on a 772) to all connect in MIA, the same way Iberia flies all it's passengers in Europe to MAD to connect to MIA were they connect to Latin destinations (Mexico and Central American only).
Chepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 5966 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 686 times:
Yes there is anyway sufficient O/D passenger traffis on the routes to Rio, Sao , Buenos Aires Santiago and Caracas . By the way Unitred a couple of years ago operated a SJU-MIA flight but they pushed out . I dont get it there is a big need for this flight as the moment were there loads bad on this flight?????
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Nickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1457 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 680 times:
UA also operated to LIM up until a couple of years ago. CO and DL really will surpass UA in the region when they start their EZE flights later this year.
UA does have some non-hub feed flights into MIA: ATL, LGA to name but a few.
Flyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1691 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 668 times:
DL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2039 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 645 times:
I don't think UA is significantly bigger than DL to South America maybe only just if even.
As of April 1, 2001 DL has the following nonstops to South America:
ATL-EZE--MD11
ATL-GIG--767-300ER
ATL-GRU--MD11
ATL-SCL--767-300ER
ATL-LIM--757
ATL-CCS--737-800
ATL-BOG--757
And if you consider Panama part of South America (some do)
ATL-PTY--737-800
That's quite a lot of lift. What nonstops and how many does UA offer to South America?
Ishky15 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 717 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 640 times:
United flies the following routes to South America, all daily:
Miami-Buenos Aires 777-200
New York- Buenos Aires 767-300
Chicago-Buenos Aires-Montevideo 767-300
Miami-Rio de Janeiro 767-300
Chicago-Sao Paulo 767-300
New York-Sao Paulo-Rio de Janeiro 767-300
Miami-Sao Paulo 777-200
Miami-Santiago 767-300/777-200
Miami-Caracas Airbus 320
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 632 times:
It should be noted that UA's five MIA Latin routes are also the BIG FIVE. Sao Paulo, Rio, Caracas, Santiago, and Buenos Aires are the five big Latin destinations. Very popular routes with a lot of compietion. MIA-CCS alone is served with 8 dailies (and 69 weekly) on AA, LA, UA, VC, and VH. I always though of DL as a larger operater to LA, though. The big advantage that UA has is it's hub at MIA. As much as ATL and Delta and IAH and Continental try, no airport or airline will ever replace MIA and American as the Gateway to Latin America and the Airline of Latin America. I wonder if UA will expand thier operations when thier new Miami terminal is complete.
DL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2039 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 627 times:
What MIA terminal are you talking about? I have not heard that UA and their partners are building a new 28 gate terminal at MIA. Where on the airport is it being built? Is it going to be Concourse J?
Klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1786 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 619 times:
Mah4546, since UA has such a big advantage over DL and CO due to their "MIA hub," why did UA pull out of LIM? PTY (long ago)? That's an ingenious strategy, ignore an entire continent except for five cities and let the competition make inroads everywhere else.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 603 times:
DL, yes, it is Concourse J I believe. 28 gates. All will be used exclusively by United and Star Alliance partners, while the new 58 gate American Airlines/Iberia hub is for AA, Americna Eagle, IB, and OneWorld partners (although there probably won't be enough room for all OneWorld flights to depart from the AA terminal).
Klm UA pulled out of LIM and PTY because they grew too fast. You can't just say "Okay, we're starting a Latin hub in Miami, let's go". They expanded too fast for thier own good. They were not established in the Latin market like American Airlines, Iberia Airlines of Spain, and LanChile (which also serves routes to Ecuador and Peru from Miami, and they used to codeshare with QA on MIA-SCL-SYD, but I think that QA now does it only with AA on MIA-LAX-SYD). As time goes on, they can become an established airline to Latin America from MIA. Things take time, and any airline fan should know that.
Ezra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 455 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 591 times:
Doug From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 825 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 572 times:
DL,UA and CO will not overtake AA on the Latin and South American routes.CO is the 2nd major player but AA dominates the market.The United (and partners)concourse will be concourse J in Miami with 17 gates.
Dfw-man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 563 times:
NickofAtlanta says that CO and DL will surpass AA in the region,,,,,are you joking or what?How did you come up with that theory?AA has more flights to the region and carries more pax to the region than any other airline to Latin and South America.
Dfw-man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 555 times:
No problem,,,,just misinterpeted what you said NickofAtlanta.
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